Just finished reading Das Kapital

[iudas]

And it has won me over. More on this later.

[Amagi]

For Marx only the employers are the exploiters. What Marx entirely misses is the true enslaver of the people: Interest. We are in debt slavery mate, that´s the point Marx totally missed.
Please keep that in mind (and change your avatar plox lol. If I had that flag as a tattoo on my arm, I´d peel that skin off my body.)

Cheers.

[PacSubCom]

For Marx only the employers are the exploiters. What Marx entirely misses is the true enslaver of the people: Interest. We are in debt slavery mate, that´s the point Marx totally missed.

And who are those lenders? Capitalists. Enslaved to rich and powerful capitalists. Same old.

[intel]

What's the point of this thread? Couldn't you just hold it and wait until you'll shape your opinion? Or is Marx so awesome that it couldn't wait any longer?

Placeholder threads in D&D=/=cool.

For Marx only the employers are the exploiters. What Marx entirely misses is the true enslaver of the people: Interest.JEWS We are in jewish slavery mate, that´s the point Marx totally missed.

Fixed for ya

Please keep that in mind (and change your avatar plox lol. If I had that flag as a tattoo on my arm, I´d peel that skin off my body.)

Cheers.

If you were my... Oh, nevermind. Not worth it.

[xcorps]

"How do you tell a Communist? Well, it's someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It's someone who understands Marx and Lenin."
-Ronald Reagan

[Celsius]

Yes Marx is well and fine. But the Communist standards that have been placed involve the killings of over 145 million people.

[Dr. Croccer]

Yes Marx is well and fine. But the Communist standards that have been placed involve the killings of over 145 million people.

Marx wasn't personally responsible for that. That's retarded. That's like saying that Voltaire's standards were responsible for Nicaragua, Vietnam and Iraq.

For Marx only the employers are the exploiters. What Marx entirely misses is the true enslaver of the people: Interest. We are in debt slavery mate, that´s the point Marx totally missed

[Jingles]

Marx wasn't personally responsible for that. That's retarded. That's like saying that Voltaire's standards were responsible for Nicaragua, Vietnam and Iraq.

"The Marxist analysis has got nothing to do with what happened in Stalin's Russia: it's like blaming Jesus Christ for the Inquisition in Spain."

-Tony Benn

[Copperknickers II]

Yes Marx is well and fine. But the Communist standards that have been placed involve the killings of over 145 million people.

No, Stalin and Chairman Mao and Pol Pot and Kim Sung-Il have. If Communism has killed anyone, then Karl Marx must be the most evil man in history. With Jesus and Darwin not far behind.

[Alkarin]

Yes Marx is well and fine. But the Communist standards that have been placed involve the killings of over 145 million people.

and Capitalism, the death of 4 billion and the current starvation of another 1 billion right now.



Sounds so much better than stalinismcommunism

[Celsius]

That must be why Communist economies fail after about 50 years. China has managed to keep their economy alive by shifting their economy closer to Free Market. So, you either believe in a fail system of government, or seriously believe thats how the world should work.

[Celsius]

Didnt say they were. But the people who founded communist governments claimed they were Marx government, which kills Marx's image completely.

[Dr. Croccer]

Didnt say they were. But the people who founded communist governments claimed they were Marx government, which kills Marx's image completely.

First off, there was never a Communist state. Communism is the state of classlessness, of total equality. This was never achieved. In Marxist rhetoric, they were in the stage of Marxist economic Socialism, i.e. heavy collectivisation and such. (different from ideological Socialism)

Again, that point is silly. If some religious fanatics killed people because they claimed that Jesus and God told them to do it, does that mean that Christianity immediately drops in popularity?

[CiviC]

First off, there was never a Communist state. Communism is the state of classlessness, of total equality. This was never achieved. In Marxist rhetoric, they were in the stage of Marxist economic Socialism, i.e. heavy collectivisation and such. (different from ideological Socialism)

Again, that point is silly. If some religious fanatics killed people because they claimed that Jesus and God told them to do it, does that mean that Christianity immediately drops in popularity?

Comunism goes against human nature, that's why it's a utopia. Since ever humans had the sense of property, property is also a fundamental human right. Without property people even became deshumanised. They loose the motivation to work and to progress, to bulid, to create, to invent, civilisation is even in danger.

Christianity is a utopia too and it never existed in reality in society. No society was truly Christian, meaning following strictly the path of Christian religion. From the beginings Christianity was adapted, corrupted, used, interpreted, etc. A truly Christian society would never work because as Comunism Christianity is against human nature and nobody can beat human nature.

You are born with the sense of property and selfishness from when you want to have that toy and not share it with anyone (just an example don't nitpick it).

[CiviC]

As someone from a country that put in practice the theories of Marx and Engels I will recomend to implement Comunism only to the worst enemies.

The excuse that Comunism is a good idea but badly implemented is not valid : a theory that got such catastrophic results in practice and failed every single time can't be a good theory.

[iudas]

I wonder how many of the posters here have actually read Das Kapital.

[intel]

I wonder how many of the posters here have actually read Das Kapital.

I wonder how many communists have actually read The Wealth of Nations.
I also wonder how many atheists have actually read The Holy Bible.

[★Bandiera Rossa☭]

I wonder how many communists have actually read The Wealth of Nations.
I also wonder how many atheists have actually read The Holy Bible.

Probably many more communists have read those works than the people who actually agree with the aforementioned works - I have read much Smith and Ricardo, the funny thing - They weren't conservative as many of their worshippers are, in fact Smith even advocated Social Programs and "Redistribution of Wealth" (What many now mistake for Socialism) through taxes as a way to balance out suffering caused by greed.

No, Stalin and Chairman Mao and Pol Pot and Kim Sung-Il have. If Communism has killed anyone, then Karl Marx must be the most evil man in history. With Jesus and Darwin not far behind.

With all due respect, Religion has likely killed many more than "Communism", that is unless you consider Jesus to have been a Communist as well.

For everyone who conflates Social Bonapartism with Socialism - read this http://www.marxists.org/archive/trot...vbet/index.htm

[Copperknickers II]

P
With all due respect, Religion has likely killed many more than "Communism", that is unless you consider Jesus to have been a Communist as well.

We're talking 200 million people killed by 'Communist' regimes. I seriously doubt Christianity has killed more than that directly, there were never more than a billion people on earth before the 19th Century, and slaughter and starvation on the scale of the Great Leap Forward or the Stalinist Purges was simply not possible before.

As for 'religion', Communism is one political ideology. If we were to say 'Political ideology vs Religion', we'd have to add in hundreds of Civil wars and non Communist Fascist regimes as well.

[43rdFoot]

We're talking 200 million people killed by 'Communist' regimes. I seriously doubt Christianity has killed more than that directly, there were never more than a billion people on earth before the 19th Century, and slaughter and starvation on the scale of the Great Leap Forward or the Stalinist Purges was simply not possible before.

As for 'religion', Communism is one political ideology. If we were to say 'Political ideology vs Religion', we'd have to add in hundreds of Civil wars and non Communist Fascist regimes as well.

Even if Christianity can be cited as the primary cause of the situations which resulted in those deaths, Chirsitianity has been around for much longer. If one was to do a comparison (which is silly, because there is nothing in either belief systems which advocates murder or killing) you would have to adjust for differences in time extant.



It is my belief that pure Communism is just as much a pipe dream as the self regulating market.