Who Could truly Challenge the power of the Roman Catholic Church ?????

[Kamonlas007]

In today's world i bet many of you have heard about these sex scandals and children loving priest , well i want to see if anyone here has a strong and non-debatable fact on who could absolutely challenge the power of the church due to these scandals, when these horrific crimes were reported, but the police didn't do anything, instead they helped the church cover it up, most commonly in Ireland.

It has about 400 years since in England, by King Henry VIII of England who challenge the full authority of the Catholic church and freed the English people from catholic tyranny, and because of that more Christians started challenging the churches power around Europe, which created many religious movements and gave the rise too many other protestant groups

[Boyar Son]

and have their secret assassins out to get you? no way man.

[Valiant Champion]

The Catholic Church is very powerful. Trying to bring it down through sex scandals is like pulling a hair off the arm of a giant.

Some really nasty opponents of the Church have found themselves tied to a rock and thrown to the bottom of a river or worse.

The Churchs connections to the mafia over the years are infamous.

Just watch the Godfather and you will see the evidence.

[Kamonlas007]

They will always thrive through fear, " Evil only prevails when good men do not act "

[John I Tzimisces]

It has about 400 years since in England, by King Henry VIII of England who challenge the full authority of the Catholic church and freed the English people from catholic tyranny, and because of that more Christians started challenging the churches power around Europe, which created many religious movements and gave the rise too many other protestant groups

What. The reformation started during Henry's reign and he took an active part in suppressing early protestants before he got pissed off at the church for not letting him have his umpteenth divorce.

[Kamonlas007]

What. The reformation started during Henry's reign and he took an active part in suppressing early protestants before he got pissed off at the church for not letting him have his umpteenth divorce.

I know that, but i was talking in the English perspective and that's not point of this thread

[Viking Prince]

Henry simply left the church and seized the church property and demanded the church leaders within England recognize him as the head of the English portion of the church. All of the official church heirachy but Fisher did so. But Henry did not challange the church in the way that Luther did by challanging doctrine -- the indulgances.

So what does the OP want? A Henry to simply seize church property and demand allegiance or a Luther? I would suggest a Luther to challange the church doctrine on priests to marry. Well, actually Luther did challenge the clergy regarding priests to marry -- http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/lutheranism/104744

[Argeus the Paladin]

Actually, OP, Henry VIII went against the church because he wanted another wife, which the Pope was against. His solution was "Screw you Pope I'm doing as I please" and the world gets the tale of Anne Boleyn.

[Turumba]

The legislative in every state could do it very easy. Why dont they do it? I have no idea. Its absurd.
In Germany we have to thank Bismarck:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kulturkampf I didnt read it in english and sometimes it differs a bit from the german article...

[Stavroforos]

Tax the Church.

[Gobbledigook]

Tax the Church.

God is a staunch conservative...and doesn't like taxes. Therefore god doesn't pay taxes.

[Argeus the Paladin]

Oi, many people would then pull the freedom of religion card. I know some will.

[Basil II the B.S]

not even Fascism was able to...

[Monarchist]

Never mind all this wimpy nonsense about "freedom of religion"; bring the Jesuits and the Crusaders back, if you please. Protestants need to know their place as a minority, and a rebellious one at that. Let them have their bastion in America, but no where else. Catholicism glorifies God in such great terms of beauty and joy that it moves far beyond the silly little Reform movements.

Anyway, why is this in the Mudpit? Surely, it belongs in Ethos, Mores et Monastica.

[Kamonlas007]

Never mind all this wimpy nonsense about "freedom of religion"; bring the Jesuits and the Crusaders back, if you please. Protestants need to know their place as a minority, and a rebellious one at that. Let them have their bastion in America, but no where else. Catholicism glorifies God in such great terms of beauty and joy that it moves far beyond the silly little Reform movements.

Anyway, why is this in the Mudpit? Surely, it belongs in Ethos, Mores et Monastica.

The Churches sex scandals are a current event

[Monarchist]

The Churches sex scandals are a current event

Yes, and? That has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. I'm sure the great number of immoral, hypocritical Protestant pastors would be involved in a scandal, too, if they were part of one gigantic Protestant Church hierarchy. We're all immoral, and you of all people must recognise it.

[Kamonlas007]

Yes, and? That has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. I'm sure the great number of immoral, hypocritical Protestant pastors would be involved in a scandal, too, if they were part of one gigantic Protestant Church hierarchy. We're all immoral, and you of all people must recognise it.

If we were all immoral the world would have fallen apart long ago, your faith with humanity doesn't seem very keen, and the fact you've just obligated something that we are not even talking about, the catholic church is the biggest, most powerful and oldest religious institution in the world, " Chivalry hasn't died in humanity yet " only a few people still believe in such things but not all of us have fallen from our belief

[Monarchist]

If we were all immoral the world would have fallen apart long ago, your faith with humanity doesn't seem very keen, and the fact you've just obligated something that we are not even talking about, the catholic church is the biggest, most powerful and oldest religious institution in the world, " Chivalry hasn't died in humanity yet " only a few people still believe in such things but not all of us have fallen from our belief

Sir, I believe it because I believe in God and the Fall of man. How can you have any faith in we humans, the most immoral creatures? We're the ones who disobeyed and disobey God constantly. What is the more immoral than that? The notion of Chivalry was created in Medieval times by the Catholic Church to halt the barbaric practices of the Nobility. It was a specifically Christian ploy to stem the tide of immoral butchery that had been going on for hundreds of years in the "Dark Ages", and such. We are all immoral, of course, but a sliver of God's beauty is still within us (it can't leave us entirely, after all), which allows us to just hold together. Still, societies and whole civilisations have collapsed many times. We don't always hold together, and we aren't good by our nature.

Don't think I say this in hatred. It's all in the interests of honesty and frankness.

Speak about yourself, willya?

I don't know what you mean?

[torongill]

We're all immoral, and you of all people must recognise it.

Speak about yourself, willya?

[danzig]

Yes, and? That has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. I'm sure the great number of immoral, hypocritical Protestant pastors would be involved in a scandal, too, if they were part of one gigantic Protestant Church hierarchy. We're all immoral, and you of all people must recognise it.

Yes but they are allowed to marry and have sex so their scandals tend to involve hookers or gay males....not young boys. A moral failing for sure but atleast the life of a young child isnt shattered by an "immoral" protestant pastor unlike his catholic counterpart.