self explanatory...
Libertus
How would America be if Britain won the American Revolution?
self explanatory...
"We are nothing without brotherhood, and brotherhood is nothing without your brothers"-We Came as Romans
Biarchus
Re: How would America be if Britain won the American Revolution?
There would have been no US of A...
Kidding. It could have become something like Australia: Constitutionally past of the Commonwealth while is a republic de facto. And having a Queen like Elizabeth II as the constitutional head of state is awesome.
Vicarius
Re: How would America be if Britain won the American Revolution?
It is a fairly awesome system I have to sayOriginally Posted by Argeus the Paladin
Minister for Home Affairs of the Commonwealth v Zentai [2012] HCA 28 per Heydon J at [75]
Analysis should not be diverted by reflections upon the zeal with which the victors at the end of the Second World War punished the defeated for war crimes. The victors were animated by the ideals of the Atlantic Charter and of the United Nations. The Universal Declaration of Human Rights was about to peep over the eastern horizon. But first, they wanted a little hanging.
Praefectus
Re: How would America be if Britain won the American Revolution?
I think there's a Harry Turteldove book on this.
edit: here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Two_Georges
Last edited by Jingles; March 18, 2010 at 01:26 PM.
Ecce Homo
Re: How would America be if Britain won the American Revolution?
"Canada" would cover the entire continent north of Mexico.
Artifex
Re: How would America be if Britain won the American Revolution?
But could it even be anything like the Canada we know today? Wouldn't the seat of Continental power still be in a city such as Boston, New York, or Philadelphia?
Under the Patronage of Lord Condormanius
Ecce Homo
Re: How would America be if Britain won the American Revolution?
My point wasn't that Ottawa would be the seat of power. But that the nation that resulted would be "Canadian" in its way of life. Hence the quotations on Canada.
Civis
Re: How would America be if Britain won the American Revolution?
I would have to disagree with this statement, bear with me on this; as there is two parts to this argument.
First prior to the American War of independance AWI Canada was pretty much still being assimilated into the Empire as a colony from the French. The major settlement of Canada happend after 1783 as many of these refugees were coming from what is now the USA. They were still licking their wounds from the injustices served to them by the patriots and try to scratch out a living. Major settlements like Brantford Ont. (Followers of Joesph Brant settled there and his house is now part of Parks Canada) These folks were mostly "Americans " minus the fact that they still had a belief in the Constitutional monarchy, or forced out due to injustices done to them in the name of Liberty. So Canada would not be the same as it is now; but would the other 13 colonies take on the persona of what Canada is now? Ask any Canadian Historian the defining moment and uniting factor of what Canada is today and seperates them form the states. Their answer would be the War of 1812 the major splitting faction. After theat the Fenian raids that called out militias saying I am Canada. Would any British Colony have habored the threat as long as the US did and let them break out into Canada. Without these defining moments there would be no Canada as we know it today. No McKenzie, no NW police, no RCMP, no Quebec sepertist movement, and no Willam Shatner and Deforest Kelly and worst of all no Bea Arthur and only the GOds know what the world would be without Golden Girls.
If the AWI would not have split the Colonies apart the Aboltion of Slavery in the empire, would have created a revolution in the South.
Last edited by Hannover; April 13, 2010 at 09:20 PM.
Kings 8th Regiment of Foote Lyte Coy.
Nec Aspera Terrent
hoi polloi
Re: How would America be if Britain won the American Revolution?
I'm not so sure. A British controlled America would add a lot difference. First off Canada very much grew out the the situation that was. With a huge loyal Anglo NA would the UK fate of Quebec have been different - the UK might pursue a forced Anglo-izing policy. How bout slavery - it one thing to get rid of it when you only loose a few brutal cane producing colonies but how about when you a how south full of loyalists and slavery that can survive and thrive w/o the trade?My point wasn't that Ottawa would be the seat of power. But that the nation that resulted would be "Canadian" in its way of life. Hence the quotations on Canada.
IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites
'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'
But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.
Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.
vezir-i âzam
Re: How would America be if Britain won the American Revolution?
When I think about a British North America I think how big it would be. How much of North America would Britain hold...would they conquer the Indian tribes to the west and extend their authority to the Pacific coast? How about further conflicts with New Spain/Mexico? And without the USA they would be no Louisiana Purchase so it is possible the French could still have a part to play.
Praepositus
Re: How would America be if Britain won the American Revolution?
No Mcdonald's, KFC and Burger King, but Jim Brown's Fish'n'Chips.
"Per Ballista ad astra!" - motto of the Roman Legionary Artillery.
Republicans in all their glory...
Civitate
Re: How would America be if Britain won the American Revolution?
The US would be part of the Commonwealth, either as its own nation or as part of Canada. Perhaps it would hold the borders it does today, perhaps Mexico would be rather bigger and maybe there would be a seperate country holding the West Coast depending on whether Britain got there first, though we did get to the Canadian West Coast so we probably would have.
More interesting would be the Great War. With the US part of the Empire, would Germany be so keen to fight us for naval supremacy? With all the revenue and populace the US had at the time, our fleet would be even bigger than it actually was (nor the Royal Navy in itself, but Commonwealth navies were largely regarded as arms of the RN). The Great War may have been a repeat of the Franco-Prussian war, and as such no WW2!
Re: How would America be if Britain won the American Revolution?
I think the better question is what would have happened had the Revolution been avoided. The problem with colonizing the Americas in that period was the sheer problem of command and communication. It took weeks for London's directives to be received by British troops in the field.
Still, the Revolution could easily have been avoided had London gotten more of a clue as to what was really going on. Barbara Tuchman used the loss of America as a prime example in her book The March of Folly. If London had listened to what the Americans were saying and been a little bit accommodating (such as finding a way for the Colonies to have a stake in Parliament -- not necessarily easy because of the communication issue but entirely possible) then bloodshed could have been avoided completely and the Colonies would have remained loyal. But the authorities in London were clueless and arrogant and made several bad assumptions about conditions in the Americas.
Civitate
Re: How would America be if Britain won the American Revolution?
But wasn't one of the big reasons for the Revolution that Britain had deals with the Native tribes to not move Westward, whereas many of the colonials wanted to move into Native land?
Under the Patronage of Jom!
Comes Rei Militaris
Re: How would America be if Britain won the American Revolution?
Napoleon Sold Louisiana to the US. Without a United states then Nappy would never have sold that province. In all likely hood one could imagine the British colonies of invading that province but for the sake of chance they didnt than could we potentially have a french speaking country in the midwest and a Spanish West Coast.
sage
Re: How would America be if Britain won the American Revolution?
I wonder if it actually suited our purposes, given autonomy the yanks could expand beyond where british diplomacy could go. Then at the same time were and still are a massive trading partner.
Formerly quetzalcoatl. Proud leader of STW3 and member of the RTR, FATW and QNS teams.
Centenarius
Re: How would America be if Britain won the American Revolution?
Well, I think Britain would be free to take a lot of America, that's for sure. Without the Americans, the British Empire might have continued to conquer most of the world, even more so than it already did.
"I've read the last page of the Bible. It's all going to turn out all right"
-Billy Graham
When did you become interested in politics?
The very instant I became old.
sage
Re: How would America be if Britain won the American Revolution?
that’s true, in fact with america as british, I think the world would be british by 1900, who could stop something that powerful.
i expect there would still be uprisings, terrorist, maybe powere struggles within, eventually leading to different blocks of power.
Formerly quetzalcoatl. Proud leader of STW3 and member of the RTR, FATW and QNS teams.
Comes Rei Militaris
Re: How would America be if Britain won the American Revolution?
You guys are forgetting the Mexican American War and the Texas war of Independence. Texas was a province of Mexico was populated mainly by Americans but in a different timeline would the now british colonialist feel the same way about moving to and leading a revolution in Texas. And then theres the following war that ceded so much territory to America. Would Britain have started such a war in the first place?
Civitate
Re: How would America be if Britain won the American Revolution?
Well, if Texas joined the Empire the Mexicans would still be getting uppity, and Britain did have eyes on California. Assuming the Mexicans caused the same problems for the Empire as they had for the States, the war may well have went ahead with Britain attempting to seize California.
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