Some thoughts about factions' strength

**alwt1991** · March 28, 2010, 05:30 PM

I've tried playing SS6.2+RC4 for a few days and I do enjoy so many new features and the new graphics/models etc.However, i found that some factions are incredibly strong while some are incredibly weak,although this is historically true,shouldn't it be balanced since this is a game?

Sorry for complaining,I found most eastern european factions being too weak(I am focusing on the 2 Russians:Novgorod and Kievn).They already have poor economy when compared with France/Brit/HRE as they should have been,but their troops are so XXXX useless.They require the highest level of archery range to recruit their top-tier archers,and the so-called top-tier archers are way worse than the longbow of England,they can just slaughter militia and pikes,kill none knights or dismounted knights.At the same time,they got no pikes or halberd which means they have nothing to do against heavy knights.Their own cavalry is worse than any counterparts from western europe and horse archers are useless against heavily-armoured enemies.

I love to use anti-cavalry and lots of archers and I've tired of play England as they are just to easy.

Friendly comment pls.

**meese** · March 28, 2010, 06:21 PM

I play with the RR/RC compilation so I'm not sure how much of this applies to 6.2 by itself.

Novgorod definitely doesn't have a poor economy. If you take Reval, it and Novgorod should earn you enough to field a few armies. The best thing to do is to drop taxes from the beginning so that you've got a higher population.

Granted, Novgorod can't compete against western factions in terms of heavy infantry and heavy cavalry, but they have missile cavalry and their missile troops are by no means worse than the english longbowmen. Junior Druzhina are probably better than or at least equal to the normal longbowmen and yeoman archers if only because of their armour. The retinue longbowmen will outshoot them, but barely. Luchniki are just mass-produced archers - worse than junior druzhina but better than many other archers. Against heavily armoured troops, you'll either need to use the missile cavalry in hit-and-run attacks (which do work) or use your scandinavian guards at the right time so they attack when the enemy is tired. It should be a matter of isolating the heavily armoured troops because the enemy shouldn't have armies of them.

As to pikes and halberds, in RR/RC they're not availalbe for anybody until later and it'll simply be a matter of using senior miltia and scandanavian guard to kill enemy cavalry if you don't want to lose too many of your own. 'Course, this'll mean a lot of infantry deaths.

**alwt1991** · March 29, 2010, 05:48 AM

Originally Posted by meese

I play with the RR/RC compilation so I'm not sure how much of this applies to 6.2 by itself.

Novgorod definitely doesn't have a poor economy. If you take Reval, it and Novgorod should earn you enough to field a few armies. The best thing to do is to drop taxes from the beginning so that you've got a higher population.

Granted, Novgorod can't compete against western factions in terms of heavy infantry and heavy cavalry, but they have missile cavalry and their missile troops are by no means worse than the english longbowmen. Junior Druzhina are probably better than or at least equal to the normal longbowmen and yeoman archers if only because of their armour. The retinue longbowmen will outshoot them, but barely. Luchniki are just mass-produced archers - worse than junior druzhina but better than many other archers. Against heavily armoured troops, you'll either need to use the missile cavalry in hit-and-run attacks (which do work) or use your scandinavian guards at the right time so they attack when the enemy is tired. It should be a matter of isolating the heavily armoured troops because the enemy shouldn't have armies of them.

As to pikes and halberds, in RR/RC they're not availalbe for anybody until later and it'll simply be a matter of using senior miltia and scandanavian guard to kill enemy cavalry if you don't want to lose too many of your own. 'Course, this'll mean a lot of infantry deaths.

thx for the comment,but it seems that i am playing a different version ,i don't see any unit named Junior Druzhina or Luchniki

**Caesar Clivus** · March 29, 2010, 05:55 AM

Originally Posted by alwt1991

thx for the comment,but it seems that i am playing a different version ,i don't see any unit named Junior Druzhina or Luchniki

As Meese said, he is playing with the RR/RC submod which changes the rosters of Novgorod and Kievan Rus.

**Caesar Clivus** · March 28, 2010, 06:30 PM

You'll have to forgive me as it's been a LONG time since I've used the default Novgorod and Kievan Rus rosters.

You have to learn how to use each faction's strengths. Novgorod has a LOT of AP units. Dismounted Druzhina, Dismounted Boyar Sons and Berdiche axemen all carry AP axes. And Druzhina cavalry's secondary weapon is also an AP axe which can be very handy against western cavalry. In addition to this, Boyar Sons cavalry have both AP javelins AND an AP axe, very handy for flanking armoured enemies.

Kiev has less AP capable units. Their Druzhina have swords, not axes but they do get Scandinavian axemen and berdiche militia. Their only javelin unit is on foot, unlike Novgorod. But they do get heavy spearmen in the form of Kievan Palace Guard, very useful for holding the line. Also, after the gunpowder event, Kiev also gets mounted Cossack Musketeers, which can be used to wreak havoc on armoured foes before retreating out of harms way.

Use upgraded spearmen/Varangian spearmen/Kievan Palace Guard to hold the line and flank with berdiche/scandinavian axemen.

With Novgorod, use Boyar Sons to flank enemy cavalry. Their AP javelins will make short work of armoured foes. Kiev only gets infantry javelinmen but they can still be useful to flank the enemy line and fire into their rear.

Check out this excellent guide to the Rus'ian factions written by Meese: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=331248

Oh, and at the risk of self-promotion, you may wish to check out the Battle for the Baltic 2 submod. It gives both Novgorod and Kievan Rus new and more historically accurate rosters

**Gogolometro** · March 29, 2010, 04:03 AM

One thing, how much time will travel a russian general to France/HRE? Ideea is Eastern Europe is closer to asia, altaic region so their rooster is maded to counter them not gendarmes and imperial armys.