More accurate regions in Iberia

[Ravenant]

Well, I'm from Spain and I noticed some inaccurate distribution of regions in Iberia. Maybe you can change them in a future patch. The Crown of Castilla was divided historically in different Reinos (Kingdoms), as you can see in the image below:



Th Kingdoms of Sevilla, Cordoba, Jaen, Granada y Murcia were also Taifas (Arab kingdoms) during the Almohad Empire (1100 - 1200), so it would be wise to include them as regions. Also the Moors faction should be renamed to Almohad Empire in the Late Era Campaign, and Almoravid Empire in the Early Era Campaign

Also the heir of Castilla/Leon had the title of Prince of Asturias, so the region Principality of Asturias should be included too.

The title of King of Galicia was given usually to a son of the King of Castilla.

The Crown of Aragon (in Iberia) was divided in the Kingdom of Zaragoza, the Kingdom of Valencia, the Catalonian Counties and the Kingdom of Mallorca (Baleares).

For Portugal I don't have any suggestions.

Sorry for my english

[Mega Tortas de Bodemloze]

That's very informative Ravenant, thank you so much {un million de gracias, Caballero}. There is also constant updating going on in the sub-mod forum, so someone there may find this information very useful as well ...

[Awellesley]

I think what you have there is a very (for this mod) late map of Iberia. The challenge for a mod like this is to balance the starting positions with historically important regions that may have been relatively unimportant at the start. Plus, there are a limited number of regions available in this mod. What would be more helpful would be to suggest which regions currently in Iberia should be repositioned or renamed. Cheers.

[Ravenant]

I think what you have there is a very (for this mod) late map of Iberia. The challenge for a mod like this is to balance the starting positions with historically important regions that may have been relatively unimportant at the start. Plus, there are a limited number of regions available in this mod. What would be more helpful would be to suggest which regions currently in Iberia should be repositioned or renamed. Cheers.

At least the Reino de Sevilla/Kingdom of Seville/Taifa of Seville with the city of seville as capital should have to appear. Sevilla was an important city for the moorish almohads (they builded there the tallest building of the world after the Great Pyramid for some centuries: The Giralda, and letter was the comercial capital with the "Indias" (the canary islands and american territories) in the early spanish empire.

The Leon region should be renamed as Reino de Leon/Kingdom of Leon beacuase the Reino de Leon never ceased to exist.

The region of Burgos should be ranamed as Castilla la Vieja/Castille the Old or Reino de Castilla/Kingdom of Castille, as you like.

The region of Toledo should be renamed as Castilla la Nueva/Castille the New or Reino de Toledo/Kingdom of Toledo

The region of Badajoz should be of moorish culture and renamed as Taifa of Badajoz/Reino de Badajoz/Kingdom of Badajoz. Extremadura (literally: land of hard conditions... to inhabit) was a generic name for the borders of the christians kingdoms, and a modern name for the region. A Taifa was a moorish kingdom.

The region of Cordoba should be renamed as Taifa of Cordoba/Reino de Cordoba/Kingdom of Cordoba. Andalusia is the modern english name of the region (spanish Andalucia). At least you could use the moorish name: Al-Andalus.

The region of Granada should be renamed as Taifa de Granada/Reino de Granada/Kingdom of Granada. Equally with Murcia.

The region of Valencia should be renamed as Reino de Valencia/Kingdom of Valencia. Equally with Zaragoza and Mallorca (Baleares Islands).

The region of Barcelona should be reamed as Condados Catalanes/Catalan Counties.

I think that's all


By the way, all christians kingdoms you see in the map were Taifas before in the Almohad Empire (i mean the half south ones), you can safely include them in the map. You should rename the moorish faction too.

[TheDougem]

Just out of curiosity, what exactly limits the number of regions? When people say it's a hard-coded value, is it something that would be inordinately difficult/impossible to overcome?

I'm livestreaming a campaign as Kingdom of Aragon and would personally love to see a greater density in Spain if it were possible. Historical Accuracy is also awesome, as is tangling with El Cid and having him annihilate one of your armies

[bɑne]

Just out of curiosity, what exactly limits the number of regions?

The game engine is designed to work with a specific max number of regions. Its enterely possible that it could handle more (if changed) but there is also a certain legality issue.

When people say it's a hard-coded value, is it something that would be inordinately difficult/impossible to overcome

Hard coding (also, hard-coding or hardcoding) refers to the software development practice of embedding input or configuration data directly into the source code of a program or other executable object, or fixed formatting of the data, instead of obtaining that data from external sources or generating data or formatting in the program itself with the given input.
So its not impossible per se but dissassembling or manipulating the game executable or anything connected to this would violate licencing agreements and "one or two" laws. I'd also expect it to generate new bugs or issues to go beyond the limit the game routine expect as I don't think that the limitation was set out of whim.

[Awellesley]

Just out of curiosity, what exactly limits the number of regions? When people say it's a hard-coded value, is it something that would be inordinately difficult/impossible to overcome?

I'm livestreaming a campaign as Kingdom of Aragon and would personally love to see a greater density in Spain if it were possible. Historical Accuracy is also awesome, as is tangling with El Cid and having him annihilate one of your armies

A hard coded value is the limit the game producers have made and cannot be overcome by legal means. The maximum number of regions the game engine excepts in 199.
When deciding when are where to place regions, one must be careful not to make an area too dense and create endless sieges. I believe that is why there are the number of regions currently in Iberia.

[Awellesley]

Thanks for your responses. I ask these questions because I know little about Medieval Iberia.
Here is a current map of Iberia in SS 6.1

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

And the settlement/provincial breakdown:

1. Lisbon/Estremadura
2. Oporto/Galicia
3. Leon/Leon
4. Salamanca/Salamanca
5. Badajoz/Extremadura
6. Silves/Algarve
7. Cordoba/ Andalusia
8. Toledo/Castile
9. Burgos/Burgos
10. Pamplona/Navarre
11. Zaragoza/Aragon
12. Barcelona/Catalonia
13 (does not well show in picture)Palma/Baleares
14. Valencia/Valencia
15. Murcia/Murcia
16. Granada/Granada

I know that you have answered some of these questions already, but assuming that we don't want to add or subtract any regions, how would you rearrange or rename these regions? And doesn't Taifa refer to its political state (somewhat independent of the Caliphate) rather than its actual name?

[Ravenant]

1. Lisbon/Estremadura
2. Oporto/Galicia
3. Leon/Leon
4. Salamanca/Salamanca
5. Badajoz/Extremadura
6. Silves/Algarve
7. Cordoba/ Andalusia
8. Toledo/Castile
9. Burgos/Burgos
10. Pamplona/Navarre
11. Zaragoza/Aragon
12. Barcelona/Catalonia
13 (does not well show in picture)Palma/Baleares
14. Valencia/Valencia
15. Murcia/Murcia
16. Granada/Granada

I know that you have answered some of these questions already, but assuming that we don't want to add or subtract any regions, how would you rearrange or rename these regions? And doesn't Taifa refer to its political state (somewhat independent of the Caliphate) rather than its actual name?

Ok. This is what Wikipedia say about Taifas:


In the history of the Iberian Peninsula, a taifa (from Arabic: طائفة‎ ṭā'ifa, plural طوائف ṭawā'if) was an independent Muslim-ruled principality, usually an emirate or petty kingdom, though there was one oligarchy, of which a number formed in the Al-Andalus (Moorish Iberia) after the final collapse of the Umayyad Caliphate of Córdoba in 1031.
The origins of the taifas must be sought in the administrative division of the Umayyad Caliphate of Córdoba, as well in the ethnic division of the elite of this state, divided among Arabs, Berbers, Iberian Muslims (known as Muladíes - the overwhelming majority) and Eastern European former slaves.
There was a second period when taifas arose, toward the middle of the 12th century, when the Almoravid rulers were in decline.
During the heyday of the taifas, in the 11th century and again in the mid 12th century, their emirscultural prestige. They tried to recruit the most famous poets and artisans. (rulers) competed among themselves, not only militarily but also for
Reversing the trend of the Umayyad period, when the Christian kingdoms of the north often had to pay tribute to the Caliph, the disintegration of the Caliphate left the rival Muslim kingdoms much weaker than their Christian counterparts, particularly the Castilian-Leonese monarchy, and had to submit to them, paying tributes known as parias.
Due to their military weakness, taifa princes appealed for North African warriors to come fight Christian kings on two occasions. The Almoravids were invited after the fall of Toledo (1085), and the AlmohadsLisbon (1147). These warriors did not in fact help the after the fall of taifa emirs but rather annexed their lands to their own North African empires.
Taifas often hired Christian mercenaries to fight neighbouring realms (both Christian and Muslim). The most dynamic taifa, which conquered most of its neighbours before the Almoravid invasion, was Seville. Zaragoza was also very powerful and expansive, but inhibited by the neighbour Christian states of the Pyrenees. Zaragoza, Toledo, and Badajoz had previously been the border military districts of the Caliphate.

The Taifas, basically, were emerging from time to time, you could easily use them as regions. Nervertheless this are my suggested regions:

If you want to use english names:



1. Lisbon/Kingdom of Portugal
2. Compostela/Kingdom of Galicia
3. Leon/Kingdom of Leon
4. Seville/Taifa of Seville
5. Badajoz/Taifa of Badajoz (This region historically owns the half-north of sixth region, but the the whole Portugal would look weird, wouldn't it?)
6. Silves/Taifa of Algarve
7. Cordoba/Taifa of Cordoba or al-Andalus (al-Andalus was all moorish territories in Iberia)
8. Toledo/New Castile
9. Burgos/Old Castile
10. Pamplona/Kingdom of Navarre
11. Zaragoza/Kingdom of Aragon
12. Barcelona/Catalan counties
13 Majorca/Kingdom of Majorca
14. Valencia/Kingdom of Valencia
15. Murcia/Taifa of Murcia
16. Granada/Taifa of Granada

You can change Kingdom or Taifa, according to the year. Please, notice that Cordoba is north from the river, Seville east/south from the river, and Granada north from the mountains.

If you want to use original languages regions (designated for Late Era Campaign):

1. Lisboa/Reino de Portugal
2. Compostela/Reino de Galicia
3. León/Reino de León
4.Ishbiliya/Ta'ifa Ishbiliya
5. Batalyaws/Ta'ifa Batalyaws
6. Xilb/Ta'ifa al-Garb
7. Qurtuba/Ta'ifa Qurtuba or al-Andalus (al-Andalus was all moorish territories in Iberia)
8. Toledo/Castilla la Nueva
9. Burgos/Castilla la Vieja
10. Pamplona/Reino de Navarra
11. Zaragoza/Reino d'Aragón
12. Barcelona/Comtats catalans
13 Mallorca/Regne de Mallorca
14. València/Regne de València
15. Mursiya/Ta'ifa Mursiya
16. Madina Garnata/Ta'ifa Gar-anat


EDIT: And doesn't Taifa refer to its political state (somewhat independent of the Caliphate) rather than its actual name?

In the caliphate the regions, per se, didn't have a name, but from time to time, al-Andalus was divided in this Taifa kingdoms. The Taifa was an actual name (in the arab languaje the word Taifa is included). The political name was emirate.

Hope this may help you