Karabakh Peace within Reach?

[Armenum]

Let's not make this into another nationalistic rant and military comparrison thread. There's already enough of those kind of threads.

This is an excerpt from an interview with Azeri foreign minister

The Madrid principles include the return of the territories surrounding Nagorno-Karabakh to Azerbaijani control, an interim status for Karabakh providing guarantees for security and self-governance, and the future determination of the final legal status of Nagorno-Karabakh through a legally binding expression of will. The status of Karabakh is thought to be the key sticking point in the negotiations. Azerbaijan insists that Karabakh should remain within Azerbaijan, as is recognized by international law, while Armenia wants a different status for the territory."

The main subject of dispute is the interm status of Karabakh. During this interm period, according to Madrid Principles, the buffer regions to the south and east will be returned while displaced people will be able to return.



My first issue is that Azeris returning to Karabakh may create conflict with the Armenian popualce. I would think it would be better that Azeris who want to return, return to designated zones in Karabakh. The official interm status on the other hand is a tough question indeed.



The best thing after all this is done, that is also set out by Madrid Principles, is a referendum on the final status. Now this may turn violent since there will probably both Azeris and Armenians voting. The voting should be done carefully.



What may be a better proposal is that a Karabakh republic be created but it be created as multi-ethnic nation. Of course this would depend on the amount of Armenians and amount of Azeris living in Karabakh permanently after the interm status period. In such a multi-ethnic republic, there would be 2 official languages (Azeri and Armenian) with different schools for each of the groups. Maybe the state language could be Russian also. The government would be represented proportionate to amount of Armenians & Azeris respectively. This is just one idea that I think would be favoring Azeris given the current status of Karabakh.

[Dr. Oza]

why? a new nation will be weak

whoever has the most people in their and owned it traditionally should have it ...

[The.Delegate]

Why not just annex Nagorno-Karabkh and Nakhchivan to Armenia and be done with it? It's their land traditionally anyways. Azerbaijan is still a very young entity with little identity except for the general turkic culture. Armenia is a very ancient land and people; why should Azerbaijan get these lands and Armenia nothing?

[karo]

Armenian armed forces neutralize Azeri subversive grouping

12.03.2010 16:36 GMT+04:00

/PanARMENIAN.Net/ An Azeri subversive grouping which attempted to penetrate into the Armenian territory was neutralized in Koty village of Tavush region of Armenia on March 3 night, 1.30 am.

“The Armenian military detected a group of 5 people in civilian clothes and armed with special devices. A warning fire followed by a skirmish as result of which one of the Azeris was wounded and taken captive but died on the way to hospital. The others escaped to Azerbaijan. To prevent penetrations, the Armenian armed forces undertook extra security measures,” the Armenian Defense Ministry said in a statement.

Earlier the day, another Azeri grouping was detected. 3 subversives, who acted under the artillery cover of their accomplices, were dressed in black and were armed with guns. Two of them were killed.

The personal belongings and tattoos on the bodies of the subversives suggest that they served in Azerbaijan special forces and were members of Wahhabi movement.

http://panarmenian.net/news/eng/?nid=44100

[Atabeg]

Why not just annex Nagorno-Karabkh and Nakhchivan to Armenia and be done with it? It's their land traditionally anyways. Azerbaijan is still a very young entity with little identity except for the general turkic culture. Armenia is a very ancient land and people; why should Azerbaijan get these lands and Armenia nothing?

Azerbaijan is not any new entity.

Because both are our lands. Including Zengezur (now Syunik) and Goycha (now Tavush) that were given to Armenians during 1921.

1918 boundaries of Azerbaijan exactly included Nakhchivan, Zengezur, Karabakh and Goycha.

[white-wolf]

Hmmm, is the war starting?

[karo]

Hmmm, is the war starting?

Don't know but this is the second report of Azeir soldiers trying to penetrate inside Armenia, first time they were trying to steal some sheep (not joking)

[Atabeg]

That is false. Defence ministery already denied both. Stealing sheep? How laughable.

And why everything happens on the same spot? Koty, Tavush? First Armenian soldiers killed each other there and then your defence ministery said that the deaths were result of Azeri fire. Then those 2 laughable false statements, specially the first one. All at the same place.

[Atabeg]

Let make us one thing clear here. Azerbaijan would never agree for Karabakh to separate from itself.

But we are ready to give Karabakh Armenians a high autonomous status. However, first Armenians have to withdraw from at least 5 of 7 districts.

These are the options. There is no other one.

[Atabeg]

Let's not make this into another nationalistic rant and military comparrison thread. There's already enough of those kind of threads.

This is an excerpt from an interview with Azeri foreign minister

The main subject of dispute is the interm status of Karabakh. During this interm period, according to Madrid Principles, the buffer regions to the south and east will be returned while displaced people will be able to return.



My first issue is that Azeris returning to Karabakh may create conflict with the Armenian popualce. I would think it would be better that Azeris who want to return, return to designated zones in Karabakh. The official interm status on the other hand is a tough question indeed.



The best thing after all this is done, that is also set out by Madrid Principles, is a referendum on the final status. Now this may turn violent since there will probably both Azeris and Armenians voting. The voting should be done carefully.



What may be a better proposal is that a Karabakh republic be created but it be created as multi-ethnic nation. Of course this would depend on the amount of Armenians and amount of Azeris living in Karabakh permanently after the interm status period. In such a multi-ethnic republic, there would be 2 official languages (Azeri and Armenian) with different schools for each of the groups. Maybe the state language could be Russian also. The government would be represented proportionate to amount of Armenians & Azeris respectively. This is just one idea that I think would be favoring Azeris given the current status of Karabakh.

And what about Kalbajar, Lachin? To the west of Nagorno-Karabakh. They should also be returned.

And like said, such thing as "independent Karabakh" can never be a reality.

[Koelkastmagneet]

Autonomy for the region and a return of the Azeri populace will probably be best. (provided both sides don't go nuts and start massacring each other again)

[Atabeg]

Autonomy for the region and a return of the Azeri populace will probably be best. (provided both sides don't go nuts and start massacring each other again)

True.

What more do they want? Autonomy, Lachin coridor, right for Armenians to return to their places before the war elsewhere in Azerbaijan.

Isn't that a compromise? And what compromise are they talking about? Withdrawing from our occupied territorities? Thats not a compromise, thats how it sohuld be.

[Koelkastmagneet]

True.

What more do they want? Autonomy, Lachin coridor, right for Armenians to return to their places before the war elsewhere in Azerbaijan.

Isn't that a compromise? And what compromise are they talking about? Withdrawing from our occupied territorities? Thats not a compromise, thats how it sohuld be.

Hmm, didn't think I'd ever agree with you, Atabeg.

I believe what you've just states would be more then fair an agreement.

I just don't think the Armenian government would be too keen on such a deal

[white-wolf]

Hmm, didn't think I'd ever agree with you, Atabeg.

I believe what you've just states would be more then fair an agreement.

I just don't think the Armenian government would be too keen on such a deal

Seconded.

I think armenians looking for Greater Armenia. Look for how they utter the words; Karabagh, Nahcivan, Javakh, West-Armenia?

[Koelkastmagneet]

Seconded.

I think armenians looking for Greater Armenia. Look for how they utter the words; Karabagh, Nahcivan, Javakh, West-Armenia?

*sigh* Yeah, kinda sad isn't it.

In retrospect, the Ottoman Empire surviving wouldn't have been so bad for this region.

[Atabeg]

Seconded.

I think armenians looking for Greater Armenia. Look for how they utter the words; Karabagh, Nahcivan, Javakh, West-Armenia?

They have also this bullox.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Artsakh

[Atabeg]

Hmm, didn't think I'd ever agree with you, Atabeg.

I believe what you've just states would be more then fair an agreement.

I just don't think the Armenian government would be too keen on such a deal

The big problem is that neither the people want such thing.

Azerbaijan have always mentioned that its ready to provide all the security, rights and wealth to population of Karabakh.

But sadly, its just nearly impossible for a peace deal.

[karo]

But thats natural. You would also think like that if an other nation occupied 20% of your country and killed your people. All the hate started from Armenians. They began terrorizing in Karabakh. In return, some things happend in Baku and Sumqayit, then they make it like that is what made Armenians to start fighting in Karabakh. But everything started when Armenians killed a school boy in Karabakh.

Do you have any proof of this School boy being killed, and I mean real proof not Azeri proof. And some things happened LMAO, this is the reason why we will never agree about anything except independence. That is the road chosen by the people of Artsakh.

Autonomy for the region and a return of the Azeri populace will probably be best. (provided both sides don't go nuts and start massacring each other again)

Will not happen, the people have been gone for 20 years now. It's been almost a generation that they haven't liven on those lands, they can just roll back in and expect everything to be the same like it as before the war.

And what about the Armenian refugees? Will they be allowed to go back to their homes? Will they get their properties back? Every one is talking about the Azeri refugees.

[Atabeg]

Do you have any proof of this School boy being killed, and I mean real proof not Azeri proof. And some things happened LMAO, this is the reason why we will never agree about anything except independence. That is the road chosen by the people of Artsakh.


Will not happen, the people have been gone for 20 years now. It's been almost a generation that they haven't liven on those lands, they can just roll back in and expect everything to be the same like it as before the war.

And what about the Armenian refugees? Will they be allowed to go back to their homes? Will they get their properties back? Every one is talking about the Azeri refugees.

What road? Destruction? That will be the only outcome of this "road".

Are you serious about that? You occupy other territorities and force people to become refugees in their own country. How is that comparable.

[karo]

What road? Destruction? That will be the only outcome of this "road".

Are you serious about that? You occupy other territorities and force people to become refugees in their own country. How is that comparable.

it has been 20 years now and not has happened the only thing we hear from Baku are tough talks nothing more. You talk about destruction, I'll believe it when I see it.

What about the Armenians of Baku, Sumgait and Kirovabad. What about the destruction of everything Armenian in Nakhijean?