Does the First World Enjoy Patronising Africa?

[Exarch]

you've seen the usual CNN/BBC/CNBC feel-good pieces, where reporters pretend to show their saint-like concern for xyz african country's lack of food/water/law&order/human rights and it jsut seems so so so overdone and so ing phony i have to switch to National Geographic channel to stop myself from blowing chunks.

Now of course the media is but one aspect of a society but given what it represents i feel we ought to discuss whether or not we, who live in the first world can't help but secretly enjoy (with no small amount of schadenfreude) the those in africa are going through-kinda like war porn, but that's for another thread....

cuz doesnt it make you appreciate what we have here; running water, the opportunity to die from type II diabetes when those in africa would probably die from starvation or a bullet before that ever happens to them; and new pieces and docos seem to enjoy this mental circle jerk over 'oh look how morally superior we are cuz we're showing we give a ' when in reality it's a selfish exercise in mental :wub:: we get to feel superior to these 'dirty savages' who apparently cant get their in order "look how superior we are comapred to you when we're donating 1000 tonnes of wheat when you're so pathetic you need our manly help'

Does the first world derive some sort of enjoyment in patronising the plight of african countries?

[saxdude]

Ok so we should mock them and make fun of them for being thirld world countries right? lol, look at that dumb black dude that is starving and lost his arm, or should we ignore the problem completely?

[El Brujo]

If you've ever read the poem The White Man's Burden, by Kipling, that's basically what the West is doing.

[gambit]

Yes, for shame on the more modernized countries, giving aid like that. jerks.

And what the media "represents" is the medias own silly values.

[vecordia]

Yes, for shame on the more modernized countries, giving aid like that. jerks.
And what the media "represents" is the medias own silly values.

That's right.

Everyone who wants to help just helps, without damned politic or morals. We here in Poland have a proverb: "what eye sees not, the heart craves not" which nicely ilustrates not only poverty problems.

[Elfdude]

No I do not think the media is too concerned with Africa. I would assert the opposite.

The media skewing their stories towards body counts and pessimism is another thing all together.

[Niles Crane]

Yes.

[Oddsworm]

Patronise? i didnt even know we gave a damn. Remember rwanda?

[Arch-hereticK]

The west feels about Afrika the way Japan feels about whales.

[iudas]

Yes. The West enjoys pretending that less developed areas, such as Africa or even eastern Europe, are fundamentally inferior and have a totally different mindset so they can't possibly evolve. That is false. The West is every bit as evil and twisted as war-torn African countries. It's simply richer.

[Phier]

Yes. The West enjoys pretending that less developed areas, such as Africa or even eastern Europe, are fundamentally inferior and have a totally different mindset so they can't possibly evolve. That is false. The West is every bit as evil and twisted as war-torn African countries. It's simply richer.

With less threat of violent death, more freedom, a history of scientific progress, and incresing of human rights with each generation

[Elfdude]

With less threat of violent death, more freedom, a history of scientific progress, and incresing of human rights with each generation

There's scientific backing for the idea that mentally healthy people don't act immorally without desperation or the teaching from one who has experienced desperation.

Take away their desperation and you take away the incentive to be immoral. Makes me wonder if a society could function by encouraging morality rather than punishing immorality.

Also Africa was progressing much the same way as Europe in the middle ages and before. I'm not sure what happened to suddenly change that. It might be a mistake to attribute Europe's success to anything more than the theft of advanced eastern technologies and dumb luck.

[Copperknickers II]

Also Africa was progressing much the same way as Europe in the middle ages and before. I'm not sure what happened to suddenly change that.

That would be the invention of firearms. We invaded them, realised that we could easily defeat them, and so settled and enslaved them. Same with people in Australia and the Americas, and to a lesser extent India.

[basics]

" That would be the invention of firearms. We invaded them, realised that we could easily defeat them, and so settled and enslaved them. Same with people in Australia and the Americas, and to a lesser extent India."

Copperknickers II,

That is quite true but this ended some 60 years ago and not without leaving them with organised towns and cities governed by a civil service and them that took power. The towns and cities still stand but yet so do the mudhuts and slums that independence was supposed to eradicate.

Someone mentioned helping them to develope and someone else mentioned that we are exploiting them but I fail to see how one can exploit someone who has no job, no income, no schooling, no medicine and plenty of disease. We have given them, their governments, billions, yet unlike Asia, we don't see building of any sort, we don't see farming as we know it, the things one would expect.

The infrastructure has not changed perhaps with one exception, that being where oil has been found. But the basic infrastructure remains the same for the ordinary folk, any changes being in the hands of their rulers. And, we know that these men have a likeness for blaming the whites, and it suits them to do so to cover for their greed or inability to make things happen. The one thing that we do see is plenty of military.

[Poach]

It might be a mistake to attribute Europe's success to anything more than the theft of advanced eastern technologies and dumb luck.

How's about the Latin and Greek sources that also fuelled the renaissance? Or our uncanny ability to take almost any idea or invention and find a way of killing people with it?

If Europe thrived solely on theft of Eastern technologies and ideas, we'd be one step behind them to this day, which we are not.

[Copperknickers II]

If Europe thrived solely on theft of Eastern technologies and ideas, we'd be one step behind them to this day, which we are not.

Japan? Korea? India?

All are at the forefont of technology and science, Japan is probably more advanced than even America.

How's about the Latin and Greek sources that also fuelled the renaissance? Or our uncanny ability to take almost any idea or invention and find a way of killing people with it?

Hate to break it to you, but the Greeks stole a lot of their ideas from India, the Rennaissance was triggered as much by the Arabs as the Italians, and we all came from Africa.

[Cornelius Plautus]

Also Africa was progressing much the same way as Europe in the middle ages and before. I'm not sure what happened to suddenly change that. It might be a mistake to attribute Europe's success to anything more than the theft of advanced eastern technologies and dumb luck.

To say that the Europeans stole their ideas from civilizations like China is a grossly inaccurate statement.
Greek and Roman military technology was -for a while- better than that of the East, and Roman infantry tactics were the best of their time; in fact, it is likely that a Roman army headed by a competent commander could have vanquished any contemporary foe from anywhere. Roman battlefield medicine and hospitals were centuries ahead of their time, with centralized heating and special wings for specific diseases and injuries. While the Chinese concocted the first gunpowder, Europeans created the industry of gun-making and made the greatest weapons of all time. Additionally, their colonial tactics were brilliant. Cortes and Pizarro didn't conquer the Aztecs and Inca by 'dumb luck', as you say.

That said, European society hasn't only contributed to warfare.The philosophies classical scholars created were unique and still useful today. While some may argue that Africans invented 'democracy', the Roman Republic created its own unique form of bureaucracy without any knowledge of similar foreign philosophies, as did Greek states like Athens. Then, of course, there were the thinkers of the Renaissance like Da Vinci and Durer and enlightenment thinkers like Locke and Hobbes. European academics were just as brilliant as those of China or India.

[Elfdude]

To say that the Europeans stole their ideas from civilizations like China is a grossly inaccurate statement.

I didn't say ideas I said advanced technologies. Were the Romans to have met the Chinese in battle I'm sure the history books would be different considering Chinese chromium swords have little difficulty slicing through plywood and the art of war in china made Rome's discipline look like no discipline.

Greek and Roman military technology was -for a while- better than that of the East, and Roman infantry tactics were the best of their time; in fact, it is likely that a Roman army headed by a competent commander could have vanquished any contemporary foe from anywhere.

Proof? Both greeks and romans took what most cultures already had and simply established formations and manuevering as their primary method of success.

Roman battlefield medicine and hospitals were centuries ahead of their time, with centralized heating and special wings for specific diseases and injuries. While the Chinese concocted the first gunpowder, Europeans created the industry of gun-making and made the greatest weapons of all time.

As far as medical technology goes Chinese and Roman medical know how wasn't repeated till the golden age of Arabs. Rome lies in a temperate climate with little more than overcrowding causing disease. China lies in the tropics where disease and death should have been rampant but weren't. Considering Romans washed in oil and didn't steal soap from the Celts until much later, I would say China has them beat on sanitation for the masses.

Also, do you not know what a ship of the line is? It's a battleship with cannons. Yes the Chinese never improved past cannon technology but then again once they closed their borders they had little to fear for 500 years.

Additionally, their colonial tactics were brilliant. Cortes and Pizarro didn't conquer the Aztecs and Inca by 'dumb luck', as you say.

Impressive! Imagine defeating a culture which hadn't even invented the wheel. While in some aspects meso america might be considered advanced in many aspects they were extremely technologically wanting. I have to wonder what they did when their obsidian blades broke the first time they impacted metal.

That's assuming you find subjugation and extermination admirable.

That said, European society hasn't only contributed to warfare.The philosophies classical scholars created were unique and still useful today. While some may argue that Africans invented 'democracy', the Roman Republic created its own unique form of bureaucracy without any knowledge of similar foreign philosophies, as did Greek states like Athens. Then, of course, there were the thinkers of the Renaissance like Da Vinci and Durer and enlightenment thinkers like Locke and Hobbes. European academics were just as brilliant as those of China or India.

So? Philosophy is largely something your culture gets to do once it's successful.

[Ludicus]

With less threat of violent death, more freedom, a history of scientific progress, and incresing of human rights with each generation

And neo-colonialism.

[basics]

" Does the first world derive some sort of enjoyment in patronising the plight of african countries?"

Exarch,

I don't see how we can enjoy the plight of Africa because this must be the biggest question in the history of mankind why Africa is in such a mess, and the strangest thing of all is that there is no sign that it's going to get any better.

Oh I know that many will agree with the African that all their troubles begin with the whites but does history really say that? It is now some 60 odd years since they all got their independence yet rather than improving the lot of the people it appears that that lot is getting worse by the day.

Over the same time period we have seen the Asian economies boom as those in the African areas has got worse, so the question must be why? Billions have been poured into the place over the years and yet there is no visible difference in the lifestyles of this unfortunate people.