My ATI! Have Questions

[Top-Tier-Tech]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I haven't yet decided whether to go with 2 GTX480's in SLI or 2 5870's in crossfire so I thought I'd try an experiment.

I bought an XFX 4770 for my Internet Computer to see how ATI drivers work (installed v10.3). Here's what I've come across so far...

ATI drivers themselves offer no game setting customizations unlike Nvidia drivers (unless I'm missing something)

The card itself runs very cool, partly due to the fact that this is a dual slot 4770, most other brands were single slot cards.

I find the 3D tab confusing. What do those settings adjust? Like the AA and AF, most games have settings for this so why have the option in the drivers? I'd rather choose the AA and AF amount differently in different games, so should I select the box to "let the application decide"?

For games such as Mass Effect that have no AA settings with Nvidia I used Nhancer to override AA for that specific game, I was recommended to use ATI tray tools to do the same thing with ATI cards however when I launch ATI tray tools I get a message saying "Can not connect to low level driver. Please re-install ATI tray Tools under administration rights with UAC disabled". This is just a regular copy of Win 7 64bit, and UAC is not blocking it so is ATI tray tools incompatible with win 7 or what? EDIT: I looked at the readme and windows 7 is not in the supported list, is there some workaround I should try?

[Roman_Man#3]

Unless I am mistaken, you can use the 3D tab for override settings in game. If you select Use Application Settings, then it will do whatever the game tells it to do.

[Top-Tier-Tech]

Unless I am mistaken, you can use the 3D tab for override settings in game. If you select Use Application Settings, then it will do whatever the game tells it to do.

That's what I was thinking, problem is I use different amounts of AA and AF in different games so I don't want a universal override. That's where ATI tray tools comes in supposedly... if only I could use it.

[Roman_Man#3]

You'll have to set a profile for that, under options.

[Freddie]

I suggest you leave the settings as application controlled I really can't be bothered messing around in the driver menus just to get AA and AF working when those options are available in the game itself. So long as the drivers work, are stable and bring free performance improvements then I'm sold.

As for getting AA to work in Mass Effect I've read that with a couple of other games that suffer from the same lock out re-naming the .exe to UT3 does bypass the lockout.

Edit: Yep it looks like Mass Effect is a UT3.exe fix

Edit 2: If you want to setup profiles, open up CCC, make sure it's in advanced mode, on the top right click on Options, Profiles, Profile Manager.

If you still want to use ATT then you should read and install this, ATI tool tray won't work on Windows 7 64 bit because Wind7 needs digitally enforced drivers or something which prevents ATT from working, the link I posted should help you get around this.

[Top-Tier-Tech]

Edit 2: If you want to setup profiles, open up CCC, make sure it's in advanced mode, on the top right click on Options, Profiles, Profile Manager.

If you still want to use ATT then you should read and install this, ATI tool tray won't work on Windows 7 64 bit because Wind7 needs digitally enforced drivers or something which prevents ATT from working, the link I posted should help you get around this.

After experimentation... I was able to get ATT running if I choose to "run as administrator" the only problem is when I'd do that Norton Internet Security 2010 blocks the program claiming a security risk. If I disable NIS 2010 then ATT runs as long as it's selected to run as administrator, unfortunately I can't add the program to any exception list on NIS 2010 so running ATT means I have to manually disable PC security each and every time. Sigh.

ATI needs to get there hands out from under their butts and make a simple customized game profile just like Nvidia has. Granted you can create profiles with CCC but you have to manually switch between them unlike ATT which accomplishes this in the background.

Since the problem is my PC protection then it's not ATT's fault but I've never had NIS go and block anything else that it shouldn't after 2 years of use....



So my conclusions are... NVidia really does have better drivers (for the things I want to work). ATI cards run much cooler and quieter, Norton Internet Security hates ATT.

[Roman_Man#3]

delete

[Strelok]

Like the AA and AF, most games have settings for this so why have the option in the drivers? I'd rather choose the AA and AF amount differently in different games, so should I select the box to "let the application decide"?

Yes and it's for games that don't support AA/AF, or support a limited level of AA/AF, or for games that don't use native high-quality AF and you can force that.

ATI tool tray won't work on Windows 7 64 bit because Wind7 needs digitally enforced drivers or something which prevents ATT from working

W7x64 needs signed drivers. You either disable Driver Signature Enforcement each time you reboot/boot in the same F8 menu that you would select safe mode, or you use NGOHQ driver signature enforcement overrider (as you suggested and linked) to manually sign the ATT drivers. However, the latest ATT uses signed drivers on my system. If this doesn't work, it just needs administrative rights. To do this, just right-click the shortcut or the .exe itself and select Run as Administrator. To make it do this by default, right-click, select properties, select compatibility and tick "Run as Administrator" and click OK.

[Top-Tier-Tech]

However, the latest ATT uses signed drivers on my system. If this doesn't work, it just needs administrative rights. To do this, just right-click the shortcut or the .exe itself and select Run as Administrator. To make it do this by default, right-click, select properties, select compatibility and tick "Run as Administrator" and click OK.

This I have done and it did indeed work. Dumb NIS

[mrmouth]

My monitor can handle 75Hz, but something with the internal driver doesn't allow for it to be set that high. I have tried every 3rd party program, including the all powerful, powerstrip. The only thing that works is GeForce control panel, which of course allows you to set custom resolution and timings. It is a beautiful thing.

Everything about GeForce is a win, and is the only reason I am going back to Nvidia. It is so easy to win over the small amount of people like myself by simply progressing CCC. It is so warranted by now.


Why go with 2x5870's over the 5850? I mean I guess the price difference isn't that bad, but the fps gains with 2x5870 over 2x5850 are going to be unnoticeable. It is massive either way.

[Doono]

If your running an LCD/TFT type display you can pretty much ignore the refresh rates on LCD screens since they do not refresh in the same way old CRT monitors did.

[Strelok]

Refresh rates still affects input responsiveness which can hold importance for gamers. It can be actually quite noticeable even from 60HZ to 85HZ for example just moving the mouse cursor around.

[Doono]

Thats not refresh thats response time, refresh rates do not matter, they are only present to artifically lock graphics cards fps. If you can easily see the difference between 60fps and 85fps worry about it otherwise it's a meaningless statistic I can't so it does not bother me, response time is a far more important statistic in causing ghosting.

[Strelok]

Thats not refresh thats response time, refresh rates do not matter

I wasn't mentioning the response delay and I wasn't confusing the two in any way, shape or form, though. If you have a monitor that has two different refresh rates (preferably a 10-15HZ difference) and go onto the desktop of any OS you use you use, switch the refresh rate and move the mouse cursor around.

These things I have examined can affect input responsiveness:

Response delay
Refresh rate
FPS
VSync on/off
Triple Buffeirng on/off
N-Buffering level (commonly called Pre-Rendered Frames or Flip Qeue Size)
Mouse polling rate & DPI
.....other things (?)

they are only present to artifically lock graphics cards fps.If you can easily see the difference between 60fps and 85fps worry about it otherwise it's a meaningless statistics

I mentioned between 60HZ and 85HZ, regardless of the FPS and hence I mentioned to try it in a 2D environment like the Windows desktop. However the point is not exactly seeing the difference. That is why I said to test it on the Windows desktop by moving the cursor around. Up the refresh rate if your monitor can do it and examine the difference in how the mouse cursor moves and responds. I have a friend who plays FPS games almost everyday and got a 120HZ monitor for this reason.

Anything above 40FPS typically can't be noticed by the human

Anything above 40FPS can also improve input responsiveness which is why you get people telling you that it "feels" different, regardless if your eye can see over 30FPS or not.

the only time you want higher refresh rate and higher FPS is when you're watching something in 3D.

Or you're playing a FPS game, or any other game for that matter.

[Top-Tier-Tech]

Or you're playing a FPS game, or any other game for that matter.

Anyone else here agree with him?

[Strelok]

Anyone else here agree with him?

Probably because no one else uses a 140HZ CRT monitor for gaming instead of my current LCD because I'm crazy about input responsiveness, mainly in the mouse. To which I always have VSync & tb off, n-buffering at 0, mouse polling rate overclocked as high as it can go, mouse acceleration completely disabled, mouse sensitivity at 1 and graphical settings at the lowest to get as close as to my refresh rate as possible.

I'm crazy, so ignore me. If anyone has a monitor with multiple (significant) refresh rate differences, switch between them and test out the difference with the mouse, so that you can become as psychopathic as me.

[♔KillZoneGB♔]

Anyone else here agree with him?

I do, Increasing your refresh rate does increase`s performance, But how much depends on your Hardware and what game you are playing.

If you have a old system that needs a boost

Pre-Rendered Frames 0 (also gives you better I/O response) 3+ will make the smoother,but may cause I/O Lag (Again this depends on your Hardware and what game you are playing)

Refresh rate 75+ check to see if your monitor can cope
(CRT will generate more heat, LCD will ok but check out Response time tho)

VSync Off

triple buffering off.

Hear say

In regards to Control Panel Settings, you must have the AA set to on/lowest (not off) In the game settings, else AA in the control panel will not run.

GTX 480 1.5GB (DX11, will need PCI-E V2 and above to work.)

My current system, i keep VSync on, triple buffering on.
(for games that keep a constant 75fps@75mhz refresh rate)
Also i add a touch of negative lod bias (-0.05) for sharper textures.(near)

FPS shooter(s) for online and games that demand the earth to run faster.
i would switch off Vsync and triple buffering off.
(better to pawn than be Pawned ey?)

[Top-Tier-Tech]

VSync Off

And there is the key. With Vsync on anything above 40 FPS is undetectable, as they are 40 identical frames in a single second.

GTX 480 1.5GB (DX11, will need PCI-E V2 and above to work.)

What's with the picture of the GTX480? You didn't say anything about it in your post...

[Top-Tier-Tech]

Anything above 40FPS typically can't be noticed by the human eye, the only time you want higher refresh rate and higher FPS is when you're watching something in 3D.

[mrmouth]

The monitor I have is an e-IPS, and ghosting is an issue. It is deigned primarily for more precise color reproduction. PQ is phenomenal, and gaming performance is solid, but you do sacrifice a bit for the PQ. Anyhow, custom timings really negate some of the drawbacks. But with Win7, some Dell monitors are a pain, and Geforce control panel is the only option.