Stealing in a First world country

[Exarch]

Most of us live in First world countries, where the state and society already provide for everything: food, lodgings, medicare, etc etc.
However, in such civilised societies, we have some of the most lenient punishments for theft the world over; as far as i'm concerned, there's no excuse for stealing something which you could work for anyway; about the only reason i can see for stealing is pure greed, opportunistic greed.

take Bernie madoff for eg; greedy little with his ponzi schemes, was he starving when he stole those billions? was his family in dire need of $$$ to survive? no, it was pure unadulterated greed that made him steal and to top it off, he's jsut going to get life in prison at the ripe old age of 70+, never mind how many ppl whose life savings were wiped out.

so here's what i propose, given that as far as i'm concerend, there's no excuse for stealing in a first world country.
for a first time offender over the ageof 18, and if the value of the stolen goods is over $50 we hack off a finger with this:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

because that over 18 yo could've worked for whatever it was he wanted to steal, valued at over $50; it was pure greed and laziness that made him steal, rather than work for the money to buy what he wanted-thusly,
since he's proven he doesnt want to use his hands and fingers for work, but, rather, to steal, we should take a finger.

now, say it's over $50, but under $1, 000,000 like a nice car, i say we should take a whole hand, with the same rationale as above. that thief wasnt going to be needing that hand to work-he wanted ot steal-deprive him of it!!

ok, now let's take someone who's made off with billions.
i say we cut off both his hands and nail them to the senate door so that ppl will know what the penalty for being a thief is

[Angrychris]

Lol you obviously arent from a ghetto.

[Sir Winston Churchill]

Just because it's a First World country doesn't mean it doesn't have poverty and extremely unfair circumstances. No matter where you go there will be someone who honestly needs to steal to sustain himself and his family.

Yea, asshats like Madoff have no excuse, but he's getting life in prison (even though as you said it's way under-punished). We don't need to go back to barbaric ways of cutting people's fingers off because they steal.

Honestly, not everyone can get a job, that's why there is an unemployment rate. Not everyone can make money, so not everyone can afford something as basic as food. Do you honestly expect someone who is just plain unlucky to just sit there and starve?

[Exarch]

Just because it's a First World country doesn't mean it doesn't have poverty and extremely unfair circumstances. No matter where you go there will be someone who honestly needs to steal to sustain himself and his family.

Yea, asshats like Madoff have no excuse, but he's getting life in prison (even though as you said it's way under-punished). We don't need to go back to barbaric ways of cutting people's fingers off because they steal.

Honestly, not everyone can get a job, that's why there is an unemployment rate. Not everyone can make money, so not everyone can afford something as basic as food. Do you honestly expect someone who is just plain unlucky to just sit there and starve?

but we have welfare that should be able to provide for food and bills; the essentials are provided for by the government.

[Sir Winston Churchill]

but we have welfare that should be able to provide for food and bills; the essentials are provided for by the government.

Have you ever received a welfare check before? It's horrible, and unfortunately welfare does not go on forever, there is a point you don't get anymore, let alone pay for all the costs of living and debt that is racked up.

Plus welfare also puts a strain on the economy of the nation, money cannot just appear and be given to whoever, it has to come from somewhere. It usually adds on to the growing debt in most first world nations today, which isn't good at all.

[Phier]

Oddly I don't think very many, or quite frankly anyone is stealing in the US because they are starving.

Lets not play the whine card here. Spend a day in a criminal court watching all the slap on the wrists for shop lifting sometime.

[cfmonkey45]

Would suck for kleptomaniacs.

"Exarch, why are you discriminating against me?"

[Sir Winston Churchill]

Oddly I don't think very many, or quite frankly anyone is stealing in the US because they are starving.

Lets not play the whine card here. Spend a day in a criminal court watching all the slap on the wrists for shop lifting sometime.

Sorry if I was coming off as if saying the US is only stealing for food, I'm just saying some people do, and chopping off their fingers would be an over-the-top punishment.

[Phier]

Sorry if I was coming off as if saying the US is only stealing for food, I'm just saying some people do, and chopping off their fingers would be an over-the-top punishment.

I agree...

[43rdFoot]

Madoff's scheme meant that he had to keep stealing even if he didn't want to. He was a victim of his own monster.


And hopefully he'll never see the light of day again.

[Monarchist]

Most of us live in First world countries, where the state and society already provide for everything: food, lodgings, medicare, etc etc.

The state has provided food and morality; thus, food and morality are debased. This is the only part of the post that matters. When the state provides all, human beings lose the sense of manly responsibility that defines our species. First world states are all evil right now, even if America and the U.K. retain some good capitalists. Spare thy people, oh God, from this terrible tragedy of government!

[Exarch]

The state has provided food and morality; thus, food and morality are debased. This is the only part of the post that matters. When the state provides all, human beings lose the sense of manly responsibility that defines our species. First world states are all evil right now, even if America and the U.K. retain some good capitalists. Spare thy people, oh God, from this terrible tragedy of government!

some things i'm fine with the state taking care of: postage for eg, roads, healthcare etc; i gladly pay my taxes and the medicare levy when it's time.

what i'm talking about, is rather, people stealing for greed; even the most poverty stricken in first world countries can afford to be fed; there are soup kitchens as well if things get that bad, not to mention, most food is fairly cheap anyhow, especially in agri-first world nations like the USA, Canada, Australia, new zealand, france, etc etc.
so, sustenance is not a problem; greed is.

now, when i talk greed, i'm not referring to gordon gecko's greed is good thing; that, i got no problem with; the greed i'm talking about is the kind that leads to theft.
stealing, especially if it's a white collar crime, has no excuse.

now, for ppl who think i'm being too harsh with the amputation of the hand with the dane axe, well what if i decided to be lenient and said we should use this?:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

that's a medieval war hammer in case you wanted to know

[Monarchist]

what i'm talking about, is rather, people stealing for greed; ... so, sustenance is not a problem; greed is.

now, when i talk greed, i'm not referring to gordon gecko's greed is good thing; that, i got no problem with; the greed i'm talking about is the kind that leads to theft.

I respect you Exarch, but I must disagree! Humanity is the most despicable species in existence, for we are made in greed and overt selfishness. There would probably be less conning going on if we made a better effort to restrain our nature. No matter what "war-is-not-the-answer"-shouting liberal communist atheists say to you, our nature is essentially bad. This won't change in the foreseeable future, but the bad effects can be lessened by sensible religion. When more men believe in the restraints, punishments, and judgment of a harsh God, they are less likely to be scam-artists. Confidence tricksters have nothing left in the world but their own personality and lies.

[Arch-hereticK]

I respect you Exarch, but I must disagree! Humanity is the most despicable species in existence, for we are made in greed and overt selfishness. .

Not everyone is like that.
Just the ones without a sense of empathy.

There would probably be less conning going on if we made a better effort to restrain our nature.

Agreed

No matter what "war-is-not-the-answer"-shouting liberal communist atheists say to you, our nature is essentially bad..

Lol, but war is bad.

This won't change in the foreseeable future, but the bad effects can be lessened by sensible religion..

Bahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha, good one.

When more men believe in the restraints, punishments, and judgment of a harsh God, they are less likely to be scam-artists. .

Have you ever been to a church?
Also check out the religion level of convicts compared to the relevant state, you'll see the correlation of godlessness and criminality.

Confidence tricksters have nothing left in the world but their own personality and lies.

And the lies of their predeccessors.
Make the lie big enough and repeat it enough times........................

[★Bandiera Rossa☭]

I respect you Exarch, but I must disagree! Humanity is the most despicable species in existence, for we are made in greed and overt selfishness. There would probably be less conning going on if we made a better effort to restrain our nature. No matter what "war-is-not-the-answer"-shouting liberal communist atheists say to you, our nature is essentially bad. This won't change in the foreseeable future, but the bad effects can be lessened by sensible religion. When more men believe in the restraints, punishments, and judgment of a harsh God, they are less likely to be scam-artists. Confidence tricksters have nothing left in the world but their own personality and lies.

Humans are that way because they were born and grew up in a society in which that was the only way to survive and get ahead - human nature is always and directly tired to the material conditions in which people live.

[MaximiIian]

as far as i'm concerned, there's no excuse for stealing something which you could work for anyway

How 'bout doing it for the lulz? Or just to see if you can get away with it? Or how about kleptomania?
Oh, and you know, the sizeable portion of the population that simply does not have enough money to buy food regularly.

[Exarch]

How 'bout doing it for the lulz? Or just to see if you can get away with it? Or how about kleptomania?.

ppl of supposedly mature age, over 18s, should probably also consider amputating a finger 'for the lulz'.
i'm of course excluding college 'initiations' and whatnot;
kleptomaniacs should seek counselling.

Oh, and you know, the sizeable portion of the population that simply does not have enough money to buy food regularly

hunger rates in first world countries arent as bad as the third world; there are food stamps, soup kitchens, communal bakes etc. ppl can also beg if they had to, altho that's the very very very last thing they should do in my opinion.

[Fiyenyaa]

so here's what i propose, given that as far as i'm concerend, there's no excuse for stealing in a first world country.
for a first time offender over the ageof 18, and if the value of the stolen goods is over $50 we hack off a finger with this:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

because that over 18 yo could've worked for whatever it was he wanted to steal, valued at over $50; it was pure greed and laziness that made him steal, rather than work for the money to buy what he wanted-thusly,
since he's proven he doesnt want to use his hands and fingers for work, but, rather, to steal, we should take a finger.

now, say it's over $50, but under $1, 000,000 like a nice car, i say we should take a whole hand, with the same rationale as above. that thief wasnt going to be needing that hand to work-he wanted ot steal-deprive him of it!!

ok, now let's take someone who's made off with billions.
i say we cut off both his hands and nail them to the senate door so that ppl will know what the penalty for being a thief is

This is psychotic. Why the hell do we want to retard the justice systems of first world countries to Bronze-age might-equals-right societies? What the hell is this going to achieve except for making a load of people multiple amputees?

[Exarch]

This is psychotic. Why the hell do we want to retard the justice systems of first world countries to Bronze-age might-equals-right societies? What the hell is this going to achieve except for making a load of people multiple amputees?

because logically, these people shouldnt be stealing, and hacking off a thief's hand and nailing it to the senate doors will serve as a warning for would be thieves in the future. it's about crime prevention; we give the criminals no excuse for their crimes and punish them with the harshes punishments to prevent any future wrongdoing from potential thieves.

not everyone steals, as in the 'steal a car' etc etc

[Fiyenyaa]

because logically, these people shouldnt be stealing, and hacking off a thief's hand and nailing it to the senate doors will serve as a warning for would be thieves in the future. it's about crime prevention; we give the criminals no excuse for their crimes and punish them with the harshes punishments to prevent any future wrongdoing from potential thieves.

not everyone steals, as in the 'steal a car' etc etc

And what are we supposed to do with this mass of handless people? They aren't going to be productive members of society, are they? By punishing them in this way, you are denying them many forms of legitimate employment. It's really not sustainable.