Scottish Independence?

[pericles_plato]

I was reading about Scotland and i noticed that there are some Scottish parties who are trying to get Scotland as it's own country and out of G.B.

Does anyone here support an Independent Scotland?

[morda8]

i think most scots dont even care about independance but SNP (scottish national party) want it for some reason

[The_Valiant]

i think most scots dont even care about independance but SNP (scottish national party) want it for some reason

Kind of contradictary. The SNP have a majority in the Scottish Parliament. Would you vote in a man who's ideas you dont believe in? If the SNP want independence, and they have the majority, then the majority of Scots want independence.

It is, however, more of a dream. The economies of Scotland and England are very intertwined, and an economic seperation could ruin both countries. So the Scots will have a devolution, instead of evolution, and slowly seperate themselves from the UK.

[The.Delegate]

Well its hard to imagine Scotland independent again. I think if they wanted independence, then good for them. But they probably benefit quite a bit from being a part of the UK, and it's not like they are oppressed, Scotland has been the homeland of many very important personalities throughout the history of the UK.

[knight of virtue and valor]

Scotland would probably only succeed if the UK was falling apart and it was no longer a good thing to be part of them. My family came from Ireland, which seems to be a bit more uppity about its anti brit sentiment.

[Duke Lucifer]

Well, there was the McCrone report, commissioned by Thatcher, because she was looking for a document that would say Scotland would fail economically. However, it's findings were that Scotland would be a success, with an economy comparable to Norway's....
So of course, she suppressed it. It was released under the freedom of information act a few years ago.

There is obviously a fair interest in independence in Scotland, after all, the government in Hollyrood is an SNP government (albeit a minority one, constantly blocked by Labour and the Conservatives cooperating against it.)

[Copperknickers II]

The SNP are currently in control of the Scottish Parliament. They plan to hold a referendum at some point next year. If it passes, then we start the move to break away from the UK. The UK is falling apart, it is a terrible thing to be part of them. There is a large number of people in Scotland who support our independence, though not as much as we would like. There are some people who are vehemently opposed to the idea, but most people have just completely lost faith in politicians. The only reason that the SNP are in power is because of the Iraq war being so unpopular. Everyone decided they would be smart by putting a protest vote in to the SNP, but they ended up voting them in, even though in reality a large proportion of their voters didn't want Scottish independence, just independence from labour and the tories.

Labour is the traditional party of most of Scotland, but even with the battering labour has been taking the past 7 years, i am not optimistic about Scotland. The problem is that England, even the Tories, want Scotland to stay part of the UK, not really sure why.

[Duke Lucifer]

The SNP are currently in control of the Scottish Parliament. They plan to hold a referendum at some point next year. If it passes, then we start the move to break away from the UK. The UK is falling apart, it is a terrible thing to be part of them. There is a large number of people in Scotland who support our independence, though not as much as we would like. There are some people who are vehemently opposed to the idea, but most people have just completely lost faith in politicians. Labour is the traditional party of most of Scotland, but even with the battering labour has been taking the past 7 years, i am not optimistic about Scotland.

The problem is that England, even the Tories, want Scotland to stay part of the UK, not really sure why.

Unfortunately, both labour and the Tories are against the referendum, and will vote against us having it, thereby blocking it.

Hopefully the next Parliament at Hollyrood will be an SNP one with a clear overall majority...

Then we'll see some movement forward.

[Jom]

The UK is falling apart, it is a terrible thing to be part of them.

What exactly are the negatives sides of being part of the UK? Before you start on the financial situation line, I will remind you that RBS (Royal Bank of Scotland for those not in the know) required the largest bailout of all from Westminster.

There is a large number of people in Scotland who support our independence, though not as much as we would like.

There is a large minority of people but the mark is never really high enough to justify such a drastic move. For more information, see: http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/scottish-independence

The problem is that England, even the Tories, want Scotland to stay part of the UK, not really sure why.

There's a very large shared cultural heritige between the two countries, obviously extremely strong economic ties, and there's also the issue of North Sea oil. If it fell into Scottish jurisdiction, how would the use of infrastructure subsidised by the British - i.e. not uniquely Scottish - taxpayer be justified? I think it also boils down to the fact that there is no overwhelmingly strong argument for independence. Scotland is not repressed by England; she can pursue her own domestic policy and can send MPs to Westminster in order to vote on Acts of Parliament affecting the union as a whole.

As a half-Scottish, half-English person who has spent a large portion of my life living in Edinburgh, I feel fairly qualified to comment on these issues.

[Jaketh]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Boyar Son]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

you died for nozink!

[The_Valiant]

You have to wait and see what happens. Remember, there is such a thing as the British Commonwealth, EU, and UN. Scotland could become part of the Commonwealth, retain economic ties with UK while it builds up the rest of its independence. Join the EU and get a few delegates in the UN, and they're a nation like any other.

[pericles_plato]

Personally I want Scotland free of the UK. They could still be apart of the Commonwealth like The_Valiant said,
"You have to wait and see what happens. Remember, there is such a thing as the British Commonwealth, EU, and UN. Scotland could become part of the Commonwealth, retain economic ties with UK while it builds up the rest of its independence. Join the EU and get a few delegates in the UN, and they're a nation like any other."

Then Ireland and Scotland could be like brothers, .

[Lord Claremorris]

Personally I want Scotland free of the UK. They could still be apart of the Commonwealth like The_Valiant said,
"You have to wait and see what happens. Remember, there is such a thing as the British Commonwealth, EU, and UN. Scotland could become part of the Commonwealth, retain economic ties with UK while it builds up the rest of its independence. Join the EU and get a few delegates in the UN, and they're a nation like any other."

Then Ireland and Scotland could be like brothers, .

LOL, You want to see Scotland independent? Why? Because it looks better on a map? Look, I have personal opinions too, like I think Austria and Germany should be united, but I'm not going around saying they should be. I realise my desire for this union is romantic "all German" nationalist nonsense and that it's unlikely to happen. Me, being neither Austrian or German (as I assume you are not Scottish or English), does not really care about the economic/social/cultural impact this will have on the two countries. If you should say Ireland though, I would be vehemently against any Union of Northern and Southern Ireland, in the present conditions anyway. A large amount of Prods who don't want union, and who's economy is faring worse than ours. Our prosperity will be lessened, and those discontented Prods would surely resist, causing much bloodshed. So even though I'd like to see the map of Ireland one colour, I don't want to pay for my nationalist dreams with my money and the blood of my countrymen.

[pericles_plato]

LOL, You want to see Scotland independent? Why? Because it looks better on a map? Look, I have personal opinions too, like I think Austria and Germany should be united, but I'm not going around saying they should be. I realise my desire for this union is romantic "all German" nationalist nonsense and that it's unlikely to happen. Me, being neither Austrian or German (as I assume you are not Scottish or English), does not really care about the economic/social/cultural impact this will have on the two countries. If you should say Ireland though, I would be vehemently against any Union of Northern and Southern Ireland, in the present conditions anyway. A large amount of Prods who don't want union, and who's economy is faring worse than ours. Our prosperity will be lessened, and those discontented Prods would surely resist, causing much bloodshed. So even though I'd like to see the map of Ireland one colour, I don't want to pay for my nationalist dreams with my money and the blood of my countrymen.

I'm 50% English, 30% Irish i believe 10% Scottish Everything else is Cherokee, Italian, Scandinavian, Spanish, Jewish, and basically all the other European countries.

[Lord Claremorris]

I'm 50% English, 30% Irish i believe 10% Scottish Everything else is Cherokee, Italian, Scandinavian, Spanish, Jewish, and basically all the other European countries.

As I figured, an American. And what interest does an American have in seperating Scotland from the UK? Not to try to sound condescending or mean, but how does that affect you in any way? And who are you to wish to change the lives of the people who live in other countries?

[Jom]

As I figured, an American. And what interest does an American have in seperating Scotland from the UK? Not to try to sound condescending or mean, but how does that affect you in any way? And who are you to wish to change the lives of the people who live in other countries?

I think we should refrain from the personal attacks. I actually welcome the input of non-interested parties who are more likely to be objective than fuelled with ridiculous nationalistic pride.

[mrpants]

Oh look a picture that reminds us how little clue people have about Scottish history or culture.

Im half Scottish half English also, lived in Scotland most my life. I see my national identity as British with a keen interest in the west Scottish and north east English sides to my ancestry.

England and Scotland have always been linked by culture, no matter how hard the SNP try to promote the Irish Gaelic side ignoring the fact most of Scotland spoke Scots (a dialect of English, oh the horror).

The SNP are like the tourist shops in Edinburgh, selling this tartan shortbread highland image of a fake Scotland that only exists in romantic Victorian literature.

Its not like there is some English hegemony over Scotland it was a Scottish king that united the crown's, and we do have a Scottish Prime minister.

Just think how Scotland would have fared in the financial crisis if we were independent and following the SNPs former poster boys, the Celtic tiger Ireland and little Iceland. Two Country's well and truly raped by the global financial kak storm. How would RBS be doing and the wider Scottish economy without that evil English money?

[Copperknickers II]

England and Scotland have always been linked by culture, no matter how hard the SNP try to promote the Irish Gaelic side ignoring the fact most of Scotland spoke Scots (a dialect of English, oh the horror).

Scots is not a dialect of English my friend, it is a leid o' itself (language of its own). It was originally descended from Anglic, the language of the Angles, rather than the Anglo-Saxon hybrid that developed into English. Of course now we actually speak Scottish English most of the time, which is a mixture of Scots and English. Scotland and England were always completely separate countries up until the union of the crowns, sometimes friendly, othertimes not so much. Scotland and England can still be linked by culture without being the same country, look at Canada and the USA, Kosovo and Serbia, etc.

The SNP are like the tourist shops in Edinburgh, selling this tartan shortbread highland image of a fake Scotland that only exists in romantic Victorian literature.

Tartan is our heritage, and shortbread is delicious. I might go and have some now.

Its not like there is some English hegemony over Scotland it was a Scottish king that united the crown's, and we do have a Scottish Prime minister.

Exactly. But the fact is, English people have the right to decide on things that affect Scotland, and by definition, English people are not considering Scotland's interests. Scotland is a socialist country, England is much more conservative. We have different values, or why would we all consistently vote labour when England votes Tory - Labour - Tory - Labour - Tory...

Just think how Scotland would have fared in the financial crisis if we were independent and following the SNPs former poster boys, the Celtic tiger Ireland and little Iceland. Two Country's well and truly raped by the global financial kak storm. How would RBS be doing and the wider Scottish economy without that evil English money?

What about Belgium, Luxembourg, Andorra? Other small countries did ok, and noone is suggesting we completely separate ourselves from England, just that we have complete autonomy. We would still need military protection of the UK, for example.

[Yorkshireman]

Exactly. But the fact is, English people have the right to decide on things that affect Scotland, and by definition, English people are not considering Scotland's interests. Scotland is a socialist country, England is much more conservative.

Thats all changed since devolution, Scotland has its own parliament that decides many matters solely for Scotland, Scottish MP's also sit in Westminster and vote on matters that only concern England.

We have different values, or why would we all consistently vote labour when England votes Tory - Labour - Tory - Labour - Tory...

Half of England consistently votes Labour, Scotland is no different than those areas in the north of England or the large cities. You realise we've had a Labour government since 1997 ?