How to defend artillery?

Every battle I play, end up the same, a couple of my cannons destroyed. When off campaigning in Spain, that's just not acceptable, but since I haven't got access to Horse Artillery yet (and I doubt that it would make that much of a difference, limbering taking time and all), I can't get them away from the front lines quickly enough.

With battles that have a sizeable hill, it's alright, but I am, and I always have been, a defensive commander, ever since Rome, and in Napoleon, that's a large problem when fighting straight up line-to-line battles without any hills at all.

Usually, I position all my artillery on one flank, with a unit of Line Infantry and my cavalry behind (Light Dragoons for the time being, as long as they're not used), and then the thin red line next to them, with two groups behind for reinforcing where needed, and my light foot somewhere off to the flank.

This often results in an early melee charge against my poor cannoneers (Cavalry usually isn't a problem due to the line infantry picking them to pieces with a volley), and voilá, a cannon or two lost.

I rarely use artillery the way most of you seem to use it - soften up the enemy for the charge, I mainly just point them in the direction of the enemy and let them go on until my superior line infantry can start shooting, so the loss of cannons isn't crippling to my war effort, but I've found that shooting at people often make them attack, which means that all I have to do is hold the line, step forward after the first enemy volley and turn on fire at will.

The real question is, as the topic states; how the hell do I protect my artillery without any terrain for them to fire from?

The AI tends to attack your flanks quite a bit in this game so I'm not surprised you are losing artillery when you position it there. Try arranging your formation manually and place each artillery unit between line infantry units.

Very simple line formation with 4 line infantry and 3 canons would look like this:
L-A-L-A-L-A-L

L = Line Infantry
A = Artillery

Other people might suggest a V formation, with the artillery in the center and infantry forming the V shape. But I'm not a fan of this as it limits your artillery's field of fire and leaves your flanks too vulnerable.

What I do, and I very seldom have my guns over run, is to have a line infantry on either flank of the batteries and a back up unit if they need a quick defense. Also when the enemy gets close you must switch to canister. Few units can stand up to the concentrated fires of all of that. It will even smash columns if they are foolish enough to come straight at the guns.

Guns all the way out on the flank are just inviting cavalry and skirmishers to flank them and then you need about 2 or three times their number to counter them.

Placing guns second or third from the end of the line is much safer and does not diminish their flanking effect significantly.

edit: if you are going to use the LALA I would do it more like L-A-LL-A-LL-A-L.

You need two infantry concentrating fires to keep the gun safe.

Actually I prefer something like this \__x__/


X=Artillery.
The lines are either line infantry or skirmishers.

It all depends on the way the enemy is deployed. Sometimes when the enemy has reinforcements you need to do this:

\_x_
......\

I use the LLALLALLALL formation most of the time with light infantry and cavalry on the outer wings. Once the enemy closes in my outer wings start attacking the flanks of the enemy. When the enemy starts to attack I have my guns fire cannister directly in to the ground in front or them. Everything foolish to stand there attempting to fire will be dead or routing. If you have researched barrage fire use it to your advance. Some quick volleys of cannister and voilà your enemy is gone.

Try something like this, as you notice 1 and 2 ranged zones overlap each other and create a kill zone for anyone foolish enough to go towards your cannons, also coz of the angle your cannons can spam canister shot to their lines with your lines being safe from friendly fire. If you happen to have howitzer or mortar you can deploy them behing your line and can reach other zones. Also AI seems to ignore cannon's threat and focus on lines instead. So you can safely use it against AI, on multiplayer thou it won't work probably.

PS: Sorry for big photo imageshack doesn't seem to work atm had to attach it from comp and use it's link to post it.

I tend to place my cannons in the center surrounded by infantry I have not lost a cannon yet. Also try to recruit a unit of Skirmishers and set stake line to protect the artillery. That deals with cavalry and when the infantry comes along switch to grapeshot and place the infantry on the flanks to speed up the process.

Also placing the cannons on any impression or slope will guarantee that you'll not kill any of your own men ( maybe not) also once you've researched Howitzers then you can always place the artillery in the back near your general.

[QUOTE=xxoverlordxx;7047418]I tend to place my cannons in the center surrounded by infantry I have not lost a cannon yet. Also try to recruit a unit of Skirmishers and set stake line to protect the artillery. That deals with cavalry and when the infantry comes along switch to grapeshot and place the infantry on the flanks to speed up the process.

Also placing the cannons on any impression or slope will guarantee that you'll not kill any of your own men ( maybe not) also once you've researched Howitzers then you can always place the artillery in the back near your general.[/QUOTE

When the battle starts leave the artlery wonruble. when the enemy is sticking your artilery with cavaliry use your ow to kill the invading enemy cavaliry. use the cavaliry to srike infantry when close

Sory, my englsh isnt so good im from east

Originally Posted by Travisk

Actually I prefer something like this \__x__/


X=Artillery.
The lines are either line infantry or skirmishers.

It all depends on the way the enemy is deployed. Sometimes when the enemy has reinforcements you need to do this:

\_x_
......\

I do something similar. This is quite an effective and flexible formation. It needs a good cavalry support though.

Thanks, mates. Just checked back here to see if anyone had replied, I'm about to fight the entire Spanish army (About 1800 man, though they've got another one at half the size hanging around somewhere) outside Madrid.

Good luck.

Go for the eyes Boo! Go for the eyes!

Originally Posted by Sparkywarky

Go for the eyes Boo! Go for the eyes!

That's totally ORSUM!! Ha! Damn what a blast from the past...

I usually just whack a unit of light infantry behind the artillery. They're good enough shots to break incoming cavalry without killing the gun crew.

One thing I really miss from MTW is an abandon guns option for crews - at Waterloo the British gunners survived the great French cavalry charge by running into the infantry squares and then dashed back out to fire the guns between charges - in NTW they pathetically try to defend themselves with those giant Q-tip things.

Try all of the following:

Voltigeurs lay stakes in front to prevent any cavalry charges

Chasseurs a Cheval ranked immediately behind to both fire over the heads of the gunners and sabre charge if the enemy get too close.

Line infantry on both flanks.

Grenadiers behind to bayonet charge if the Chasseurs and enfilading fire from line inf isn't working.

Used L L A L L L A L L during the battle of Madrid, and the second battle of Madrid (Not the exact measurements, just a concentration of troops in the middle, with two units at the flanks before the artillery), with Light Dragoons to handle enemy guns behind the line on one flank. Didn't have any light foot, which saddens me greatly, but I didn't have any room for them. Worked wonders, though, my artillery wasn't touched; not once.

From one thing to another; is it just me, or are light foot horrible against artillery? They constantly misfire (maybe ten in 90 muskets go off) and none of them hit their targets. Had three units of 'em shooting at ONE artillery crew, for a minute, and they only killed one guy. I had to beat them to death, the bally Spaniards!

The same thing happened in my Egypt campaign with chasseurs. Bug?

Originally Posted by Aklis

Used L L A L L L A L L during the battle of Madrid, and the second battle of Madrid (Not the exact measurements, just a concentration of troops in the middle, with two units at the flanks before the artillery), with Light Dragoons to handle enemy guns behind the line on one flank. Didn't have any light foot, which saddens me greatly, but I didn't have any room for them. Worked wonders, though, my artillery wasn't touched; not once.

From one thing to another; is it just me, or are light foot horrible against artillery? They constantly misfire (maybe ten in 90 muskets go off) and none of them hit their targets. Had three units of 'em shooting at ONE artillery crew, for a minute, and they only killed one guy. I had to beat them to death, the bally Spaniards!

The same thing happened in my Egypt campaign with chasseurs. Bug?

Is it possible that there was a hill involved? Sometimes they'll start shooting at the enemy even if a shallow rise in the ground ends up blocking their shots.

Originally Posted by Aklis

From one thing to another; is it just me, or are light foot horrible against artillery? They constantly misfire (maybe ten in 90 muskets go off) and none of them hit their targets. Had three units of 'em shooting at ONE artillery crew, for a minute, and they only killed one guy. I had to beat them to death, the bally Spaniards!

The same thing happened in my Egypt campaign with chasseurs. Bug?

I've had it happen enough with units of all types that I usually just charge in to melee now. Then again, I've had artillerymen fight off a general's unit in melee, and make cavalry break and rout while being chased down routing themselves.

From one thing to another; is it just me, or are light foot horrible against artillery? They constantly misfire (maybe ten in 90 muskets go off) and none of them hit their targets. Had three units of 'em shooting at ONE artillery crew, for a minute, and they only killed one guy. I had to beat them to death, the bally Spaniards!

The same thing happened in my Egypt campaign with chasseurs. Bug?[/QUOTE]

he is right iv seen this anoying bug a few times no hills in the way on flat ground in a field your lights start shooting at the art that is limbering up to try and leg it and the inf was hitting nothing 4 volleys and no deaths from art crew i too ended up just beating them to death after i got annoyed
this doesnt happen all the time but it does happen

Originally Posted by Clodius

One thing I really miss from MTW is an abandon guns option for crews

You can withdraw them when enemy charging, then cancel it by click withdraw again to man cannon.

Originally Posted by Clodius

Chasseurs a Cheval ranked immediately behind to both fire over the heads of the gunners and sabre charge if the enemy get too close.

I used to deploy Light Infantry behind cannon, but they happened to kill a few gunners. I am planning to use Chasseurs a Cheval for the job, as I heard their high position on horse prevent friendly fire casualties.