You know folks, when dealing with the holo thingy, I wonder sometimes what´s left of it.
In the beginning we were told, that each and every "concentration" camp was a death factory, and all of a sudden- they alter the story (as it was so often altered or when was the last time you heard of "electrocutions" (according to the soviets) or flaming pits (Elie Wiesel in his memoirs- the first book on the "holocaust" ("Night", unfortunately he forgot the gas chambers in that very first version of the "H").
I ask what´s left of the holo- thingy, as it shrinked by some 80%? 90%? by now. 90% of what you ask? Well, I refer to territory where that "best documented event in human history" is ought to have taken place.
Not too long ago, each and every of these camps was labelled a "death factory", but all of a sudden, revisionism came up and damaged that account badly. So badly, that the story- in order to be kept afloat, needed to be altered. The story was re-located behind the iron curtain (Poland), secure from revisionsm.
Or as Elie Wiesel put it in the first volume of his memoirs, All Rivers Run to the Sea (New York: Random House/Knopf, 1995, p. 74)[
"Let the gas chambers remain closed to prying eyes, and to imagination.".
Shown below is the widely-quoted 1960 letter by Dr. Martin Broszat, translated from the Hamburg weekly Die Zeit under the headline "Keine Vergasung in Dachau" ("No Gassing in Dachau"). It appeared in the German edition of August 19, 1960, and in the US edition of August 26, 1960 (p. 14). Dr. Broszat writes in the name of the prestigious Institute for Contemporary History (Institut fuer Zeitgeschichte). He later served as director of the Munich-based archive and research center, which is funded by German taxpayers.
Here is a translation of the complete text of Broszat's letter:
Neither in Dachau nor in Bergen-Belsen nor in Buchenwald were Jews or other prisoners gassed. The gas chamber in Dachau was never entirely finished or put "into operation." Hundreds of thousands of prisoners who perished in Dachau and other concentration camps in the Old Reich [that is, Germany in its borders of 1937] were victims, above all, of the catastrophic hygienic and provisioning conditions: according to official SS statistics, during the twelve months from July 1942 through June 1943 alone, 110,812 persons died of disease and hunger in all of the concentration camps of the Reich.
The mass extermination of the Jews by gassing began in 1941-1942 and occurred exclusively in a few facilities selected and equipped with appropriate technical installations, above all in the occupied Polish territory (but at no place in the Old Reich): in Auschwitz-Birkenau, in Sobibor on the Bug [river], in Treblinka, Chelmno and Belzec.
It is at those places, but not in Bergen-Belsen, Dachau or Buchenwald, where the mass extermination facilities, spoken of in your article [in an earlier issue of Die Zeit], were built and disguised as shower baths or disinfection rooms.
[...]
Dr. M. Broszat
Institute for Contemporary History
Munich
LOL WUT! But I´ve seen the pics!!! We all know them!
(warning graphic)
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Graphic, keep out!
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
]
Bergen Belsen:
Dachau:
[/IMG]
But, but! He is german, he must be a holo denying Nazi!!! then.
Not exactly, as his highest head nazi hunter, himself, Simon Wiesenthal (well known for his famous holo temple- errr, "research center"):
In a letter published in a January issue of The Stars and Stripes, a newspaper for US military service personnel, Simon Wiesenthal re-confirmed, in passing, that
"there were no extermination camps on German soil during the Second World War."
He made the identical statement in a letter published in the April 1975 issue of the British periodical Books and Bookmen.
Broszat and Wiesenthal must be anti-semite bastards! I wanna see it with my own eyes!
But, but, oh noes!!! Look what they put up in Dachau:
====================
You see me confused
But whats left of the "H" then? Poland? That very Poland with Ausschwitz as it´s flagship? The very same Ausschwitz that recently dropped it´s death toll from 4mio to 1.5mio dead (the earliest stated number was 9mio)?
To now a meager 1.5mio
You get my point? Let´s assume, I find Raul Hilberg´s (Chief Holo Expert, "The destruction of the european Jews", THE academical standart work on the "H") explanation for the complete and utter lack of any document prooving an exterimation campaign against the jews unsatisfactionary, namely
«But what began in 1941 was a process of destruction not planned in advance, not organized centrally by any agency. There was no blueprint and there was no budget for destructive measures. They were taken step by step, one step at a time. Thus came not so much a plan being carried out, but an incredible meeting of minds, a consensus-mind reading by a far-flung bureaucracy.»Raul Hilberg
and let´s say I find "Nazi telepathy" not satisfying enuff for my prying mind, then tell me:
What´s left of the Holocaust?
@ The one or the other in these forums should keep in mind:
I don't really understand what you are getting at. Are you saying the holocaust didn't happen becuase not all the camps had gas chambers? There are plenty of other ways to kill people without gas chambers. And surely that picture you posted of all the bodies is reason enough to believe such a thing happened?
I honestly don't understand how people can claim the holocaust didn't happen.
Some say, as the allied doctors who were ordered to collect war crimes for nuremberg, but didnt find any, that the dead died from typhus.
Dr. Larson's findings? In an 1980 newspaper interview he said: "What we've heard is that six million Jews were exterminated. Part of that is a hoax." [2] And what part was the hoax? Dr. Larson, who told his biographer that to his knowledge he "was the only forensic pathologist on duty in the entire European Theater" of Allied military operations, [3] confirmed that "never was a case of poison gas uncovered." [4]
Typhus, Not Poison Gas
If not by gassing, how did the unfortunate victims at Dachau, Buchenwald and Bergen-Belsen perish? Were they tortured to death or deliberately starved? The answers to these questions are known as well.
As Dr. Larson and other Allied medical men discovered, the chief cause of death at Dachau, Belsen and the other camps was disease, above all typhus, an old and terrible scourge of mankind that until recently flourished in places where populations were crowded together in circumstances where public health measures were unknown or had broken down. Such was the case in the overcrowded internment camps in Germany at war's end, where, despite such measures as systematic delousing, quarantine of the sick and cremation of the dead, the virtual collapse of Germany's food, transport, and public health systems led to catastrophe.
Sorry but this is starting to get annoying.
It was possible to prove the Shoa by the fact alone that the Nazis kept lists of the people they exterminated. Also, I've talked to people who witnessed the Third Reich and its politics. Also, I know people who talked to Holocaust survivors.
Last edited by athanaric; March 29, 2010 at 10:04 AM.
I honestly don't understand how people can claim the holocaust didn't happen.
They refuse to accept reality. The funniest thing is, most of the holocaust deniers don't like Jews and even want a second holocaust Yet you deny the first? It doesn't make much sense. But I guess I shouldn't expect it to.
Some say, as the allied doctors who were ordered to collect war crimes for nuremberg, but didnt find any, that the dead died from typhus.
Its common knowledge that many died of Typhus, particularly in Belsen. How did they get this Typhus? Becuase they were locked up in horrendously cramped, horrendously dirty condition. The Germans knew they had Typhus, but they didn't do anything to stop the spread of Typhus or cure it. They just carried on working the victims to death on extremely limited food rations (If they were lucky) as normal. That still amounts to genocide.
You know folks, when dealing with the holo thingy, I wonder sometimes what´s left of it.
In the beginning we were told, that each and every "concentration" camp was a death factory, and all of a sudden- they alter the story (as it was so often altered or when was the last time you heard of "electrocutions" (according to the soviets) or flaming pits (Elie Wiesel in his memoirs- the first book on the "holocaust" ("Night", unfortunately he forgot the gas chambers in that very first version of the "H").
I ask what´s left of the holo- thingy, as it shrinked by some 80%? 90%? by now. 90% of what you ask? Well, I refer to territory where that "best documented event in human history" is ought to have taken place.
Not too long ago, each and every of these camps was labelled a "death factory", but all of a sudden, revisionism came up and damaged that account badly. So badly, that the story- in order to be kept afloat, needed to be altered. The story was re-located behind the iron curtain (Poland), secure from revisionsm.
Or as Elie Wiesel put it in the first volume of his memoirs, All Rivers Run to the Sea (New York: Random House/Knopf, 1995, p. 74)[
Shown below is the widely-quoted 1960 letter by Dr. Martin Broszat, translated from the Hamburg weekly Die Zeit under the headline "Keine Vergasung in Dachau" ("No Gassing in Dachau"). It appeared in the German edition of August 19, 1960, and in the US edition of August 26, 1960 (p. 14). Dr. Broszat writes in the name of the prestigious Institute for Contemporary History (Institut fuer Zeitgeschichte). He later served as director of the Munich-based archive and research center, which is funded by German taxpayers.
Here is a translation of the complete text of Broszat's letter:
LOL WUT! But I´ve seen the pics!!! We all know them!
(warning graphic)
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Graphic, keep out!
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
]
Bergen Belsen:
Dachau:
[/IMG]
But, but! He is german, he must be a holo denying Nazi!!! then.
Not exactly, as his highest head nazi hunter, himself, Simon Wiesenthal (well known for his famous holo temple- errr, "research center"):
In a letter published in a January issue of The Stars and Stripes, a newspaper for US military service personnel, Simon Wiesenthal re-confirmed, in passing, that
"there were no extermination camps on German soil during the Second World War."
He made the identical statement in a letter published in the April 1975 issue of the British periodical Books and Bookmen.
Broszat and Wiesenthal must be anti-semite bastards! I wanna see it with my own eyes!
But, but, oh noes!!! Look what they put up in Dachau:
====================
You see me confused
But whats left of the "H" then? Poland? That very Poland with Ausschwitz as it´s flagship? The very same Ausschwitz that recently dropped it´s death toll from 4mio to 1.5mio dead (the earliest stated number was 9mio)?
To now a meager 1.5mio
You get my point? Let´s assume, I find Raul Hilberg´s (Chief Holo Expert, "The destruction of the european Jews", THE academical standart work on the "H") explanation for the complete and utter lack of any document prooving an exterimation campaign against the jews unsatisfactionary, namely
and let´s say I find "Nazi telepathy" not satisfying enuff for my prying mind, then tell me:
What´s left of the Holocaust?
@ The one or the other in these forums should keep in mind:
Welcome back Gojira, couldn't stay away for very long I see. Unfortunately nothing has changed in the past few months: we are still not idiots who will believe your , we still don't like, believe, or respect you, and you still have absolutely no facts or sources to back up your holocaust denial claims except ones that come from Stormfront and Rense.com, which is the equivalent of referencing the Bible to defend the Bible (if the Bible was a breeding ground of racists and neo-Nazis).
The only revisionists are the Holocaust deniers. The OP is rather like Nick Griffin complaining that Britain is becoming too Fascist and racist recently.
A new mobile phone tower went up in a town in the USA, and the local newspaper asked a number of people what they thought of it. Some said they noticed their cellphone reception was better. Some said they noticed the tower was affecting their health.
A local administrator was asked to comment. He nodded sagely, and said simply: "Wow. And think about how much more pronounced these effects will be once the tower is actually operational."
who the heck is this guy? Next he's gonna have evidence that Hitler didn't exist? Or better yet WWII was just a propaganda movie made by the Americans.
The OP is a typical example of neo thingy argumentation: Short after the War no one would have been able to give any true account of the extend of the Holocaust (not even the Nazi government would have been able to because in the last stages no working government existed to collect and review the documentations). As a result wild speculations were thrown around and everyone was guessing his own numbers.
After decades of scholary research on that topic (and the Iron Curtain certainly didn't make research easyer) we have a fairly reliable image of how Holocaust worked and aproximate numbers of its victims. Not surprsingly, a couple of the assumptions made short after the War, and sometimes entered history books in that form, proofed wrong. For example, the number of 6,000,000 has been proofen an exaggeration, the true number would have been around 4,000,000.
Such things are eagerly picked by the neonazis in order to use it as an argumentation that the Holocaust didn't happen. Of course, saying that killing 4,000,000 people is not holocaust, only 6,000,000 would have been, is laughable (or would be, if that's not about killed humans).
The same here: Having (non functionable) gas chambers installed in Dachau is not a proof that the Nazis didn't gas people in their camps, but a proof that they even thought of doing so inside Germany; most likely because they had not been able to kill enough people in the camps outside Germany (why something like Auschwitz was not installed inside Germany, I think, should be obvious).
The OP is a typical example of neo thingy argumentation: Short after the War no one would have been able to give any true account of the extend of the Holocaust (not even the Nazi government would have been able to because in the last stages no working government existed to collect and review the documentations). As a result wild speculations were thrown around and everyone was guessing his own numbers.
After decades of scholary research on that topic (and the Iron Curtain certainly didn't make research easyer) we have a fairly reliable image of how Holocaust worked and aproximate numbers of its victims. Not surprsingly, a couple of the assumptions made short after the War, and sometimes entered history books in that form, proofed wrong. For example, the number of 6,000,000 has been proofen an exaggeration, the true number would have been around 4,000,000.
Such things are eagerly picked by the neonazis in order to use it as an argumentation that the Holocaust didn't happen. Of course, saying that killing 4,000,000 people is not holocaust, only 6,000,000 would have been, is laughable (or would be, if that's not about killed humans).
The same here: Having (non functionable) gas chambers installed in Dachau is not a proof that the Nazis didn't gas people in their camps, but a proof that they even thought of doing so inside Germany; most likely because they had not been able to kill enough people in the camps outside Germany (why something like Auschwitz was not installed inside Germany, I think, should be obvious).
4 Milion People and not 6 Milion you have sources for that?
Note just for the TWcenter folks instead of typical ranting I would think that you could post something to prove the poster wrong with sources.
So tell me, what´s left of the Holocaust?
Originally Posted by Azog 150
Yet you deny the first? It doesn't make much sense. But I guess I shouldn't expect it to.
, we still don't like, believe, or respect you, and you still have absolutely no facts or sources to back up your holocaust denial claims except ones that come from Stormfront and Rense.com, which is the equivalent of referencing the Bible to defend the Bible (if the Bible was a breeding ground of racists and neo-Nazis).
