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  1. #1

    Default Imperialism in the US and Europe.

    Why is it that European countries look down on the US for its so called Imperialism, when not 60 years ago it was the largest group of Imperialist know to man. An English person on another forum was complaining about the US and Imperialism but failed to consider the UK did the same on a grander scale.
    So my question is why are Europeans so quick to say "I hate the USA for being Imperialist" when not too long ago they were doing the same thing? Isn't that hypocritical?

    Some charts and Maps for some background.
    British Empire
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    Default Re: Imperialism in the US and Europe.

    Well to be fair, many of those who are against american imperialism are against any kind of imperialism. The US is the superpower of the world and as such will always be subject to criticism.

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    Default Re: Imperialism in the US and Europe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phillieas_Caesar View Post
    Why is it that European countries look down on the US for its so called Imperialism, when not 60 years ago it was the largest group of Imperialist know to man. An English person on another forum was complaining about the US and Imperialism but failed to consider the UK did the same on a grander scale.
    So my question is why are Europeans so quick to say "I hate the USA for being Imperialist" when not too long ago they were doing the same thing? Isn't that hypocritical?

    Some charts and Maps for some background.
    British Empire
    Africa
    simple answer: jealousy
    your british counterpart probably belonged to a small group of british who pine for the days when the sun never set on the British Empire

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    Default Re: Imperialism in the US and Europe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch View Post
    simple answer: jealousy
    your british counterpart probably belonged to a small group of british who pine for the days when the sun never set on the British Empire
    It does today?
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  5. #5

    Default Re: Imperialism in the US and Europe.

    Keep in mind it's a mixture of those who berate their own countries for past imperialism and those who criticise American imperialism for it's hypocrisy.
    "If I have done any noble action, that is a sufficient memorial; if I have done nothing noble, all the statues in the world will not preserve my memory."
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    Manco's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Imperialism in the US and Europe.

    I don't really see how coming from a once imperialist country nullifies criticism to modern imperialist countries?

    (though the nature of American and European imperialism is vastly different)

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    Default Re: Imperialism in the US and Europe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phillieas_Caesar View Post
    Why is it that European countries look down on the US for its so called Imperialism, when not 60 years ago it was the largest group of Imperialist know to man.
    You should'nt presume what the opinions of a huge continent with millions of people are based on a comment made on the internet.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Imperialism in the US and Europe.

    It's not about imperialism, it's about absurd PR rationale behind it.

    Times have changed. In the height of colonial power, British Empire was ruled by a monarch who could, by definition, afford truly long term decisions and thus needed not appeal to voters.

    USA has ambition, reach sufficient to secure resources globally and lifestyle to uphold; it's obvious that it cannot sustain itself and must look outwards. This often means treading on many a toe, which is fine. In Europe we understand it well - throw a stick here and you will hit a former great power, almost everyone has had their go at greatness at some point in history.

    What really tends to annoy, though, is the degree to which American internal politics dictate official agenda. In other words, elected leader must somehow combine running the country (which often involves making unpopular decisions) and leading the election party (which involves being a stone cold populist).

    This, in turn, has helped create a whole industry of ters and spin doctors whose job is to smooth out "government's message" to secure re-election. We should know because this is the core of New Labour's legacy - institutionalised BS. And therein lies the point - Europeans don't hate America, they hate American BS.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Imperialism in the US and Europe.

    Most European countries has abandoned imperialism. We don't for example attack countries far from our shores, unless it's in defense of an ally or a UN chartered mission or in self defense.

    Most European countries (all?) were imperialistic in the start of 20th century. Even Norway pursued an imperialistic ideal. This lead to all the polar exploration we conducted, and is why we claim a large chunk of the south pole, the Bouvet Island, Jan Mayen, Svalbard and so on.

    We even tried to claim Greenland for ourselves (we owned it 'originally' (first European nation), but when Denmark annexed us in 1530 we lost it. Greenland and Iceland wasn't transferred to Sweden in 1814 so when we gained independence in 1905, Denmark still possesed it.), we annexed it in 1930 I think it was. Obviously the Danes objected, and Norway lost their claim to Greenland in the Hague.
    Have you ever seen Dirty Harry Guns and money are best diplomacy
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    Default Re: Imperialism in the US and Europe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ishoss View Post
    Most European countries has abandoned imperialism. We don't for example attack countries far from our shores, unless it's in defense of an ally or a UN chartered mission or in self defense.

    Most European countries (all?) were imperialistic in the start of 20th century. Even Norway pursued an imperialistic ideal. This lead to all the polar exploration we conducted, and is why we claim a large chunk of the south pole, the Bouvet Island, Jan Mayen, Svalbard and so on.

    We even tried to claim Greenland for ourselves (we owned it 'originally' (first European nation), but when Denmark annexed us in 1530 we lost it. Greenland and Iceland wasn't transferred to Sweden in 1814 so when we gained independence in 1905, Denmark still possesed it.), we annexed it in 1930 I think it was. Obviously the Danes objected, and Norway lost their claim to Greenland in the Hague.
    Don't forget the Norwegianization and the Sami revolt in Guovdageaidnu, ending with the Alta controversy.
    Thorolf was thus armed. Then Thorolf became so furious that he cast his shield on his back, and, grasping his halberd with both hands, bounded forward dealing cut and thrust on either side. Men sprang away from him both ways, but he slew many. Thus he cleared the way forward to earl Hring's standard, and then nothing could stop him. He slew the man who bore the earl's standard, and cut down the standard-pole. After that he lunged with his halberd at the earl's breast, driving it right through mail and body, so that it came out at the shoulders; and he lifted him up on the halberd over his head, and planted the butt-end in the ground. There on the weapon the earl breathed out his life in sight of all, both friends and foes. [...] 53, Egil's Saga
    I must tell you here of some amusing tricks the Comte d'Eu played on us. I had made a sort of house for myself in which my knights and I used to eat, sitting so as to get the light from the door, which, as it happened, faced the Comte d'Eu's quarters. The count, who was a very ingenious fellow, had rigged up a miniature ballistic machine with which he could throw stones into my tent. He would watch us as we were having our meal, adjust his machine to suit the length of our table, and then let fly at us, breaking our pots and glasses.
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  11. #11

    Default Re: Imperialism in the US and Europe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sivilombudsmannen View Post
    Don't forget the Norwegianization and the Sami revolt in Guovdageaidnu, ending with the Alta controversy.
    Isn't that assimilation? We already 'owned' their land.
    Have you ever seen Dirty Harry Guns and money are best diplomacy
    "At a football club, there's a holy trinity - the players, the manager and the supporters. Directors don't come into it. They are only there to sign the cheques."

    Bill Shankly

    "Not badly, considering I was seated between Jesus Christ and Napoleon"

    David Lloyd George was pleased with his performance at Versailles.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Imperialism in the US and Europe.

    The most interesting part about it is that the US gave up on its (very small, in comparison) imperialist experiment around the same time the Euros did, but still get called 'imperialistic' by masses of ignorants.
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    Default Re: Imperialism in the US and Europe.

    Quote Originally Posted by motiv-8 View Post
    The most interesting part about it is that the US gave up on its (very small, in comparison) imperialist experiment around the same time the Euros did, but still get called 'imperialistic' by masses of ignorants.
    Which I would attribute to the general tendency to always blame the superpower of the world and since the US is the only one, it's easy to just blame everything bad in the world on them.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Imperialism in the US and Europe.

    Quote Originally Posted by motiv-8 View Post
    The most interesting part about it is that the US gave up on its (very small, in comparison) imperialist experiment around the same time the Euros did, but still get called 'imperialistic' by masses of ignorants.
    That's got to do with the ''Cold War Imperialism'' though, the quite blatant US intervention in various warzones and their support of maniacs, which are the roots of many of today's problems.
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    Default Re: Imperialism in the US and Europe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phillieas_Caesar View Post
    Why is it that European countries look down on the US for its so called Imperialism
    I'm not british, but I assume because they got rid of theirs dark side.

    An English person on another forum was complaining about the US and Imperialism but failed to consider the UK did the same on a grander scale.
    I doubt he had much say in what his country did long ago. And how do you messure an Imperial Scale?? Local or global economic control?

    So my question is why are Europeans so quick to say "I hate the USA for being Imperialist" when not too long ago they were doing the same thing? Isn't that hypocritical?
    Not known to Europeans, but americans: UK is offcourse one empire of the great European Empire Confederation. Each country was actually an empire and ruled the world very imperialisticly less then a century ago.
    Last edited by Kjertesvein; March 17, 2010 at 11:20 AM.
    Thorolf was thus armed. Then Thorolf became so furious that he cast his shield on his back, and, grasping his halberd with both hands, bounded forward dealing cut and thrust on either side. Men sprang away from him both ways, but he slew many. Thus he cleared the way forward to earl Hring's standard, and then nothing could stop him. He slew the man who bore the earl's standard, and cut down the standard-pole. After that he lunged with his halberd at the earl's breast, driving it right through mail and body, so that it came out at the shoulders; and he lifted him up on the halberd over his head, and planted the butt-end in the ground. There on the weapon the earl breathed out his life in sight of all, both friends and foes. [...] 53, Egil's Saga
    I must tell you here of some amusing tricks the Comte d'Eu played on us. I had made a sort of house for myself in which my knights and I used to eat, sitting so as to get the light from the door, which, as it happened, faced the Comte d'Eu's quarters. The count, who was a very ingenious fellow, had rigged up a miniature ballistic machine with which he could throw stones into my tent. He would watch us as we were having our meal, adjust his machine to suit the length of our table, and then let fly at us, breaking our pots and glasses.
    - The pranks played on the knight Jean de Joinville, 1249, 7th crusade.













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    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
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    Default Re: Imperialism in the US and Europe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phillieas_Caesar View Post
    Why is it that European countries look down on the US for its so called Imperialism, when not 60 years ago it was the largest group of Imperialist know to man. An English person on another forum was complaining about the US and Imperialism but failed to consider the UK did the same on a grander scale.
    So my question is why are Europeans so quick to say "I hate the USA for being Imperialist" when not too long ago they were doing the same thing? Isn't that hypocritical?

    Some charts and Maps for some background.
    British Empire
    Africa
    Simply when you're number 1 you get blamed for everything. I mean there are unprovoked insult on Americans from people from obscure locations. some guy thousands of miles away just hating you for being some stereotype in his mind? they're stupid.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    and every day i wish Allah would strike europe down.

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    Default Re: Imperialism in the US and Europe.

    every country is itching to be no.!

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    Default Re: Imperialism in the US and Europe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phillieas_Caesar View Post
    Why is it that European countries look down on the US for its so called Imperialism, when not 60 years ago it was the largest group of Imperialist know to man. An English person on another forum was complaining about the US and Imperialism but failed to consider the UK did the same on a grander scale.
    So my question is why are Europeans so quick to say "I hate the USA for being Imperialist" when not too long ago they were doing the same thing? Isn't that hypocritical?

    Some charts and Maps for some background.
    British Empire
    Africa
    its not you and me doing this anyways...it is governments. So there is no point in being mad at simple citizens.
    "Therefore I am not in favour of raising any dogmatic banner. On the contrary, we must try to help the dogmatists to clarify their propositions for themselves. Thus, communism, in particular, is a dogmatic abstraction; in which connection, however, I am not thinking of some imaginary and possible communism, but actually existing communism as taught by Cabet, Dézamy, Weitling, etc. This communism is itself only a special expression of the humanistic principle, an expression which is still infected by its antithesis – the private system. Hence the abolition of private property and communism are by no means identical, and it is not accidental but inevitable that communism has seen other socialist doctrines – such as those of Fourier, Proudhon, etc. – arising to confront it because it is itself only a special, one-sided realisation of the socialist principle."
    Marx to A.Ruge

  19. #19
    MathiasOfAthens's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Imperialism in the US and Europe.

    European countries are not really going around and making Empires anymore... so Europeans are not being hypocritical when they criticize the US for Imperial actions.

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    Jaketh's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Imperialism in the US and Europe.

    we are not imperialist, i wish we where though nobody could stop us

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