Roman Leadership...
I'm going to stick my neck out pretty far here, and please everyone feel free to chop it off if you feel it's necessary. In particular, Tone, whose opinion I really respect most of all as a long time motivator and contributor to this project.
I've been sitting here the last week or more unhappy with the way the Roman Leadership is working, and asking myself over and over if I would've questioned and 'advised' Calvin about how this was working, and whether he would've received that advice kindly. And the answer I think is 'yes'. We had a very good relationship, and I know that our goals for this would've included major changes if that were necessary. So I'm going to throw out some concerns and ideas.
First of all, Calvin used a very complicated system (and very accurate, also) of 'election' and turn numbers to dictate how offices were doled out, who got elected to what, etc, etc. He basically followed Roman political law as closely as he could in a game. And, a good part of the system is working fine....determining which class a character belongs to, the various professions they can get into, etc. However, what I don't see working very well 'for this game' are the political offices and the military careers. Sure, a few of them are showing up....but lets face it, after 30 years or so into a campaign, a LOT of this stuff should be showing up...not just a few offices and whatnot here and there.
The reason they are showing up so slowly is because of a massive system of checks and balances...I guess you'd call them...that Calvin wrote into his triggers to prevent various things. My concern, however, is less to 'prevent' things than it is to 'portray' things that were a part of Rome's politics and military. I really care much less how 'accurate' it is, in terms of the time involved, than I do about the role play value and the fun of seeing things happen.
If it were my choice alone, I would take a much more 'linear' approach to these civil and military careers...with less concern about how long characters have various traits, and more to having them actually progress along a determined path. I would make Rome, or perhaps settlements in Italy the focus of political offices, whereby characters in settlements there would be subject to the necessary triggers to progress them along a path of political office if you left them in settlements. Likewise, Generals in command of armies, whether Plebeian or Patrician would ONLY progress on a military path if they were left in the field, and would progress from like so:
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Trait Plebeian_Military_Tree
Characters family
Hidden
ExcludeCultures barbarian, greek, eastern, egyptian, carthaginian, nomad
NoGoingBackLevel 6
AntiTraits Patrician_Military_Tree
Level Centurion
Description Centurion_desc
EffectsDescription Centurion_effects_desc
Threshold 1
Effect TroopMorale 1
Level Primus_Pilus
Description Primus_Pilus_desc
EffectsDescription Primus_Pilus_effects_desc
Threshold 6
Effect TroopMorale 1
Effect Management 1
Level Prefectus_Castrorum
Description Prefectus_Castrorum_desc
EffectsDescription Prefectus_Castrorum_effects_desc
Threshold 12
Effect Command 1
Effect Influence 1
Effect TroopMorale 1
Effect Management 1
Level Plebeian_Legatus
Description Plebeian_Legatus_desc
EffectsDescription Plebeian_Legatus_effects_desc
Threshold 24
Effect Command 1
Effect Influence 2
Effect TroopMorale 1
Effect Management 1
Level Plebeian_Legatus_Legionis
Description Plebeian_Legatus_Legionis_desc
EffectsDescription Plebeian_Legatus_Legionis_effects_desc
Threshold 36
Effect Command 2
Effect Influence 2
Effect TroopMorale 1
Effect Management 1
This is a 'straight line' progression thru various ranks by any given Plebeian left in the field in an army, so that over a period of time, whether it be a simple acquisition of 'points' just for being there, or a quicker leap in the ranks for battle proficiency, your character WILL eventually become a Legatus_Legionis unless he gets killed or retired to a city governorship or something.
Likewise, Patrician, Equestrian and Plebeians would follow a 'political' career path that is more or less linear:
;------------------------------------------
Trait Civil_Career_Patrician
Characters family
ExcludeCultures barbarian, greek, eastern, egyptian, carthaginian, nomad
NoGoingBackLevel 8
AntiTraits Civil_Career_Plebeian
Level Patrician_Tribunus
Description Patrician_Tribunus_desc
EffectsDescription Patrician_Tribunus_effects_desc
Threshold 1
Effect Influence 1
Level Patrician_Quaestor
Description Quaestor_desc
EffectsDescription Quaestor_effects_desc
Threshold 4
Effect Influence 2
Level Patrician_Curule_Aedile
Description Aediles_desc
EffectsDescription Aediles_effects_desc
Threshold 8
Effect Influence 3
Level Patrician_Praetor
Description Praetor_desc
EffectsDescription Praetor_effects_desc
Threshold 16
Effect Influence 4
Level Patrician_Consul
Description Consul_desc
EffectsDescription Consul_effects_desc
Threshold 24
Effect Influence 5
Level Patrician_Censor
Description Censor_desc
EffectsDescription Censor_effects_desc
Threshold 32
Effect Influence 6
Level Patrician_Princeps_Senatus
Description Princeps_Senatus_desc
EffectsDescription Princeps_Senatus_effects_desc
Threshold 40
Effect Influence 7
Level Patrician_Proconsul_Propraetor_Eligible
Description Proconsul_Propraetor_Eligible_desc
EffectsDescription Proconsul_Propraetor_Eligible_effects_desc
Threshold 48
Effect Influence 8
But only if they are in Rome, or perhaps, as I said, to expand the field a bit, a city in Italy.
Military and civil careers would be very strictly defined.....you follow one or the other. As a politician, if you leave the city for a length of time (the player makes him a general) he'll become a 'former' (whatever he was at the time) politician. And, the example above of a political career isn't exactly how the code would look, it's just to show that the process would be a step by step 'rise' thru the offices for any character that meets the conditions.
I have a pretty fair plan mapped out in my head of how this could work, but I NEED people to tell me first, is it worth it it? And would it be more 'immersive' to actually see a lot of these things happening, even if it wasn't exactly 'historically accurate'. Which leads me to the whole concept of the two Consuls. The Romans always had two Consuls during the Republican era we are in....but there is NO trait system that I can imagine that would limit this trait to only two people. RTW doesn't allow you to check whether a trait exists on some other character (other than faction leader and heir).....which is odd, because it DOES allow you to check for the global existence of an ancillary (but only that 'one' exists, not two). So the upshot is that there is no way to limit the office of Consul to only two people. That said, I personally think it would look better to make the faction leader and heir the two Consuls....yeah, they'll have it as long as they live, which isn't accurate, but I see no other way to prevent there being 3 or 4 or 10 of them...which would look worse.
Also, I know Tone is concerned that the economic situation has suddenly gone a bit out of whack...and I think I know why. Much of our previous testing was done with a ton of the traits either disabled and\or missing triggers. Once we started putting this stuff back in, characters started getting trade, management and tax bonuses they weren't getting before....which has thrown the balance off somewhat. So I want to go thru and correct that as much as possible also.
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Do what must be and let be what will
Originally Posted by apple
out of the province, so they can advance quicker to the next position on the civic side as well as amassing more clients and estates then they would have if they had just sat in italy(this could be useful for pleb/equestrians so they can further their careers just as easily as the patricans,
