Did Iraq Have The 4th Largest Amy in 1991?

[jankren]

I heard that during the First Gulf War, Iraq had the 4th largest army in the world. Is this true?

And also, if Iraq would stop at Kuwait and did not threaten to invade Saudi Arabia, would the US just turn a blind eye since they indirectly gave a green light to Iraq to do whatever in its conflict with Kuwait?

[antaeus]

it was pretty big

big means nothing when your pilots average less air time in a year than the americans average in a week. or when your tanks are based on 1960s soviet technology.. or when you fight using trenches and bunkers against the united states.

etc etc

it would have been much better for them to sack half a million soldiers and convert their wages into modern training techniques for their army and air time for their pilots. but they had dictators syndrome.. a need to have a statistically large fighting force to scare people into not fighting you.

[Tiberios]

Well according to wikipedia, then yes.

The Iran–Iraq War ended in 1988 with Iraq fielding the world's 4th largest military, with more than 70 army divisions, over 800 aircraft in the Iraqi Air Force,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_s...forces#History

[William the Bastard]

it would have been much better for them to sack half a million soldiers and convert their wages into modern training techniques for their army and air time for their pilots. but they had dictators syndrome.. a need to have a statistically large fighting force to scare people into not fighting you.

Too true, I would like to add though that the Iraqi army was never developed to cope with the onslaught of the Americans. It was an army created in particular to take on the Iranians and defend it's own borders. I would have thought Saddam (an ex ally of the US) believed that the US and the rest of the world wouldn't lift a finger after the Kuwait invasion. This was mainly due to him being kinda neccessary for keeping the balance of power in the ME.

[jankren]

Too true, I would like to add though that the Iraqi army was never developed to cope with the onslaught of the Americans. It was an army created in particular to take on the Iranians and defend it's own borders. I would have thought Saddam (an ex ally of the US) believed that the US and the rest of the world wouldn't lift a finger after the Kuwait invasion. This was mainly due to him being kinda neccessary for keeping the balance of power in the ME.

At that point Saddam was actually in a way still an ally of the US. He even asked the US ambassador prior to invading Kuwait. Too bad the idiot pushed his luck by threatening to gulp Saudi Arabia as well.

[Azog 150]

Yes. However, in terms or training and equipment is was pretty piss-poor. They had also got out of a long drawn out and horrendously bloody war with Iran not long before.

[Holger Danske]

Yes. However, in terms or training and equipment is was pretty piss-poor. They had also got out of a long drawn out and horrendously bloody war with Iran not long before.

Still no one expected that the Allied forces would steamroll the Iraqi military as hard as they did.

[Mik528]

Iraq had a large bad quality army. I heard that a few M1A1 (I believe it is) Abrams tanks took out the whole Iraqi National Guard (Their elite tank force) Iraq to USA back then was like.. A Musket to an AK-47

[Azog 150]

Iraq had a large bad quality army. I heard that a few M1A1 (I believe it is) Abrams tanks took out the whole Iraqi National Guard (Their elite tank force) Iraq to USA back then was like.. A Musket to an AK-47

Yeah, the M1A1 Abrams had its baptism of fire (By that I mean it destroyed all the Iraqi armour in its path. Only 20 of the 1,848 Abrams deployed were destroyed)

The Challenger 1 also had a great record from the war. 180 Challenger 1's were deployed to the Gulf. They managed to rack up over 300 confirmed kills against Iraqi armoured vehicles without suffering a single loss. They also got histories longest ever confirmed tank-to-tank kill at 5.1 km


This is not only testimony to the great quality of Western tanks, but also the poor quality of the Iraqi ones.

[intel]

There's vital difference between armies AFTER and BEFORE mobilisation. Nuff said, Iraq was AFTER mobilisation, while other armies-not.

[motiv-8]

This is not only testimony to the great quality of Western tanks, but also the poor quality of the Iraqi ones.

Someone will undoubtedly correct me if I'm wrong, but IIRC a portion of the Iraqi tanks had were fully capable of penetrating and/or disabling American M1's, the main issue was that their crews were laughably undertrained and ill-prepared.

[intel]

Someone will undoubtedly correct me if I'm wrong, but IIRC a portion of the Iraqi tanks had were fully capable of penetrating and/or disabling American M1's, the main issue was that their crews were laughably undertrained and ill-prepared.

What about poor night-fighting capacity, as well as T-72s poor accuracy (that's due to bad stabilizer and turret design) and "specific" placement of ammunition? Furthermore, Iraq tanks were stripped, "monkey" versions of soviet T-72s, without reactive armour whatsover.

[motiv-8]

What about poor night-fighting capacity, as well as T-72s poor accuracy (that's due to bad stabilizer and turret design) and "specific" placement of ammunition? Furthermore, Iraq tanks were stripped, "monkey" versions of soviet T-72s, without reactive armour whatsover.

Stripped-down you say? Did not know that.

[il padrino]

I think terrain played also an important role.Desert plains made Iraqi tanks easy pickings for the US Air Force and tanks.+other reasons stated before.

[Hounf of Culan]

They may have been able to defeat western armor, as evidenced by the slight coalition losses but the Iraqis were so poorly equipped and trained that even that firepower wasn't ever able to be effectively utilized. Even though the army was huge numerically it sucked hardcore, there are cases where Iraqi ground units would surrender to coalition helicopters rather than try and fight.

[il padrino]

Uhm,almost every Soviet equipment that was exported,were stripped-down versions.

[motiv-8]

That's certainly a good set-up for failure. I suppose we owe thanks to the Sovjets for that.

[Tiberios]

That's certainly a good set-up for failure. I suppose we owe thanks to the Sovjets for that.

As il padrino and others said, it was a downgraded version.

T-72M (Ob'yekt 172M-E2, Ob'yekt 172M-E3, Ob'yekt 172M-E4) - Soviet export version, similar to T-72A but with thinner armour and downgraded weapon sustems. Also built in Poland and ex-Czechoslovakia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-72_op...iants#Variants

[il padrino]

Well yeah,you're right.They were too afraid to expose their top secret stuff and export it.Add to that the bad conditions this equipment is being held in countries like Iraq and you'll get the picture.

[intel]

Yeah, but T-72s should have been used in large numbers, using overhelming numbers to defeat the opponent.