Could the Danes have adopted Hellenic/Middle Eastern warfare?

[Argeus the Paladin]

This was one idea I thought of at a whim and now developing into somewhat of a pseudohistorical fanfiction. The idea itself is complex and very, very convoluted, no thanks to my trying to Time Kompress both EB and Medieval II and a certain anime into one plot.

One of the core component of it is the adoption of the Hellenic phalanges and the Eastern Cataphract by the Medieval Danish in an attempt to turn the table against the other European nations. My hypothesis is that the (in-story) Danish king managed to persuade Byzantine's Varangian Guards back into his service during a Crusade (They were of one blood and all, you see), and upon returning to their homeland they brought along the knowledge of the Cataphract and the late Diadochoi phalanx, and from then on all what the Danes needed to do was to adopt those tech accordingly.

But in a simulated reality, under what condition could this have happened?

Please be free to laugh at the ridiculosuness. This is just a hypothesis.

[FreeRadical]

Interesting since I am half Danish myself. I got to hand it to you Argeus,you come up with some inteersting topics. They conquered England under Canute the Great.Canute IV tried to invade England against an aged William the conqueror,but he couldn't handle the rebels in his kingdom who killed him before he got the chance.CanuteIV's eath ended the Viking age.Interesting is the fact that Valdemar II The Conqueror was asked by the Teutonic Knights for his aid.

They Danes were more focused on issues between themselves and Norway then others after the Viking age.I think they were more interested in conquering their peasantss than outsiders,and they probably wished they had the varangian guard and heavy cataphracts to aid the in fighting their own people.-lol

I saw Arn Knight Templar the movie series and in the second movie he drives off the Danes from his homeland.I was rooting more for the Norweigans than the Danes.Shows you how much a crazy diehard nationalist I am

[Phoebus]

Cataphracts? Maybe... though cataphract was little more than a term used to describe a heavily-armored cavalryman riding a heavily-armored mount. In that sense, I guess the question is whether the Danes would have made any moves toward the heavy cavalry model, period, since the concept (well, not so much the armored mount part) was known well enough in western Europe.

Hellenistic phalanxes? Those had been given up for some time. Unless said Varangians also spent their spare time reading up on Asclepiodotus, I don't know that they would have had any practical knowledge--never mind experience--regarding such formations.

[Argeus the Paladin]

Cataphracts? Maybe... though cataphract was little more than a term used to describe a heavily-armored cavalryman riding a heavily-armored mount. In that sense, I guess the question is whether the Danes would have made any moves toward the heavy cavalry model, period, since the concept (well, not so much the armored mount part) was known well enough in western Europe.

Hellenistic phalanxes? Those had been given up for some time. Unless said Varangians also spent their spare time reading up on Asclepiodotus, I don't know that they would have had any practical knowledge--never mind experience--regarding such formations.

Well, this is a project started for fun at the least. But in fact I am still serious about constructing a particular setting in which this theory can work.

The first factor I think of is that of a strong post-Viking administration that gives rise to a more stable military and economy system, but exactly how that should come about... I'm not exactly certain. A step away from the sea should be prudent IMO.

Thoughts?

[Salem1]

The main issue would be that Scandinavia was far too poor to afford this kind of thing. I also doubt that the cumbersome phalanx would've appealed to the Vikings in that age, they used the shield wall which was good enough and much more practical for such purposes, all you needed was a big shield, spear and some mates nearby and you had a shield wall while still retaining the flexibility of a normal soldier.

Again, Scandinavia would never be able to afford such heavy cavalry units, especially not in any significant amounts - and then there's the non-existance of any decent central authority to support either the cataphracts or the phalanxes. By the time Scandinavian countries developed decent central authorities, cataphracts and phalanxes were antiquated, Swiss pikemen were effective for a time but turned into fodder for the increasing amounts of gunpowder.

I'd say that you'd need a kind of state structure that just didn't exist in Denmark at the time. And of course whatever you'd come up with wouldn't have mattered against us Swedes

[FreeRadical]

The main issue would be that Scandinavia was far too poor to afford this kind of thing. I also doubt that the cumbersome phalanx would've appealed to the Vikings in that age, they used the shield wall which was good enough and much more practical for such purposes, all you needed was a big shield, spear and some mates nearby and you had a shield wall while still retaining the flexibility of a normal soldier.

Again, Scandinavia would never be able to afford such heavy cavalry units, especially not in any significant amounts - and then there's the non-existance of any decent central authority to support either the cataphracts or the phalanxes. By the time Scandinavian countries developed decent central authorities, cataphracts and phalanxes were antiquated, Swiss pikemen were effective for a time but turned into fodder for the increasing amounts of gunpowder.

I'd say that you'd need a kind of state structure that just didn't exist in Denmark at the time. And of course whatever you'd come up with wouldn't have mattered against us Swedes

Agrred completely with that statement. We Danes had thought we could control you Swedes for the longest time!Then you break free,and what do you do? You Swedes make some darn good attempts at conquering both us and the rest of World.