Taking on Spanish Galleons early game with Brits

[hermanJnr.]

I think I posted something like this ages ago, but no matter how much I play this game, I find I'm always fighting a losing battle when it comes to medium to large navy battles versus Spain. I've played a lot of different campaigns now and still feel like a complete newblet when it comes to this.

Playing as the Brits at the moment, but I expect other nations struggle similarly against them.

Right now I have a force mostly comprised of Brigs, 5th rates, etc. and a couple of Fourth Rate Ships of the Line, but I find nothing I can build comes anywhere close to the Spanish Galleon for pure cost and early game evilness.

It's pretty cheap, the guns can badly shred any ship I can get right now in just one or two broadsides, it can take an unholy amount of hull punishment (I've never actually sunk one in the MP campaign, as battle ends instantly when they rout), and when things get hard to organise in big battles this just makes it easier to make a mistake and get insta-sunk. Or so I find.

I've had success plinking away with chain-shot from out of range with Brigs and even 5th rates, but in big battles I find my Ships of the Line still aren't really as tough or hard-hitting, so I can't get stuck in at close range without getting maimed, boarding is suicide unless I can grapeshot a crew to pieces beforehand (hard when trying to break the Galleon line), and my 5th rates quickly get killed because I can't micromanage them so well.

Am I just being a nubbin even challenging Galleon fleets with Brits? Or is there a niche strategy I should be using that I'm not?

[lemming3k]

I think I posted something like this ages ago, but no matter how much I play this game, I find I'm always fighting a losing battle when it comes to medium to large navy battles versus Spain. I've played a lot of different campaigns now and still feel like a complete newblet when it comes to this.

Playing as the Brits at the moment, but I expect other nations struggle similarly against them.

Right now I have a force mostly comprised of Brigs, 5th rates, etc. and a couple of Fourth Rate Ships of the Line, but I find nothing I can build comes anywhere close to the Spanish Galleon for pure cost and early game evilness.

It's pretty cheap, the guns can badly shred any ship I can get right now in just one or two broadsides, it can take an unholy amount of hull punishment (I've never actually sunk one in the MP campaign, as battle ends instantly when they rout), and when things get hard to organise in big battles this just makes it easier to make a mistake and get insta-sunk. Or so I find.

I've had success plinking away with chain-shot from out of range with Brigs and even 5th rates, but in big battles I find my Ships of the Line still aren't really as tough or hard-hitting, so I can't get stuck in at close range without getting maimed, boarding is suicide unless I can grapeshot a crew to pieces beforehand (hard when trying to break the Galleon line), and my 5th rates quickly get killed because I can't micromanage them so well.

Am I just being a nubbin even challenging Galleon fleets with Brits? Or is there a niche strategy I should be using that I'm not?

A Galleon is effectively the same as a 4th rate, but I think they're half the price and cheaper on upkeep? In my spanish game I still rule the waves in 1750 with Galleons. If you want to beat them you need bigger ships, but the cost makes this difficult. Fluyts are much the same as Galleons. I may be wrong but I think warships actually have greater range than Galleons.

A better idea (and cheaper in the early game until you can develop better ports) would be to take a territory in the med and build light galleys en masse. Cheap, high powered - these WILL sink Galleons if you group them and focus fire.

[MortenJessen]

Hi there.
A good way to take out galleons early is some 5th and 6th rates, and a lot of patiance. Kill those early juggernauts from the distance.
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=313823
Might help too.
Y.S.
M. Jessen

[Grenadiers92]

Well I found a tactic that works no matter who I'm battling, i use like fourth of the line ships like the 48 gunners i have atleast 3-4 of them then make up the rest of my ranks with smaller ships like fifth of the line ships and brigs then what i do is create a firing squad like ------- ships in a line with their broad sides facing the oncoming enemy, then i change the ammo to the chain shots, it works wonders the big heavier 48 gunners take out the enemies masts as they approach and disable them, no matter how good their ships armor is a shot to their masts with hit and nothings better then a head on blast cause it goes right down the ship blowing their sails to pieces, and once you've taking out their masts they are sitting ducks i tend to just blast away until they surrender so i can get their ships and reward money, but when I'm bored just blow them to pieces. try this method the only time you have to move or break ranks is with smaller faster ships, cause they tend to move around you quicker then the bigger boys who are to slow and become sitting ducks. hope this helps

[Geordie-warlord]

Like has been said before in this thread, the 4th rate is near the same as a galleon if not better and 5th rates out-range them in the cannon department so just don't get in their range.

A base navy of four 4th rates and four 5th rates should be enough to take on any early Spanish fleet and maybe capture a few for your own use.
Of course the above comment is only applicable depending on what difficulty you play the game at and your competence during sea battles, if you're playing the game on VH difficulty you will need to out-number the enemy by a small margin to comfortably win.

[Koning Kaas]

Right now I have a force mostly comprised of Brigs, 5th rates, etc. and a couple of Fourth Rate Ships of the Line, but I find nothing I can build comes anywhere close to the Spanish Galleon for pure cost and early game evilness.

What MortenJessen said. Use ships with more range against them.

More specific: try to use just one fifth rate so you only have to manage one ship. Sail downwind from the enemy and fire chain-shot at them until all the ships are dismasted. Try to stay out of range of their broadsides. They have four cannons in the bow as well, but a fifth rate can take a few shots.

Once they are dismasted you fire heavy shot at them until they surrender. Or get close and fire grape shot. Never start boarding until they all rout.

You can make a lot of money by selling ships, this can really boost your early game. I find that galleons are too expensive as trade-ships and don’t have enough range for warships. But they should net you about 1500 a piece.

[riscadw]

Use your superior land forces to disrupt their recruiting ability. What I do is use a small ship fleet to draw the Spanish Galleons out to sea and then will land a small raiding force, like a Cavalry unit or maybe even 1x cavalry 1x infantry 1x cannon to occupy the port. This absolutely wrecks the Spanish economy and you can play cat and mouse on land with the large size of the Iberian penninsula.

[WhiteRevan]

I usually just avoid them early on, run away or sneak through.
But then when I've gained the superiority in land, I'd pull fleets of 1st rate to every continent, trade theatre and start massacring them
I can tell you, revenge is sure sweet, and the long wait will just make it more satisfying... *evil laugh*

[Ryker]

Some of the naval guns in patch2.pack fire the wrong ammo because there are to many entries in the gun_to_projectiles table(6 instead of 5 for three of the guns, 4 instead of 3 for the 32lb carronade).
The naval 6lb gun fires the bullet for the 42lb rifled gun.
I just deleted the extra entries from patch2.pack (overwriting didn't work) and the galleons firepower dropped from 370 to 130, the forth rates firepower dropped from 297 to 121.
Unfortunately the third rates grew a little strong in the process, since they had the nominally heavier guns, look at the attached picture and you'll see that no ship uses 42lb guns so there is a major screw up in that db.
There is a naval_gun_fix mod around somewhere, so maybe try that, for my own game I'll try to fix the patch2.pack itself, so the fix is always available.

[Ryker]

There is more: The crew sizes mostly don't fit...

[HMS England]

I feel alone here, but Galleons are a mystery to me, they are trade ships historically added with guns later on to deal with pirates in the Caribbean, but I had no idea they freaking loaded them down with heavy cannons as that would take away from their capacity to transport.

But, Galleons are actually some where inbetween 4th rates and 3rd rates leaning more to the 3rd rate side. Tactics are always good but no matter how you approach it a brig can never take out a 1st rate so most of the time it really comes down to what your price range is. (as a wise man once said to wage war you need money, money, and yet more money) It's also impacted by what you do on land. The best way is to atleast get a 2nd rate which if I remember correctly are only like 600 coins per turn to upkeep and you can get them as early as you get the technology probably around the 1715-1720 area at least for me. The smartest thing is probably to create individual navies consisting of 1 2nd rate+ ship of the line and just capture galleons individually by taking out their masts, and grape shotting them until surrender. As for early, on, it really comes down to luck haha which you're gonna need alot of

[Incomitatus]

Never took a brig against a 1st rate, but 1v1 they do just fine against 3rd rates, 4th rates, and galleons, if you know what you're doing. I've done this in both vanilla and in DMUC (which makes the naval battles more realistic, and using the wee ships harder).

Just repeat after me: chain-shot, chain-shot, chain-shot... all together now: CHAIN-SHOT...

[TheJim]

I actually find that they are easy to defeat by ensuring you have the wind advantage, and whittling their sails away with chainshot from sloops, as the galleons are ridiculously slow. Then use ball shot until they are routing, then use grapeshot before boarding them.

Using 5 sloops and 3 Fourth Rates one can easily beat 6-7 galleons. Stay out of range, destroy their sails, finish them with 4th rates.

[Draeger]

hate hate hate hate hate hate hate galleons.

i tend to avoid naval combat and in fact war altogether with the spanish for this very reason until i can muster enough 4th rates to challenge them, or until some other AI sap blows them out of the water first.

playing as the spanish right now, finding that no matter what i do my navy wins. galleons are god-mode and can effectively rule the seas---blocking enemy ports to prevent them from building anything that could challenge them has proved a largely successful strategy.

where spain falls short is its army, largely undertrained and ineffective against similarly sized british and dutch (their two biggest rivals) armies.

but build enough galleons and woah boy you can ride that rape train through the rest of the game.

[FlaviusJulius]

I have been practicing taking on a Galleon 1 on 1 with a 5th Rate, a 6th Rate and even a Brig as Britain. It was easiest with the 6th rate. Leave your old 6th rates at various Caribbean Ports after they become obsolete and the Pirates will occasionally bring you a new Galleon. Chain shot them from a distance with your superior range and stay out of the range of their guns with your superior speed and maneuverability. After their masts are gone ease up to either their front or rear just to within grape shot range, and grape shot them until they surrender. Repairs are usually 0 to fix sails and masts.

[trueman11]

Some of the naval guns in patch2.pack fire the wrong ammo because there are to many entries in the gun_to_projectiles table(6 instead of 5 for three of the guns, 4 instead of 3 for the 32lb carronade).
The naval 6lb gun fires the bullet for the 42lb rifled gun.
I just deleted the extra entries from patch2.pack (overwriting didn't work) and the galleons firepower dropped from 370 to 130, the forth rates firepower dropped from 297 to 121.
Unfortunately the third rates grew a little strong in the process, since they had the nominally heavier guns, look at the attached picture and you'll see that no ship uses 42lb guns so there is a major screw up in that db.
There is a naval_gun_fix mod around somewhere, so maybe try that, for my own game I'll try to fix the patch2.pack itself, so the fix is always available.

Here's my fix for this, and also ship balancing by fixing wrong gun battery types ships used:

https://www.twcenter.net/forums/show...mple-naval-fix