Does Anyone Use Fire and Advance or Diamond Formation?

I play vanilla on the hardest level.

I have not messed with the fire and advance button yet. By the time my men are in position to fire they are shooting and dropping like flies or, it’s time to charge them in to give the cavalry a chance to flank.

And diamond formation doesn’t seem to hit home like a good line up on the enemies flank with standard Calvary formation. Is it junk?

Can anyone who plays vanilla on hard let me know their tactics and if they use fire and advance or diamond formation please?

Thanks!

I don't use either. Both seem completely worthless.

Should have kept Fire by Rank...

Diamond formation isn't entirely useless. It does seem to increase mobility by allowing quicker direction change, but I generally don't use it.

Diamond formation is great in melee fights be it against infantry or cavalry as it cuts through the enemy splitting them up and making them less effective. However if you want to cause maximum casualties on the charge then pull out a long line is the better option.

i like wedge better than diamond so i never research it

Fire and advance is useful for units with a good charge (Grenadiers and Russians come to mind) because if you issue an attack command rather than leaving them to fire at will, the unit charges after the last line has fired. As for diamond formation I don't use it much, except in certain circumstaces such as when I have a narrow gap in my own units I'd like to charge through, or if I want to punch a hole in the enemy ranks. It can be effective to first form your units into a two or three line formation and THEN switch to diamond, because then once you've used diamond to punch your hole you can toggle back to line and the unit will spread out, further splitting the victim unit. Sometimes the novelty formations are best strategically implemented for very short periods of time in conjunction with standard formations. This however requires a lot of micromanagement.

Edit: Fire and advance is also VERY useful for the Russians, who have a great charge bonus but a rather lackluster reload skill. Each man in a fire-and-advance drill fires his musket only once: thus he does not need to reload until after the melee, and thus his reload skill does not factor into the equation at all.

Originally Posted by StrawberryDUTCH

Fire and advance is useful for units with a good charge (Grenadiers and Russians come to mind) because if you issue an attack command rather than leaving them to fire at will, the unit charges after the last line has fired. As for diamond formation I don't use it much, except in certain circumstaces such as when I have a narrow gap in my own units I'd like to charge through, or if I want to punch a hole in the enemy ranks. It can be effective to first form your units into a two or three line formation and THEN switch to diamond, because then once you've used diamond to punch your hole you can toggle back to line and the unit will spread out, further splitting the victim unit. Sometimes the novelty formations are best strategically implemented for very short periods of time in conjunction with standard formations. This however requires a lot of micromanagement.

Edit: Fire and advance is also VERY useful for the Russians, who have a great charge bonus but a rather lackluster reload skill. Each man in a fire-and-advance drill fires his musket only once: thus he does not need to reload until after the melee, and thus his reload skill does not factor into the equation at all.

what your saying is all true one thing for the diamond formation tho it improves mobility going left and right and narow coriidors as you said and once you reached your target you can also switch back to rank formation and hit them harder so the point is diamond formation is for greater manouvering.

Originally Posted by spacemandan

what your saying is all true one thing for the diamond formation tho it improves mobility going left and right and narow coriidors as you said and once you reached your target you can also switch back to rank formation and hit them harder so the point is diamond formation is for greater manouvering.

also for fire and advance the rule of thumb in any war game is to gain ground so the fire and advance is usefull to gain ground whilst holding the enemy rather then one or the other its two bird with one stone.

what most of these guys are saying is true and usefull information so couple things that have been untouched first diamond formation is also usefull for manouvering tight coriddors , second fire and advance is also usefull for gaining ground while fighting your opponent rather than one or the other.

Fire and advance is very useful if the unit is firing on an enemy's flank. If you put a regiment into range of the enemy and have them enter fire and advance mode, but don't designate a specific target, they will go through the drill with all ranks firing, then return to their original position and repeat the drill; in this manner they will keep up near constant volleys on the enemy (and it actually is a few seconds faster than ETW's fire by rank due to the faster reload times in NTW). The morale hit is pretty significant and will quickly rout any unit that cannot respond to the fire. Using fire and advance with a specific target has the unit commence a charge after the last rank has fired, and like others have noted, it is very useful for Russia. Be advised though, that when a unit is in fire and advance mode, their range is shortened by about 10 or 20 meters, so you need to be slightly closer than usual for your units to engage.

Diamond formation is extremely useful when you need to perform a cavalry charge that is near-parallel to the enemy line, as the flank of a line presents a very thin target to charge normally. Another use is for diamond is when you simply want your horsemen to go through an enemy line. Why would you want to do this? Well, imagine that your opponent has a line of infantry guarding a line of howitzers. If you move your own infantry into range to absorb the first volley of the enemy, your cavalry is then free to run straight through the enemy line in order to reach the howitzers. A cavalry unit in diamond will be able to force its way through the enemy line with a much lower likelihood of being pulled into a melee with the infantry.

Don't use the diamond. Use the Fire & Advance sparingly, usually when my line is facing lower quality enemy units that may have a lower rate of fire or will break easily with casualities.

Originally Posted by Keiichi

Fire and advance is very useful if the unit is firing on an enemy's flank. If you put a regiment into range of the enemy and have them enter fire and advance mode, but don't designate a specific target, they will go through the drill with all ranks firing, then return to their original position and repeat the drill; in this manner they will keep up near constant volleys on the enemy (and it actually is a few seconds faster than ETW's fire by rank due to the faster reload times in NTW). The morale hit is pretty significant and will quickly rout any unit that cannot respond to the fire. Using fire and advance with a specific target has the unit commence a charge after the last rank has fired, and like others have noted, it is very useful for Russia. Be advised though, that when a unit is in fire and advance mode, their range is shortened by about 10 or 20 meters, so you need to be slightly closer than usual for your units to engage.

Diamond formation is extremely useful when you need to perform a cavalry charge that is near-parallel to the enemy line, as the flank of a line presents a very thin target to charge normally. Another use is for diamond is when you simply want your horsemen to go through an enemy line. Why would you want to do this? Well, imagine that your opponent has a line of infantry guarding a line of howitzers. If you move your own infantry into range to absorb the first volley of the enemy, your cavalry is then free to run straight through the enemy line in order to reach the howitzers. A cavalry unit in diamond will be able to force its way through the enemy line with a much lower likelihood of being pulled into a melee with the infantry.

Wow, never knew that. Thanks!

Diamond is mainly best on enemy cav, youll wipe out their centre before the others can react...

I find fire and advance VASTLY superior for several reasons. For one your units spread out slightly so they take up more space, spreading the line to make flanking maneouvers harder for your opponent. The fact all of your troops get to fire (not just the front rank) means you are firing a greater number of shots in the same time, which means higher casualties from the enemy... I can't understand why you WOULDN'T want that... there are no drawbacks to F&A and I've just given two benefits (plus the Ruskie charge, also effective with other nations against weakened or inferior units, makes a total of three).

Originally Posted by Smokey_MkII

There are no drawbacks to F&A and I've just given two benefits (plus the Ruskie charge, also effective with other nations against weakened or inferior units, makes a total of three).

The one (and sometimes it can be a big one) disadvantage is that it takes a unit in fire and advance drill a little bit longer to set up. Every man has to get in place before the shooting starts, empire style. That's why it's best to use it either offensively when the unit in question isn't taking lead, or defensively when your men stand in formation until the enemy comes into range.

for one
fire by rank taken out was a good thing

never use fire and advance; useless imo
i occasionally use diamond formation. its effective if ure planning on charging multiple inf units one after the other. in diamond the cav makes an easy paht through the infantry unit after the initial charge, so they wont get caught up in melee

fire and advance + grenadiers = win

Diamond formation is all about how easy you can change your direction when this is needed.The diamond formation is helpfull espesially for light cavalry. Idea is to avoid the contact with enemies counter heavy cavalry. Hit and run attacks with Light cavalry (Hussars) and with the Diamond ability they can escape without suffer casualties.
Fire and Advance is good if you want to go in a melee fight after getting some shooting. Better works for Grenadiers with the ability of throwing grenades.
A tactic that is used here is to be stationaty and shooting the enemy infantry. When they get closer change to Advance and go melee and decimate them.

I do not use any of them. Too bad there is no fire by rank any more...
Fire and advance could be good, but because it changes the formation of unit I am having a hard time with managing it properly...And I am just too lazy to try more and try again. And firing only from the first rank of line seems to work very good so I do not see the need for fire and advance drill.