Welsh Kingdoms

**Gelert** · March 17, 2010, 10:39 AM

Hey guys, haven't played your mod before but the new version you are working on with the huge map looks brilliant. I was just wondering if you have any plans to include the Welsh kingdoms in the mod or maybe in another future version, similarly to how you have different Scottish factions? For example the Kingdoms of Gwynedd, Powys, Deheubarth, those three were the most influential ones. Wales wasn't a unified country, just would be pretty cool if these factions were included

Just a suggestion!

**The Bruce** · March 19, 2010, 03:32 PM

At the time of our mod Wales was essentially conquered. You will be able to play Wales by commanding the last significant rebellion under Madog ap Llywelyn in 1294.

**Hresvelgr** · March 25, 2010, 03:06 PM

Really? Because your main thread says most campaigns start in 1282, the start of the final major war, when Gwynedd was still a kingdom ruled by Llywelyn the Last. Will the Welsh be given the same attention as other factions, like reskins or whatever? Just wondering, because usually if Wales is included in a mod it gets jacked. I just want the Kingdoms of the Isles to be the penultimate British Isles mod. That would be awesome.

In response to the OP: Although Wales was still independent at this time, IIRC it was pretty much just Gwynedd left and even if you pushed the mod back the the beginning of the 1200's there'd be no real point in including more Welsh kingdoms because they were all either under English rule, or in the case of Dehuebarth and Powys, vassals of Gwynedd, which created the Principality of Wales that lasted until 1282, which IIRC is when the campaign in the mod begins, hopefully leaving time to play as Wales and avert this tragedy. I am expecting a book on the Scottish and Welsh Wars during the period covered in the mod, so if you need another researcher, I volunteer. At least when the book arrives.

**The Bruce** · March 26, 2010, 02:35 AM

To call the events of 1282 a major war is stretching it a bit. Although there were subsequent campaigns, Wales had already ceased to have any viable chance at independence. That is why I said "essentially" conquered and not completely conquered.

In fact our mod campaigns will probably now begin in 1294. Welsh players can take control of the rebellion led by Madog ap Llywelyn. Unfortunately for Wales we are attempting to portray the British Isles with historical accuracy and in our time period this can not include a strong independent Wales. However, if successful, the Welsh player can be proud of leading a rebellion against all odds.

There are no plans to reskin Wales at the moment. Wales will be a minor faction that will quickly succumb to England if under AI control. Under human control, playing Wales will be very hard indeed. Perhaps an earlier Welsh campaign could be created eventually.

**Hresvelgr** · March 26, 2010, 09:32 AM

Aw, that's a shame. Well, if you do need another researcher to help with the Scottish Wars, I might still be of some use. That Osprey book about it just arrived in the mail. Focuses a bit too much on the nobles and knights, however.

**wilddog** · March 28, 2010, 02:10 AM

There are other mods in progress which were covering this time period (1282) and include Wales.

That was the reference to Prince's in our title.

**The Bruce** · March 28, 2010, 05:14 PM

Well we do include Wales - just that it is a doomed nation if AI controlled.

PKH may well offer the Welsh player a better chance.

**wilddog** · March 29, 2010, 01:24 AM

PKH may well offer the Welsh player a better chance.

Its just more central to our mod and always has been.The time setting was our only issue on whether to start slightly earlier.. but if we include a mini campaign it will be set on the marches.

**The Bruce** · March 29, 2010, 02:28 AM

We too debated the start times and the inclusion of Wales was one reason to start earlier. However controlling the Scottish succession which triggered the wars of independence was too tricky. Starting in the 1290s makes this easier and gets the English, Scots and French into major conflicts sooner.

Even in 1280 a Welsh faction is pretty much certain to be overwhelmed by England if historical accuracy is held paramount. For gameplay's sake we will give the Welsh a player a fighting chance with the rebellion of 1294.

**smoesville** · November 08, 2010, 03:57 PM

Will the rebellion mean that Wales starts as a horde or will they begin with territory?

**The Bruce** · November 08, 2010, 06:51 PM

One settlement probably.

**The Border Reiver** · November 09, 2010, 01:34 AM

As Bruce said one settlement probably due to the inherent problems with hording factions not taking settlements and keeping them. The problem with KOTS3 was that the Welsh became a powerhouse too early and ended up owning most of the midlands!

**smoesville** · November 09, 2010, 04:27 AM

Really? For me in KotS3 the Welsh tend to get their ass handed to them by the English with an occasional weird horde that take somewhere like london or oxford. It may be that i'm usually ireland and so there isn't any troops drawn up north like my macdonald campaign. The ai always wants the player dead over the other ai which is fine except it can lead to things like that.