The best personality for a conqueror is that of a gamer?

[Argeus the Paladin]

This is loosely connected to history so that I feel it might be suitable to put it here.

Yesterday I was watching one of the last episodes of a Chinese drama about the life and times of the famous general and military philosophist Sun Wu/Sun Tzu as the Western world knows him.

As the movie goes as followed: After conquering the capital of the kingdom of Chu against superior forces with the help of Sun Wu and Wu Zixu, King Helu of Wu, originally a hard-working and moralistic man, begins to sink into the decadence of women, wine and precious artifacts that the fleeing king of Chu left behind, never mind the fact that it was these things that arguably contributed to the downfall of Chu (A little bit sexist there, I know). And the Kingdom of Chu, may I add, housed one of the biggest collection of fine women in the Spring and Autumn/Warring State era.

And then a thought sparked to me. If the person who conquered the kingdom of Chu was not King Helu, but a random Rome Total War player or someone with the same mindset, what would happen? Take me, for instance. My first thought upon gazing at that reality would have been "So many precious things. If I put everything on sale I'd probably net several tens of thousands of Mnai/Denarii/Florins. This means I can either build a new Extensive Large Trading Port, several provinces' worth of Highways or at the least afford yet another full stack of Gaesatae to tear the rest of my enemies to shreds!" I definitely would never, ever enjoy the wine or women myself when there are more land not flying the flag of my faction to conquer and more full stacks of Chaonion Agema to obliterate!

Needless to say, in history of China at least conquerors almost never did this. Many of them indulged in these, only to fall prey to the same decadence that their enemies fell for. A gamer's mindset never go this way. The only thing a gamer care about is how to feed his ever-growing army so that he can finally steam-roll the entire map.

Does this follow, then, that the best mindset that a conqueror can have is that of a gamer - conquest and fighting for fun and diverting any resource at his disposal at his huge war machine?

[hellheaven1987]

RTW is a poor strategy game example, you know... If you use EUIII, then I can give more suggestions.

Either way, I think the best example of military personality is Alexander the Great.

[Argeus the Paladin]

Yes, for the reason I said above.

Alexander conquered for glory, which is, most of the time, similar to the mindset of a gamer.

[hellheaven1987]

Hmm, no, that is oversimply Alexander. From the description, it seems Alexander had several intentions - both private and national interests. On national interests, his early intention was probably to stable the weak alliance with Greek City States, and might also want to improve Macedon's economy so he could permanutely absorbed Greeks in future. Later on he simply saw he was the King of New Persia/Macedon, and continued a military policy to pursue rebels/stable the front of his empire.

Still, his private intentions probably weighted more in his military policy, although his national interests generally served his private interests in same time. Personally, Alexander probably had a strong taste of combat, and especially love to be in the hottest spots on battlefield (most common people probably cannot understand this). He also had a strong sense for what really belongs to him, and willing to achieve those using any justified way. Finally, he was eagered to explore new stuff, and his adventurous energy was what drived him for the India campaign.

Overall, Alexander was not fought for whatever glory of Macedon, but rather to achieve a stability of his empire. Now, if you say Trajan was fighting for glory, I may not oppose it...

[Argeus the Paladin]

This brings us back to the debate on what is the driving force for conquerors since time immemorial. I was told by someone whose wisdom I never doubt that ultimately the purpose of all conquest is for personal gains. Women. Wealth. Power. To quote that wise person, by conquering an empire you are hoping for something good out of it that you can enjoy with your person.

My point is, the one who conquers not for these petty reasons but either because of a greater ideal or just for the fun of conquering are the true incorruptible conquerors.

[hellheaven1987]

I actually agree that one of major force drive Alexander to continue his military campaign was the addiction to combat.

[Pious Agnost]

Well there's quite a difference between in-game luxuries, represented as things that are best for selling, and real life luxuries.

I think a gamer would fall into similar things as the King of the Wu did.

I definitely would never, ever enjoy the wine or women myself

If that is true, then you should pride yourself on that. I will pity you

[Argeus the Paladin]

^^ I pity myself.

I are asexual.

[hellheaven1987]

I are asexual.

PLEASE DON'T SUDDENLY GIVE OUT SUCH INFORMATION!!!

[Argeus the Paladin]

^^ Or at least I like to think of myself as such. Why the outcry?

Anyways, back on topic.

I think a gamer would fall into similar things as the King of the Wu did.

That is, if he is physically there. Thing is because to a gamer, wars and casualties are waged for fun. My point here, through the abstraction of the analogy, is that only when a conqueror is so bereft of what the common people think as 'fun' i.e. women, wine and luxuries, can he become incorruptible and triumph above all else. I am trying to ask for thoughts on this line of thinking of mine - is it true or false?

Thoughts?

[torongill]

To be free of the vices/temptations would mean that said gamer will have to live in a hut somewhere, or an isolated castle. The problem is that in this case the "gamer" will have to rely for his information on his advisers, who in the end will have an agenda of their own. Like I wanted to say, power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts faster.

[rusina]

I would suck as a general, there's no saving.

[Kagemusha]

I wonder what would happen inside the mind of RTW player when completely out manouvered and beaten tactically, when one has not accustomed to defeat at all.

[Seleucos of Olympia]

I think the average gamer would, if confronted with the temptation of women (assuming he's male) and wealth, dive into decadence and never resurface until a conquering enemy knocks on his palace door with a ram. Real war isn't as fun as simulated war. It's mostly marching all day, worrying about logistics and dying of disease (or at least wars in the pre-mechanized era were more like that). It's one thing for someone to sell all his palace's virtual luxuries so he can raise an extra half-stack, take the war to the enemy, and be in his warm bed within a few hours. It's quite another to do that on a timescale of years, during which you are bereft of all those luxuries which would help you pass the time.

[Exarch]

interesting thread, dood

i think you're forgetting that sex is a very powerful motivator for Men; i know that i enjoy total war because of the illusion of power it gives me-a feeling on par with sex.
now if i were the conquering lord in my M2:TW campaigns i'd definitely want to ravish a fair portion of the buxom maidens, but that's cuz i've got 'Red Blooded' in my character traits card and not 'Foreign Fruitcake'

[Lysimachus]

Considering gamers tend to be introverts, then no their personality isn't really the best a conqueror could have. If anything, it resembles Hitler in the Wolfsschanze organising operations all the way in the Caucasus from a bunker in East Prussia.

[CtrlAltDe1337]

I think the OP is mistaken. With so many pleasures there, it would be very easy to squander money. It is human nature.

[Odovacar]

I definitely would never, ever enjoy the wine or women myself when there are more land not flying the flag of my faction to conquer and more full stacks of Chaonion Agema to obliterate!

If you can say such that means, that you are
1, an unexperienced teenager
2, a person with various disorders, ie. social, sexual
3, a robot

Since women and wine can be bigger pleasures than putting flags on territories. Most conqurors fought for the pleasures of domination, victory and virtue, but also for women, wine, meal, jewels, gold..etc.

Needless to say, in history of China at least conquerors almost never did this. Many of them indulged in these, only to fall prey to the same decadence that their enemies fell for. A gamer's mindset never go this way. The only thing a gamer care about is how to feed his ever-growing army so that he can finally steam-roll the entire map.

Then he exists the game....and begins real life.

Does this follow, then, that the best mindset that a conqueror can have is that of a gamer - conquest and fighting for fun and diverting any resource at his disposal at his huge war machine?

Such a conqueror would be
1, totally crazy, and going for world domination only to be defeated finally
2, total brainless

[Manco]

Random gamer would be assassinated long before coming to power for being a social outcast, a sex starved nerd or an insane megalomaniac.

[Hrobatos]

yeah, such a gamer would be accused for being fascist...