problem with byzantines

[garudamon11]

hi , im playing as oman and i tried to be peaceful the whole time so i can build up my eco until mongols arrive and become weak , hoping that i can get the biggest parition from them

at something around 1260 the mongols were about to collapse so i decided to start making an army , to my surprise the mongols declared war at me and took my most percious region , hormuz
so they burned it and sent the money i wasted on building it up down the drain it was apparently not enough though , they attacked gwadar and captured it as well
now my eco was sucking cause i was getting half my money from hormuz and i was still conquering yemen from rebels ( yeah im such a slow noob ) and i had 2 large armies there , i was trying to build an army in nizwa but it was very hard due to the large upkeep .... i was hoping the mongols wont attack my mainland ... but they did
they captured qatar and then suhar , i was about to restart but then the gozhni sultanate or whatever its called declared war on mongols , the tide turned and more nations declared war on mongols , including byzantines
i recaptured suhar and qatar but someone else took hormuz and gwadar already , so i took basra and ahvaz instead
5 turns later the mongols disappared from the map , it SHOULD be good news but it wasnt , for the byzantines now had EXACTLY the same land the ottomans had prior to ww1 and they werent at war with anyone

in 1290 ( not sure ) it said something about a warlord named osman thinking he is destined to rule the world ... at the same turn the turkish sultanate died
but now the byzantines are unstoppable , any suggestions ?
thanks for reading

[The Noble Lord]

Well, eventually you would have to get in touch with the Byzantines and you would have to fight them. Be aware of their heavy cavalry and infantry. As Oman you don't have much choice, you would have to go north and expand, so be ready for them.

[garudamon11]

well they did declare war and i got pwned so now i restarted a new campaign ... oman is fun !

[Dago Red]

in 1290 ( not sure ) it said something about a warlord named osman thinking he is destined to rule the world ... at the same turn the turkish sultanate died

Yes that makes perfect sense! Osman was the founder of the Ottoman empire, which replaced the Sultanate of Rum there.

[garudamon11]

Yes that makes perfect sense! Osman was the founder of the Ottoman empire, which replaced the Sultanate of Rum there.

no its not that , the turkish sultanate was dead long ago and when osman came it was re-created and it died again , on the same turn it was re-established

[Dago Red]

That's only because it is a scripted event apparently. The script has Osman come out at some point to establish the Ottoman reforms/empire in place of the Turkish sultanate I guess. Maybe it's not fully implemented.

In any case, he emerged in the 1290's .. but there's no way to prevent the Turks from being destroyed before then, if they get destroyed in your game then, the script may not make perfect sense depending on ho i'ts worded and what provinces are owned by whom. Although if I recall, you can simply build your way into the Ottoman era as the Turks so i'm not sure what the script does.

[garudamon11]

what i meant is , when osman comes and captures a region , the turkish sultanate will be re-created if it doesnt exist already , and on the same turn he was destroyed by romans
imagine reading " a mighty warlord named osman thinks hes destined to rule the world .... " and on the same turn reading " the turkish sultanate has been destroyed ! " ..... get it ?

[Jaytee]

Yes, as the KOJ I had this event happen only for nothing to happen after that. It's completely pointless, just like the uprising in North Africa some time in the game, the rebel units that appeared just stood there doing nothing and eventually dissapeared, no idea what happened to them.

[Dago Red]

Ha, well his aspirations were greater than his ability!

It just sounds like the script can't scale the event to fit the reality of the game. As soon as you press end turn that first time, you're creating/altering the game reality... so an event that comes almost 100 years later has no way of fitting in well. All of Anatolia could be Christian by then, or part of a new Abbasid Caliphate who knows.

Sounds like it's supposed to supplant a fracturing Turkish Sultanate, but if they are already surrounded/defeated by a powerful Roman resurgence then it fails. In my experience, the Turkish Sultanate never lasts long.... played them myself and even though I won battle after battle after battle, I could not get ahead and was eventually crushed between Romans, Armenians, Georgians, and KoJ.... ridiculous.

Turkish Sultanate is too easily destroyed...idealy they should be a horde faction, able to withstand losing all cities, and able to move capitols on a whim - as they really did.

[wudang_clown]

All of Anatolia could be Christian by then, or part of a new Abbasid Caliphate who knows. [...]
Turkish Sultanate is too easily destroyed...idealy they should be a horde faction, able to withstand losing all cities, and able to move capitols on a whim - as they really did.

This is quite contradictionary, IMO.

Anatolia couldn't be Christian in it's whole because it got a huge shot of Turkmen population already. I can't imagine a mass scale convertion action or any kind of resettlement action directed by Christian states to make Anatolia Christian - there was no such power and idea then to organize such things (though Seljuk sultans managed to send some of nomads to the borderlands of their empire - that's the genesis of Rum sultanate, by the way).

So, Christian or not, with Rum sultanate strong or weak - Anatolia could still experience such event like appearance of some ambitious Turkic ruler.

[Dago Red]

This is quite contradictionary, IMO.

I meant "Roman" really... in any case, my point to the poster is just that the script that takes place is not sentient, it does not know all what has transpired in the game since you began playing it 100 turns ago or 200 turns ago. So it may or may not fit perfectly in what is going on at the time.

AS in his game, it did not seem to make sense and did not work so well!


@ Jaytee, the Turks are wiped out or at least diminished in all my games so far which only amounts to 4 campaigns and once I was playing them myself. But I have been playing on M & H settings not VH so maybe there is a balance thing with the way it was tested. Coming from APE :TI (that's an ETW mod) i learned that playing on Vh makes no sense... but maybe here it does... i'll start another thread.

[wudang_clown]

In any case, my point to the poster is just that the script that takes place is not sentient, it does not know all what has transpired in the game since you began playing it 100 turns ago or 200 turns ago. So it may or may not fit perfectly in what is going on at the time.

Of course it's not 'sentient' - it would require much work to make the event more dynamic, and who knows how many script lines it would require. Anyway, I think there's a possibility of improving the event at least a bit and we will try to do it.

[Jaytee]

Turkish Sultanate is too easily destroyed...idealy they should be a horde faction, able to withstand losing all cities, and able to move capitols on a whim - as they really did.

Not to get off topic but I always get the complete opposite of this. Turkey always destroys ERE and also Georgia and Armenia with the help of the Kypchaks and Seljuks.

[garudamon11]

yea , they should get better units

[Dago Red]

Well I think it's cool the way it is, but, since it doesn't always work perfectly well I'd look forward to some improvements too!

What about Turkish Sultanate as horde faction? That's what their roots were and when Kilij Arslan returned to Nicea to fend off the Crusader army (in 1096) - upon seeing how many and well armed they were, unlike the Poeple's crusade that had come before, which he vanquished he said screw this and just left - even though it was his capitol.

It made more sense to him, a nomadic warrior at heart, to simply leave and set up his court elsewhere then ruin his army against so many full-plate clad psychos. It seems like they could have survived any invasion by simply packing up and moving, providing they still had a Sultan to lead them.

[Qarama]

Well I think it's cool the way it is, but, since it doesn't always work perfectly well I'd look forward to some improvements too!

What about Turkish Sultanate as horde faction? That's what their roots were and when Kilij Arslan returned to Nicea to fend off the Crusader army (in 1096) - upon seeing how many and well armed they were, unlike the Poeple's crusade that had come before, which he vanquished he said screw this and just left - even though it was his capitol.

It made more sense to him, a nomadic warrior at heart, to simply leave and set up his court elsewhere then ruin his army against so many full-plate clad psychos. It seems like they could have survived any invasion by simply packing up and moving, providing they still had a Sultan to lead them.

hmm something like the Huns in the R:TW addon?

[Innersilence]

I liked the horde idea for the Turks.

[Dago Red]

I'm not sure what happens playing Turks after this osmand (Ottoman) event cause i've not made it that far yet, but it makes sense to have them a horde faction up to that point not after, where they are certainly too rooted.

Maybe they are already too settled at this point but most commentary suggests their nomadic roots are still fresh...

On the battle for Nicea, Turkish Sultan, Kilij Arslan's capitol, when the First Crusade arrived there. Arslan had hastily returned to defend it with his army that had been off assaulting another Turkish Sultan's city to the east and thought it wiser to simply abandon it (rather then continue to take on the entire Crusader army):

"To persist in throwing all his forces into such an ill prepared battle might prolong the siege for several weeks, or even months, but would threaten the very existence of his Sultanate. As the Scion of an essentially nomadic people, Kilij Arslan felt the source of his power lay in the thousands of warriors under his command, and not the possession of a city, however enchanting it might be..." - P. 12 "The Crusades Through Arab Eyes" by Amin Maalouf

So he simply left. It was not cities, even their capitol that defined them (unlike most other civilizations) but the people, warriors and Sultan himself.

[Qarama]

I'm not sure what happens playing Turks after this osmand (Ottoman) event cause i've not made it that far yet, but it makes sense to have them a horde faction up to that point not after, where they are certainly too rooted.

Maybe they are already too settled at this point but most commentary suggests their nomadic roots are still fresh...

On the battle for Nicea, Turkish Sultan, Kilij Arslan's capitol, when the First Crusade arrived there. Arslan had hastily returned to defend it with his army that had been off assaulting another Turkish Sultan's city to the east and thought it wiser to simply abandon it (rather then continue to take on the entire Crusader army):

"To persist in throwing all his forces into such an ill prepared battle might prolong the siege for several weeks, or even months, but would threaten the very existence of his Sultanate. As the Scion of an essentially nomadic people, Kilij Arslan felt the source of his power lay in the thousands of warriors under his command, and not the possession of a city, however enchanting it might be..." - P. 12 "The Crusades Through Arab Eyes" by Amin Maalouf

So he simply left. It was not cities, even their capitol that defined them (unlike most other civilizations) but the people, warriors and Sultan himself.

well, didn't the russians did the same when Napoleon entered Russia?