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Thread: The Myth That Germany Triggered WW2

  1. #121

    Default Re: The Myth That Germany Triggered WW2

    A good discussion on the holo-thingy can be found here *Click*

    In this thread I will step back from that topic, as I dont want to ruin my thread =)


    On the "Nazi"- issue, I wanna bring some interesting stuff for thought which I came across in a really free forums, where reasonable discussions are possible:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    As today's economic crisis continues, it should be useful to look at just how well, or badly, Hitler and Nazi Germany handled the world depression in the 1930's. The following chart appears in Burton Folsom's excellent new book: New Deal or Raw Deal? on page 243.



    The chart speaks for itself. One can see that in 1932, the year before Hitler and Roosevelt came to power, Germany's unemployment rate was at 30.1% and America's was at 24.9%. But within just five years, Germany's unemployment rate was reduced to only 4.6% (1937) and dropped even further to only 2.1% a year later. By contrast, FDR in 1937 still had 13.2% unemployment which actually rose to 19.8% a year later. Hitler was the clear unmatched winner in terms of economic management. No doubt, the fiendish Nazis must have been in league with the devil himself to pull off this economic miracle which is unmatched in all of human history. America was, and still is, a vast country with vast resources whereas Germany was a small country with coal as its only resource. Germany had been defeated in a terrible war which America won and to whom the world was deeply in debt financially. Germany was the target of a worldwide Jewish economic boycott with no gold reserves whereas America had plenty of everything.

    Can America bring itself to ever admit that it might learn something, anything at all, from the Nazis to deal with the mess America is in in today? Of course, not! The "holocaust" will continue to blind America to real economic solutions and so, indirectly, it will continue to pay a monumental price for the holocaust mytho-mania which it has embraced. The Jews will run America--and they will run the country even deeper into the ground than they already have. There is some real poetic justice there.
    http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php...t=unemployment



    In his highly influential Origins of the Second World War (1961), British historian A.J.P. Taylor similarly gave the Nazis credit for creating widespread prosperity, concluding,

    "The Nazi secret was not armament production; it was freedom from the then orthodox principles of economics. Government spending provided all the happy effects of mild inflation; while political dictatorship, with its destruction of trade unions and rigorous exchange control, prevented such unfortunate consequences as a rise in wages, or in prices."
    This economic freedom made Hitler extremely popular with the German people. Germany was rescued from English economic theory, which says that all currency must be borrowed against the gold owned by a private and secretive banking cartel — such as the Federal Reserve, or the Central Bank of Europe — rather than issued by the government for the benefit of the people. Canadian researcher Dr. Henry Makow (who is Jewish himself) says the main reason why the bankers arranged for a world war against Germany was that Hitler sidestepped the bankers by creating his own money, thereby freeing the German people. Worse, this freedom and prosperity threatened to spread to other nations. Hitler had to be stopped!

    Makow quotes from the 1938 interrogation of C. G. Rakovsky, one of the founders of Soviet Bolshevism and a Trotsky intimate. Rakovsky was tried in show trials in the USSR under Stalin. According to Rakovsky, Hitler was at first funded by the international bankers, through the bankers’ agent Hjalmar Schacht. The bankers financed Hitler in order to control Stalin, who had usurped power from their agent Trotsky. Then Hitler became an even bigger threat than Stalin when Hitler started printing his own money. (Stalin came to power in 1922, which was eleven years before Hitler came to power.)

    Rakovsky said:

    “Hitler took over the privilege of manufacturing money, and not only physical moneys, but also financial ones. He took over the machinery of falsification and put it to work for the benefit of the people. Can you possibly imagine what would have come if this had infected a number of other states?”
    (Henry Makow, “Hitler Did Not Want War,” March 21, 2004).




    And I guess this is an underlying thought every participant in this thread should think about a minute:


    "
    Could it be that National Socialism is permitted to be so maligned from every side because it, more than anything else that can be pointed to, has a proven track record in regards to neutralizing Jewish Internationalism?

    Nationalism and Internationalism are concepts diametrically opposed to one anothher, polar opposites, one cannot exist alongside thhe other for long. There is no denying the fact that Jewry has set in place Internationalism, i.e. a global market, which will be utilized too set in place global government.

    Hitler and Nazi Germany attempted to prevent this. You can say whatever you like, but the fact of the matter is, the only reason we are facinng the future we are today, one that appears to be both inevitable and evil, is because we [All of us, white, black, brown, red and yellow] were persuaded by the Jews seventy years ago that Hitler and Nationalism represented a greater threat than communism AKA Jewish Internationalism.

    We were duped then and we still cannot seem to accept that fact today. Ask yourself why government leaders aren’t being compared to men far more evil than Adolf Hitler, mass murderers like Stalin, Mao, Curchill, FDR/Truman, Hirohito?

    The ghost of Adolf Hitler and National Socialism scares the Jews far more than anything else, because Hitler and NS proved to the entire world that the Jew was not only unnecessary, but a parasite that promised a future of economic deprivation wherever it was/is to be found."
    --Curt Maynard



    ===============================
    Admittedly Curt Maynard is an anti- semite [sic!] (khazars are no semites), as I came across so many during my researches. Starting with Martin Luther, Napoleon, across Voltaire, across Winston Churchill and so many, many other significant figures of World History.

    You can scream and yell all that you want now, it´s a very logical point of view that would explain the state our world is in these days. And I think Pat Buchanan is not too far off from this resumée when he speaks from a war that could yet proof to be the death blow for our civilisation now.

    We draw the wrong conclusions out of WW2, of this I am 100% convinced.
    Amagi

  2. #122
    Jom's Avatar A Place of Greater Safety
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    Default Re: The Myth That Germany Triggered WW2

    Quote Originally Posted by intel View Post
    You can't attack a political entity that was created after conflict.

    Lex rerto non agit.
    You're still being somewhat pedantic. Considering Stalin was in a significant position of power in the SFSR, he wouldn't forgot Poland's role in the war, hence his hatred for the country.

    "For what it’s worth: it’s never too late to be whoever you want to be. I hope you live a life you’re proud of, and if you find that you’re not, I hope you have the strength to start all over again."

  3. #123

    Default Re: The Myth That Germany Triggered WW2

    I rep you, Amagi. Not because, i think you posted "the truth", but because the "truth" from History Channel which is told us over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over (yes, its anoying, isnt it!?) and over and over and over and over again cant be "the truth". Even if a lot of people here defending the History Channel "truth". To call a man "evil" or "the evil" is simply not a objective and intelligent way to handle this issue, or any other issue.
    I guess its not to much demanding, if we say: The war winner isnt perse the good and the war loser isnt perse the evil.
    Point of view. Amagi just shows us another point view, not "the truth". But we are in need of both side of the storys to build a meaning, instead of take over a meaning, which is told us over and over and over again.

    Just my two cents.
    If you're dealing with the devil, it's not the devil who changes, but rather the devil change you - for sanity is like a spider, sitting in a net woven from the finest of strings, unaware of the hand coming closer, being grabbed and stuffed into a mouth.
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  4. #124
    Habelo's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: The Myth That Germany Triggered WW2

    The victors writes the history. Even though we think of ourselves as civilized and apst that- kinda untrue, but then again this is the age of hipocracy.
    You have a certain mentality, a "you vs them" and i know it is hard to see, but it is only your imagination which makes up enemies everywhere. I haven't professed anything but being neutral so why Do you feel the need to defend yourself from me?. Truly What are you defending? when there is nobody attacking?

  5. #125
    Lord Claremorris's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: The Myth That Germany Triggered WW2

    Quote Originally Posted by Amagi View Post
    A good discussion on the holo-thingy can be found here *Click*

    In this thread I will step back from that topic, as I dont want to ruin my thread =)


    On the "Nazi"- issue, I wanna bring some interesting stuff for thought which I came across in a really free forums, where reasonable discussions are possible:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    As today's economic crisis continues, it should be useful to look at just how well, or badly, Hitler and Nazi Germany handled the world depression in the 1930's. The following chart appears in Burton Folsom's excellent new book: New Deal or Raw Deal? on page 243.





    http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php...t=unemployment



    In his highly influential Origins of the Second World War (1961), British historian A.J.P. Taylor similarly gave the Nazis credit for creating widespread prosperity, concluding,



    This economic freedom made Hitler extremely popular with the German people. Germany was rescued from English economic theory, which says that all currency must be borrowed against the gold owned by a private and secretive banking cartel — such as the Federal Reserve, or the Central Bank of Europe — rather than issued by the government for the benefit of the people. Canadian researcher Dr. Henry Makow (who is Jewish himself) says the main reason why the bankers arranged for a world war against Germany was that Hitler sidestepped the bankers by creating his own money, thereby freeing the German people. Worse, this freedom and prosperity threatened to spread to other nations. Hitler had to be stopped!

    Makow quotes from the 1938 interrogation of C. G. Rakovsky, one of the founders of Soviet Bolshevism and a Trotsky intimate. Rakovsky was tried in show trials in the USSR under Stalin. According to Rakovsky, Hitler was at first funded by the international bankers, through the bankers’ agent Hjalmar Schacht. The bankers financed Hitler in order to control Stalin, who had usurped power from their agent Trotsky. Then Hitler became an even bigger threat than Stalin when Hitler started printing his own money. (Stalin came to power in 1922, which was eleven years before Hitler came to power.)

    Rakovsky said:

    (Henry Makow, “Hitler Did Not Want War,” March 21, 2004).




    And I guess this is an underlying thought every participant in this thread should think about a minute:



    --Curt Maynard



    ===============================
    Admittedly Curt Maynard is an anti- semite [sic!] (khazars are no semites), as I came across so many during my researches. Starting with Martin Luther, Napoleon, across Voltaire, across Winston Churchill and so many, many other significant figures of World History.

    You can scream and yell all that you want now, it´s a very logical point of view that would explain the state our world is in these days. And I think Pat Buchanan is not too far off from this resumée when he speaks from a war that could yet proof to be the death blow for our civilisation now.

    We draw the wrong conclusions out of WW2, of this I am 100% convinced.
    Amagi
    Ok, labeling Churchill and Napoleon anti-Jews = losing all credibility. Napoleon gave the Jews more freedoms than they ever had in Europe, especially in Germany, and Churchill supported the idea of a Jewish homeland in Palestine. Furthermore, you really don't understand economics do you? Banks don't "make" money. They hold money, and loan it out. Banks are an integral part of the economy, and I can't possibly see how having banks somehow injured the German economy. What ruined Germany's economy was the blockade by the Royal Navy, the occupation of the Ruhr by the French Army, and Germany's consequent defaulting on reparations and massive printing of Deutchmarks. It had nothing to do with banks. Try again.
    "Ghlaoigh tú anuas ar an Toirneach, agus anois bain an Chuaifeach."

  6. #126
    Lysimachus's Avatar Spirit Cleric
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    Default Re: The Myth That Germany Triggered WW2

    Amagi, would you mind answering our previous posts before raising a whole different list of points? Would be nice to get your stance on our replies. What surprises me is how on earth you were able to find a thread posted nearly over a year ago which followed the same revisionist principles you are showing here.

  7. #127

    Default Re: The Myth That Germany Triggered WW2

    The chart speaks for itself. One can see that in 1932, the year before Hitler and Roosevelt came to power, Germany's unemployment rate was at 30.1% and America's was at 24.9%. But within just five years, Germany's unemployment rate was reduced to only 4.6% (1937) and dropped even further to only 2.1% a year later. By contrast, FDR in 1937 still had 13.2% unemployment which actually rose to 19.8% a year later. Hitler was the clear unmatched winner in terms of economic management.
    The one who wrote that (especially the part that "Hitler was the clear unmatched ble, ble, ble") has no idea about economy.

    One of the basic rules of economy is that large-scale militarization reduces unemployment and improves general economic situation. But this works only for short periods, then the economic crises starts again (unless you wage a war and rob + exterminate your Jews before the crises starts). The crises starts again after militarization because militarization generates no income multiplier so improvement of situation causes by it is only temporary and ends quickly after the end of militarization (and it cannot last forever because your resources are not unlimited - unless you conquer other countries and their resources).
    Last edited by Domen123; March 28, 2010 at 10:31 AM.

  8. #128

    Default Re: The Myth That Germany Triggered WW2

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Claremorris View Post
    Ok, labeling Churchill and Napoleon anti-Jews = losing all credibility.
    I quote from Churchills "Bolshevism vs zionism- Struggle for the Jewish soul" essay he wrote before he was bought by the bankers (watch: Zionist influence over Winston Churchill on youtube):

    From the days of Spartacus, Weishaupt, Karl Marx, Trotski, Belacoon, Rosa Luxenburg, and Ema Goldman, this world conspiracy has been steadily growing. This conspiracy played a definite recognizable role in the tragedy of the French revolution. It has been the mainspring of every subversive movement during the 19th Century. And now at last this band of extraordinary personalities from the underworld of the great cities of Europe and America have gripped the Russian people by the hair of their head and have become the undisputed masters of that enormous empire
    --Winston Churchill

    And that is EXACTLY what Thrid Reich figures such as Goebbels and Hitler repeatedly stated.

    Churchill didn´t wage war against Germany in order "to save the jews" as it is portrayed these days, he did so to break her economic might that the british empire caught in debt slavery couldn´t compete with.


    @Lysimachus: Will check. It´s a bit hard to keep the overview for me.

    Edit:
    Checked the last pages and there´s just an awfull lot of aspects where people disagree with me/ demand answer, please pick one or two points you´d like to hear my opinions/clarifications on. It is simply impossible to deal with 50+ members demanding replies...

    Kind regards!
    Last edited by Amagi; March 28, 2010 at 10:30 AM.

  9. #129

    Default Re: The Myth That Germany Triggered WW2

    While I don't agree with most of this, the economics part is spot on.

    @Amagi, have you ever seen the movie 'Zeitgeist'?
    | "I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it." |

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  10. #130

    Default Re: The Myth That Germany Triggered WW2

    It is simply impossible to deal with 50+ members demanding replies...
    Possible, you just need a lot of time. But we can wait.

    The economics part is spot on.
    Don't you understand that unemployment in Germany decreased only because of huge and extremely fast militarization?

    And militarization generates no income multiplier - contrary to investments - so it's positive effects are only short term.

  11. #131

    Default Re: The Myth That Germany Triggered WW2

    I was actually aiming at the part where a currency without interest will do more good and get the world out of the shackles of the banks.
    | "I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it." |

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  12. #132

    Default Re: The Myth That Germany Triggered WW2

    In february and march 1939- the egrman side is still looking for a peaceful settlement, poland already starts thinking seriously about war.
    How should I comment this?

    This is just an awful lie of some revisionist. In March 1939 Germans already started top-secret mobilization for the invasion. Poland started mobilization few months later.

    Vehement anti-Polish German propaganda was working yet several months before the conflict.

    Wladyslaw Steblik (Chef of Staff of Polish Army "Cracow") wrote, that in August 1939:

    "When Krakowska Cavalry Brigade arrived at its defensive lines near the German border the entire event was in harsh tone commented by the Gleiwitz radio station yet on the same day - with 'proper' comment of course. Yet several weeks before the campaign the Germans were allowed to have fully mobilized, mighty armies concentrated along the Polish border waiting for the order to strike since 23rd of August, while Poland was completely deprived - both by its enemies and by its allies - of the right of conducting any, even the humblest, defensive preparations."

    On march 4th, 1939 the so called "main staff" begins it´s plannings for "operation west"
    Not any "operation west" but "Defensive Plan West" ("Plan Obronny Zachód").

    On the other hand "Defensive Plan East" was ready yet in mid 1930s - does it mean that Poland was preparing to invade the USSR in 1930s? You are funny.

  13. #133
    Lord Claremorris's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: The Myth That Germany Triggered WW2

    Quote Originally Posted by Ratbag View Post
    While I don't agree with most of this, the economics part is spot on.

    @Amagi, have you ever seen the movie 'Zeitgeist'?

    The economics is completely off. The Germans had overtaken the British Empire industrially by 1900. The British were still technically the stronger economy because of foreign trade, and because they were still the largest creditor nation and had lots of mobile capital. That being said, WWI ruined the British economy so stringent measures had to be adopted. Whether or not there was any WWII the British Empire would have been completely eclipsed by Germany. In fact, his whole claim that "Churchill didn't fight Hitler to save the Jews but to destroy the German economy" falls flat on its face when you look at facts. Western Germany was able to overtake the United Kingdom very swiftly, and Germany today is the 4th or 5th strongest economy on the planet, when I doubt the UK is even in the top ten. If that's what Churchill planned, then he did a pretty lousy job of it, as Germany even outstripped defeated Britain. In fact, a British Prime Minister (Harold Macmillan) pretty bluntly said that Germany was much better off economically losing the two wars than Britain was in winning them:

    'Of course, if we succeeded in losing two world wars, wrote off all our debts-instead of having nearly £30 million in debts-got rid of all our foreign obligations, and kept no force overseas, then we might be as rich as the Germans.'

    Pretty queer way to go about destroying Germany's economy eh? You got no case.
    Last edited by Lord Claremorris; March 28, 2010 at 10:54 AM.
    "Ghlaoigh tú anuas ar an Toirneach, agus anois bain an Chuaifeach."

  14. #134

    Default Re: The Myth That Germany Triggered WW2

    Quote Originally Posted by Ratbag View Post
    I was actually aiming at the part where a currency without interest will do more good and get the world out of the shackles of the banks.
    Yeah..
    | "I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it." |

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  15. #135

    Default

    The misery of the minority germans in poland now overshadows the open questions on Danzig and the transit ways. That misery in 1939 now developed to the third and most pressing reason for the outbreak of the war.
    You post photographs from the German Nazi propaganda publication:

    Polish Atrocities
    Against the German Minority in Poland
    Edited and published by order of the Foreign Office,
    Volk und Reich Verlag Berlin, 2nd. revised ed., 1940, 311 pp.
    IT SHOULD BE NOTED THAT THE 2nd revised edition increased the number of supposed victims of alleged Polish atrocities from 5,000 to 58,000 and added some photos (which are all fakes prepared specially in order to publish the second "revised" edition) !!!!

    http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=147404

    http://www.jrbooksonline.com/polish_atrocities.htm

    Photos show Polish citizens of Jewish origin photographed by Germans and falsely presented as alleged victims of supposed Polish atrocities.

    Had the poles accepted this offer, and in a countermove granted the exterritorial highways and the reunification of danzig, world war 2 would have been avoided.
    Hitler was not aiming at Poland but at European Jewry and at the Soviet Union. Poland was only an obstacle, not a target. Thus Poland had no any influence on the outbreak of WW2. Had the Poles accepted Hitler's unnaceptable offers (which meant subordination of Poland to Germany), WW2 would have started a bit later.

    Concerning the German myths and Nazi propaganda about the alleged brutal treatment of the German "civilians" in Poland, some interesting pieces of history from the Mława region (mainly Mława poviat) in 1939:

    From "Bitwa pod Mławą 1939" ("Battle of Mława 1939") by Ryszard Juszkiewicz - page 16:

    "[...] German staffs were also trying to cause psychosis of fear, uncertainty and disbelief in Polish Armed Forces also with use of non military means. Among them broadcasts of German radio in Konigsberg. They were saying in these broadcasts about "shortage of casual men in Poland", about "possibility of finding a well-paid job in Germany", to encourage people to escape to Germany. However, it is characteristic that although economical situation in the borderland in 1939 did not improve, only not numerous escaped to East Prussia. [...] Germans were disappointed because they calculated that because of the propaganda thousands of men would escape, in this way weakening the strength of the Polish Army. Attempt failed. Due to the Sentence of the Regional Court in Mława for an attempt of organizing illegal overruns of the border in 1939 the following people were sentenced: Emma Bergeisten, Rudolf and Marta Weissens, Reingold Elgert, Alfred and Freda Scheins and Franciszek and Józef Szpejewskis.

    If there were any escapes to the Reich, they were only carried out by German colonists living in the Northern Mazovia. For example from Iłów - to avoid recruitment to the Polish Army - two sons of Wilhelm Sowa, two members of Prejs family and two Radzanowski brothers escaped to Prussia. Escapes of Poles from the border poviats of this region were not recorded. [...]"

    And another piece of history - the same source - page 17:

    "[...] Another mean, which was to cause atmosphere of uncertainty and disorganize the political live, were messages spread by the German secret service, saying that peasants should not work in their fields, because it is a vain effort in the face of war. German agents were gathering and buying Polish coins. Limited amount of coins in circulations was causing among some people willingness to tesaurisate silver and nickel coins as these - according to spread gossips - would retain their value during the war.

    Also behaviour of Germans living in Poland changed. They became even more arrogant and provocative. Local press was saying about numerous indictments to the Polish courts from Polish civilians, about insults and abuses of impudent Germans - informed about imminent war - towards ethnic Poles. [...]"

    Another fragment - pages 25 - 27:

    "[...] To protect the resources of the future frontline in the end of August few hundreds of the most active Germans were displaced from the Northern Mazovia to the central parts of the country.
    In the last few hours before the war many German agents were arrested - thanks to that assembled for a long time intelligence agencies and sabotage networks in several poviats were disorganized.
    Another serious success of the local "dwójka" ["dwójka" = Section II of the Main Headquarters = Polish counterintelligence] was "cracking" the activity of Edward Lenc, inhabitant of Mława. His occupation was surveyor and due to this he could freely go anywhere he wanted outside Mława and was gathering spy information. Moreover together with Brunon Hirsz, occupation - teacher, he was officially working as director of the local PCK in Mława and... was directing the V Column of the local ethnic Germans, number of which in the Mława poviat yet before the war was around 850. "New Mławska Newspaper" from 16.04.1939 in article titled "Germans in the mławski poviat" was saying, that German colonists were living mainly near the locality Szreńsk. In village Stołowo only Germans were living. In village Ostrów there were 60% Germans, in Rochnia - 50%, in Wola Proszkowska - 40%, and three German families in Proszkowo. Two young Krugers were the go-between of the German colony and the Reich. The whole German colony was fully benefiting from the civil rights of the citizens of the Polish state. It has got its own school with German language of instruction and its own prayer house. Polish authorities did not use any harassments towards the German minority. On the eve of the war only several dangerously active Germans were displaced - on the strength of the decision of administration authorities - from the Mława poviat to the łukowski poviat - for example Brunon Hirsz and owner of the brickyard - Karol Baran.
    Edward Lenc was detained for the first time on the border in the beginning of August of 1939. He was soon released, but he was being carefully surveillanced since that time. Lenc, convinced of the incompetence of the Polish secret service, very quickly provided convincing evidences to arrest himself and the whole intelligence agency, which he had created. During revision in his house spy materials and installed broadcaster were found. He was transported to Warsaw and - on the strength of the court sentence - executed during the first days of war.
    For his spy contribution Lenc received substantial sums of cash, which he exploited for example for building a big house (near J. Lelewela street 9) in Mława, buying expensive furniture and a car. He was investing his earnings in the bank account in Warsaw.
    In 1940 "Deutsche Ostwacht" in an article titled "Silent heroism of a woman and terrible murder of a German - Lenc. Mława example for many" presented the activity of Lenc as great heroism - example to imitate - and his arrest and further execution - on the strength of the legal court sentence - as example of bestiality of Poles, not respecting basic rules of a citizens' freedom, murdering him only because he was German. The Lenc's case was treated as another proof of suffering allegedly inflicted to the German minority by Polish authorities.
    More or less in the same time in a small town Iłów, located 9 kilometres from Mława, Polish authorities liquidated - to which Andrzej Ziółkowski contributed - spy network of Wilhelm Sowa. Also a German storage of weapons located in the house of Radzanowski near Szkolna street 9 was detected and liquidated.
    German spies and members of V Column could not be arrested earlier not because of the lack of information about German agents operating in this area, or idleness of the Polish security service, but orders from the political factors - mainly from Ministry of Foreign Affairs - to keep maximal caution, not provoke and soften the situation. [...]"

    Another fragment - page 28:

    "Characteristic phenomenon for the last period before the war were numerous illegal migrations of young people in recruiting age on both sides of the border. In the mławski poviat many people in beggar clothes appeared. On the other hand young Germans were escaping from Poland to avoid being enlisted to the Polish Army or to avoid detentions in case if they were members of spy networks or V Column. Due to these facts on 30.04.1939 Polish authorities issued the "Law about Special Criminal Liability In Case of Illegal Escapes to the Enemy or Outside the Borders of the State". On the strength of this law Polish courts punished many ethnic Germans. But it did not prevent all escapes. In August of 1939 many young Germans appeared along the border. Captured by Polish Border Guard or Police, they were explaining that they were escaping from the upcoming war, that they hated Hitler, that they were good Catholics persecuted by German authorities. Polish security authorities usually interpreted reasons of these escapes correctly - that is, contraband of saboteurs to the Polish territory. But many circles - including the local press and Catholic clergy - assumed that stories about massive escapes from religious reasons were true, they were cheated and treated exodus of "refugees" as preview of soon crisis in godless Germany. Indeed, there were also such persons, who were really escaping from the Nazi terror, but it was several years before the beginning of the war. For example in 1936 a German soldier with full equipment escaped from the garrison in Olsztyn to Poland - his name was Heinz Keller."

    For more information I also suggest reading these threads:

    viewtopic.php?f=50&p=1321735

    viewtopic.php?f=6&t=151354

    And this thread:

    viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3697&start=255

    German minority in Poland in 1939 was actively involved in supporting the German Sabotage and the German military operations - both BEFORE and DURING the 1939 campaign. A lot of proofs for this fact can be found both in Polish sources and in German archival sources (INCLUDING BUNDES ARCHIVE MILITAR ARCHIVE IN FREIBURG AND AMERICAN ARCHIVES):

    http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtop...51352&start=15

    Interesting German document, "Markblatt zur Bekanntgabe an die gegen Polen eigesetzten Truppen", can be found in BA-MA RH 26/239, pp. 1 - 3. Copy of this document was captured by Polish forces near Poznan on 02.09.1939 after shooting down a German Do-17 bomber and being found among papers of its crew members - Emil Ambrost and Wilhelm Hermings. It was later published in English in "The German Fifth Column in Poland", London 1940, p. 148.

    Only recently this document was found in German archives (this shows how many unknown things are still there).

    The "Markblatt zur Bekanntgabe an die gegen Polen eigesetzten Truppen" refers to members of German minority in Poland involved in anti-Polish sabotage operations on Polish territory. Also general Erwin Lahousen mentions such saboteurs in his diary, he mentions for example M-Organisationen and S-Truppen composed of Volksdeutsche.

    ------------------------------------

    Thread about the German sabotage minority actions in the city of Bydgoszcz which are called by Nazi propaganda and stubborn German Nazi revisionists "Die Bromberger Blutsonntag":

    http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtop...3697&start=300

    http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtop...3697&start=285

    READ CAREFULLY THE LAST FEW PAGES, ESPECIALLY MY POSTS !!!

    -------------------------------------------

    Hitler painted this painting so he couldn't be an evil man?!! Right?! And Germany is awesome bla, bla bla!!?! LOL:



    Administration PLEASE close this stupid Nazi revisionistic thread !!!!

    Research archives if you want to know who really started WW2 - instead of researching Nazi propaganda publications and cries of modern revisionists !!!
    Last edited by Viking Prince; March 29, 2010 at 05:32 AM. Reason: conseq posts

  16. #136

    Default Re: The Myth That Germany Triggered WW2

    @Domen: I had to read hogwash stuff of Goering dancing on the table and bloodthirstily begging to kill someone, so put your tone down a bit =).

    _______________________________

    @Intel:

    You say the german money was worthless, but you display money from weimar republic shovelled in the ovens. Hitler Germany had had a monetary reform by that time.

    You say, there were no pogroms against the germans if I remeber correctly, that is untrue.
    In this book you find a detailled description of polish suppresion since 1919 in Posen, west Prussia and upper silesia.


    Title: "The Death Spoke Polish"

    It shares a good part of it´s pages for the bromberg massacre directly after outbreak of the war and the cruelsome treatment in polish concentration camps after end of the war.

    With all due respect Intel, the fable of polish innocence is untrue.

    I found another interesting site here:

    http://www.jrbooksonline.com/polish_atrocities.htm
    "Poland wants war with Germany and Germany will not be able to avoid it even if she wants to."
    (Polish Marshal Rydz-Smigly as reported in the Daily Mail, August 6th, 1939)


    And I further quote the introduction to this website:

    German invasion was Sep 1939, but it's important to understand that many of the outrages had preceded the German invasion. This was proved by the amount of decomposition of the bodies. Thus, these atrocities cannot be excused simply as reprisals for the German invasion (which would be wrong anyway). They included 19 year-old girls with their faces smashed, amputations, disembowelments, shot thru' the eye, death-trauma births, you name it. Poles had been merrily slaughtering anything or anybody German since at least as early as April 1939, with smaller incidents stretching back to the close of WW I -- you haven't been told that by the Mass Media, or the fact that these atrocities were one of the main causes for the German invasion of Poland, something that was meant by the Germans to be a local solution to a local problem.

    Germany had already done the "right thing" by protesting in writing to the League of Nations literally dozens of times.

    The League of Nations did nothing, yet the problem had to be solved.

    [Photo at left: Polski marshal Rydz-Smigly, burdened with the weight of numerous medals. As soon as his army started to lose, this bragging Polish "warrior" ran away to Romania, leaving his troops in a lurch! Yet to this day, no opprobrium is cast his way by the establishment media. Why not?]

    Subsequent to the German invasion, Britain declared war on Germany, yet after the Soviet Union invaded the eastern Polish territory only a few weeks later, Britain neglected to declare war on the Soviet Union. Why not, if the integrity of Poland's borders was so important? Inquiring minds want to know. After using these incidents as obvious pretext (the real purpose being to take down Germany as an economic rival and arch anti-NWO force), Britain then began bombing the Ruhr Valley the day after Churchill took office (May 10, 1940), specifically targeting civilian areas in addition to industrial and military targets. The rest is history -- a shameful and gut-wrenching one.

    On Bromberg Bloody Sunday, thousands of ethnic Germans were slaughtered like pigs in an alley because the majority "poles" [...] knew they could do so with total impunity.

    Marshal Pilsudski had died, and Britain's leaders had made unconditional guarantees to Poland as a pretense to ensure maximum political tensions in Eastern Europe to serve the interests of Soviet Russia. Poles in official capacity were openly laying claim to ancient German territory, were engaging in the crudest pea-brained saber-rattling, had engaged in border violations and boasted of marching thru' the gates of Berlin in 3 weeks (or days, depending on which buzzing brain was indulging in the fantasy). Poland had even stolen a chunk of "Czechoslovak" territory (Teschen) in March 1939.

    * WHAT ABOUT THE NUMBERS? Are these numbers exaggerated? Probably, but not by much, certainly nowhere near as much as the way Poles and Jews exaggerate their numbers of dead. These historical facts were confirmed by the East-German historian Theodor Bierschenk in 1954, and the Social-Democrat journalist Otto Heike in 1955, on the basis of Polish documents. There were 12,857 identified dead in the Bromberg area, leaving a large number of unidentified dead there, and many more dead elsewhere. Both Hoggan (The Forced War) and de Zayas (Wehrmacht War Crimes Bureau) basically agree with these conclusions
    The website also includes a digitalized book, where amongst other things detailed photographs are displayed.

    In this book many german eyewitnesses give insight to their bearings, as you can find the transcripts of their reports to german authorities.

    In order to shatter the myth of innocent poland some more, I post some pictures below, which are subtitled in english.

    Warning: Graphic content and not for children.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Graphic, keep out!
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 









    I spare the pictures of the 3y old baby, the mother giving birth while beeing slaughtered (the baby beeing half born during her death agony) and all the other atrocities to be found there.

    If you wanna see what I am talking about, search the "Illustrated reports by medico-legal experts" section of that website.

    I hope the pics I posted so far are not against the rules.


    Poland beeing innocent is a myth. The documentary this thread is based upon speaks of 80.000 ethnic germans beeing in german rescue camps at the time the war breaks out. I see little to no reason to doubt that figure or the massacres of the poles that constituted the main reason for german to attack

    "The wave of appalling terrorism against the [minority] inhabitants of Poland, and the atrocities that have been taking place in that country are terrible for the victims, but intolerable for a Great Power which has been expected to remain a passive onlooker. We will not continue to tolerate the persecution of the minority, the killing of many, and their forcible removal under the most cruel conditions. I see no way by which I can induce the government of Poland to adopt a peaceful solution. But I should despair of any honourable future for my own people if we were not, in one way or another, to solve this question."
    -- Adolf Hitler, August 23, 1939, justifying the German invasion of Poland.

    .
    Amagi
    Last edited by Amagi; March 28, 2010 at 11:26 AM.

  17. #137
    Lord Claremorris's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: The Myth That Germany Triggered WW2

    Domen's here, and refuting everything concerning Poland. So, /thread.
    "Ghlaoigh tú anuas ar an Toirneach, agus anois bain an Chuaifeach."

  18. #138

    Default Re: The Myth That Germany Triggered WW2

    Nobody in his right mind would deny that Germans were subjected to violence and unjust behaviour, especially at the end of the war. Still that doesn't justify the Nazis and their deeds in any way. Read "Mein Kampf" and other pamphlets of theirs to get an insight into their utterly rotten ideology. I fail to see how anything could redeem them.

  19. #139

    Default Re: The Myth That Germany Triggered WW2

    Quote Originally Posted by athanaric View Post
    Nobody in his right mind would deny that Germans were subjected to violence and unjust behaviour, especially at the end of the war.
    The violence against germans started well before WW2, already in 1919.

    Quote Originally Posted by athanaric View Post
    Still that doesn't justify the Nazis in any way. Read "Mein Kampf" and other pamphlets of theirs to get an insight into their utterly rotten ideology.
    Mein Kampf was written a whole 15 years before outbreak of the war. All of Hitler´s policies when in power dismiss the "world war for lebensraum" propaganda.

    Quote Originally Posted by athanaric View Post
    I fail to see how anything could redeem them.
    The thing you look for is called "historical truth".

    Cheers!

  20. #140

    Default Re: The Myth That Germany Triggered WW2

    In this book you find a detailled description of polish suppresion since 1919 in Posen, west Prussia and upper silesia.
    What about the atrocities commited by Freikorps and Selbschutz on Polish inhabitants of these territories ??!!

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