Stealth, Hiding!!!!!!!

[Claym0re]

I posted this thread on the main discussion board but it applies here too, cause I love this mod and play it more than SS total war. What is the point of hiding and stealth I mean when you start a battle even if the com can't see your units they know they are there. I feel like you should get a massive damage bonus on the first strike, even if you hide and wait for the enemy to be behind you it doesn't really do that much. Plus you need another unit just distract them and the ambushing unit can't be you general's unit. Please let me know your feelings on stealth and hiding units and how to use them in combat either stratagies to do so or perhaps a be with me on the whole, making stealth and hiding matter.

[Hero of the West]

as far as i now the AI doesn't notice those units and ignores them while planning a strategy..

one strategy i heard off is the following: while sieging a city.. hide a unit with ladders in a forest on 1 side.. set the rest of your units.. somewhere else.. this unit will not be noticed and the walls on that side will be unprotected..

i don't know all this for sure.. but with the above you could definately try it out

[CBCRonin]

The AI doesn't "see" your hidden troops, but at times it may feel that way (when they conveniently march near your hidden reserves ).

I regularly hide snaga as Isenguard and enemy archers don't know they are waiting until the enemy gets close enough to expose them. I have also hidden cavalry (as Dale) for the purpose of pouncing on enemy archers/rear charges once lines are engaged, but you have to place them a fair distance from the expected enemy route towards your general.

Orc units are extra large and as a result their armies have long main lines. Because of this they do pretty well at exposing hidden troops on the flanks, depending on how much distance is involved.

[Claym0re]

I like both of these strategies, using horsemen and during sieges. But I feel like stealth units that are melee are pointless and besides that, how many battles have been one by a smaller force by using guerrilla and ambush tactics, TONS!!! I just wish it was extrememly effective like in reality and history, Think about Sylvian elves for example if their archers are hidden on their first barrage they should have an extremely high accuaracy rating due to being able to each pick a target. Just like in real life the first shot and surprise is extremely effective, just like Faramirs rangers in the two towers, were able to take down an entire Harad force.

Sun Tzu said:
Open confrontation will trigger
over-powering resistance. Thus the key
to victory is the ability to use surprise tactics.

[Hero of the West]

I like both of these strategies, using horsemen and during sieges. But I feel like stealth units that are melee are pointless and besides that, how many battles have been one by a smaller force by using guerrilla and ambush tactics, TONS!!! I just wish it was extrememly effective like in reality and history, Think about Sylvian elves for example if their archers are hidden on their first barrage they should have an extremely high accuaracy rating due to being able to each pick a target. Just like in real life the first shot and surprise is extremely effective, just like Faramirs rangers in the two towers, were able to take down an entire Harad force.

Sun Tzu said:
Open confrontation will trigger
over-powering resistance. Thus the key
to victory is the ability to use surprise tactics.

i agree that well used suprise tactics should be awarded with a bonus.. i don't know if this could be scripted though.. have a bad feeling about that

but like with the first strategy a melee unit is just perfect.. send you most powerfull melee unit with the ladder at the side hidden.. the enemy sets all his troops near the front gate.. attack from the rear.. they mass panic send a overkill off troops that arive to late.. and you splitted the front.. with luck you even reach town square.. then the'll even retreat more units from the walls..

just that with one melee unit.. (which survives longer in close combat then archers)

[Claym0re]

Thanks patrician1, Imagine a large bonus for ambushing it would let players recreate and open up a whole new dimension of warfare. Warfare went from large standing armies, then to guerilla tactics and now changing to terrorism. I think Medieval would be so much more interesting if the bonus was added. I wonder if anyone can mod that or if its hard coding.

[Hero of the West]

Thanks patrician1, Imagine a large bonus for ambushing it would let players recreate and open up a whole new dimension of warfare. Warfare went from large standing armies, then to guerilla tactics and now changing to terrorism. I think Medieval would be so much more interesting if the bonus was added. I wonder if anyone can mod that or if its hard coding.

good question.. ask koultouras.. he's the leader of FROME.. This might be a great idea for his mirkwood elves if it's possible

[CBCRonin]

Unfortunately I don't think such a thing is possible (in regards to the one time sneak bonus on first fire), otherwise I imagine KK would have given the elves that ability.

An "overall bonus" can be given for melee fighting in certain environments (inex: fighting in snow or forests, heat effects on fatigue for heavily armored troops, negatives for cavalry in forests, etc.), but I don't think ranged fire benefits from environmental bonuses.