Macedonia or Epiros

[Carpathian Wolf]

I want to start a Phalanx based faction campaign that starts out small and isn't on the toughest end of the difficulty spectrum (since I plan to play them all and want to start easier and go to harder instead of the other way around.) Now Egypt and the Selucids are out since they start pretty big. I considered Pontos but they don't even have the pezhetairoi and seem a bit too unconventional for what I am looking right now. Another idea was Bactria but they're a bit far out there and lack an elite phalanx unit like the silver shields.

So that leaves me with Macedonia and Epiros both with pros and cons.

Macedon offers to me the whole "Macedonia" mystique to it all. I like their pikemen and of course the thracian units they can recruit like the Elite Thracian infantry. I also like that they have the companion cavalry. They also start surrounded by enemies and very relevant to the whole Diadochi wars going on.

Epiros is great also because well for one you get Phyrrus. They have pretty much the same pike units save for the reformed pikemen which i'm not all that crazy for. I much prefer the Thracian units over the Illyrian ones although they aren't bad. I also like elephants. I like fighting them, I like fighting with them. I don't like that Epiros doesn't have companion cavalry but they have Thessaly cavalry. Are they pretty much the same? What about the Molossian cavalry?


So which to pick? Another factor to focus on is that I think Epiros will get side tracked with conquests in Italy where as with Macedonia I can stamp out Epiros or set up some peace and focus on conquering all the way to India.

[torongill]

Well, If the thracian infantry is important, you can recruit them with Epeiros as well, if I'm to believe the recruitment viewer. Consider this - Epeiros was never a great country, although Pyrrus had great potential. Macedonia had once conquered the East, so any campaign might be like a deja vu, whereas with Epeiros, well, your imagination is the border You can rerwite history, show the potential of Pyrrus. True, that in the worst scenario with Epeiros you'll have to beat back the maks and the greeks, while at the same time stopping the Romans. All the more challenge if you ask me

In both cases you'll most certainly have to deal with the Getai and the Seleucids/Egypt.

[Team Sleep]

KH has phalanx as well. You have to develop your recruitment centers however. I find that difficulty wise that KH is a bit easier than the previous mentioned. However if you need phalanx to start...I would go w/ Mak. You can play somewhat conservative to start by repelling current incursions into your territory by Epeiros. Then You can spread southward into KH territory to gain hold of good sea trades or spread northward into rebel territory to snatch up some good mining settlements. The biggest starting con for Mak I would say is in the start of the campaign being sandwiched in between the 2 hostile nations of Epeiros & the KH.

As Epeiros you do get a nice empire to start. And at least 1 well trained starting army. If you use this army right you could get a real strangle hold over Mak in the begining of the campaign and then really tighten your grip on them when you ally w/ KH to get Mak into a Pincer. You also get use of elephants as well. However the cons I would say that the western front (Itally) is surely doomed from the start. You would have to be a little creative to pool your resources on the greek side and consolidate your power. However if the KH doesn't agree to side with you and your initial attack on Mak doesn't go as planned...you may be in for a bumpy start.

[Unintended BM]

I'd say go with Eperios. With Eperios, you're not held back by the March of Time, so you can take Rome whenever. Plus, you can get Drapani, who are awesome.

[Argeus the Paladin]

Epiros actually have a much easier starting than Makedonia.

See Pella? See how few garrison it has there? See those brand spanking new elephants you have? See Pyrrhos friggin' Aiakides? Afrom that point on you can steamroll Makedon and Koinon Hellenon... as long as you don't make the mistake of exposing the elephants to Sphendonetai, a mistake that AI Pyrrhos always make.

[Faramir D'Andunie]

March of time is not that important for Macedon either. Sure the reformed pikes are nice but you can live without them. They have some very nice looking unit models though, shame I dislike the look on their version of hetairoi/bodyguards (perhaps change em to Seleucid ones, hmm).

Epeiros has Pyrrhus, an army very similar to Makedonia (exception is Chaonion Agema phalanx, lack of hetairoi and thorakitai that macedonia lacks). Oh and elephants. Many people suggest that one should disband them because of the cost. I disagree that 1 unit of elephants you start with can make a huge difference early on all over the Balkans.

Pretty sure Epeiros cannot recruit thracian peltasts but if it is an issue you can always add them yourself

[Unintended BM]

Pretty sure Epeiros cannot recruit thracian peltasts but if it is an issue you can always add them yourself

They can, and as mentioned before, they can recruit Drapanai too. They also get Thorkitai. Their bodyguard unit isn't as heavy, it is faster though, and you aren't light on cavalry at all with Eperios anyway. Plus, you get elephants right away. With Makedonia, you have to go all the way to India to recruit elephants.

But really, both factions are pretty similar. They both get good pikemen, good cavalry, good infantry, etc.

Makedonia has a better AoR with its pikemen. That's really the only advantage I can think of. They're pretty much equal in terms of gameplay, unless you spam elephants or something.

Eperios definitely has an easier start. You can capture Pella and Demetrias in the first turn with those elephants, then wait it out for a bit so Makedonia weakens their full stack on the KH, then just send your army down and capture everything with little resistance. I would probably disband my elephants by then, but you could keep them and keep on capturing things easily. Capture Thrace and Illyria, build up your barracks and mines, and then you'll have lots of money and you'll be able to take Italy or Asia Minor pretty easily.

[Horse Archer]

Epeiros definitely has an easier start but has to fight Rome, which you may not be interested in if you want to conquer east, but it makes for a fun matchup (for me, at least) of heavy infantry. But if you've seen the Epeiros victory conditions (which are some of the hardest for a Hellenic faction IMHO, I haven't yet seen all of them), you can see that you're in for a lot of fighting once you build up your armies. You pretty much have to split the map in half. So yes, you do have to go east as well as west.

Also, if you're looking for mystique, don't forget that Alexander's mother Olympias was from Epeiros, and that Pyrros is, in fact, quite closely related to him.

[Faramir D'Andunie]

They were cousins if I remember correctly.

Epeiros definitely has an easier start but has to fight Rome, which you may not be interested in if you want to conquer east, but it makes for a fun matchup (for me, at least) of heavy infantry. But if you've seen the Epeiros victory conditions (which are some of the hardest for a Hellenic faction IMHO, I haven't yet seen all of them), you can see that you're in for a lot of fighting once you build up your armies. You pretty much have to split the map in half. So yes, you do have to go east as well as west.

You don't have to fight Rome actually. You can always just abandon Taras and focus on the war against Makedonia and KH later on.

Oh epeiros has an advantage not mentioned yet. An opening campaign cinematic!

[athanaric]

Epeiros has the most brutal phalanx unit in the game, which also has the most intimidating voice of all phalanx units.
Still, Makedonia has a phalanx advantage regarding versatility and AoR (much as the AS has this advantage over both, although in raw strength Makedonia and Epeiros have the best selection of phalanx units). To illustrate this point, here are all phalanx types available to both factions:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Makedonia is a faction with very strong specialist units, whereas Epeiros is less extreme in this respect (although they can recruit most Makedonian units in the appropriate regions), being more of a jack-of-all-trades - and the only faction that can train Elephants in Europe. The Antigonids can train them as well, but only in India.

[Carpathian Wolf]

Yea I'm kind of leaning more toward Epirus because Pyrrhus was somewhat related to Alexander. I could still technically recruit the Thracian troops but I don't like the lack of companions. The EB site does talk about Molossion cavalry which is "styled" after companions but I don't know if they are the same level. And then Thesselian cavalry was regarded as "equal to the companions" by Alexander but again don't know if they're that good.

With Epirus i'd probably have Pyrrhus take his army and conquer the western Balkans having him fulfill more of a Philip II role since he's already a bit older. And then I'd set up his son to go all the way to India in his life time. I'd probably spent much more time in Egypt than Alexander did since Egypt fell pretty easily to Alexander. I don't think those inbred pharohs will roll over as easily.

[Faramir D'Andunie]

Molosson Agema (the heavy cavalry they get instead of hetairoi) is not as heavily armoured but faster moving. In my eyes all you need to kill enemy bodyguards is a unit of Illyrian cavalrymen to support your own bodyguard attacking. Their secondary weapon (axes) hurt, a lot.

[Julianus]

After playing Epeiros for about two dozens turns in VH/M, I find that fighting the Macedonians and KH is incredibly easy compared to fighting the Romans.
Using a half stack army I can obliterate a Mak or KH army numerically larger than mine with merely a handful of my men killed, while fighting the Romans I keep suffering much heavier casualty, even when I face a small army consists of only say 1 principle, 1 hastati and 1 Rorarii and lead by a captain. Those murdering Barbaroi...

[Argeus the Paladin]

^^ Romaioi...

[ATN]

I recommend Epeiros. It's a blast.

[cottontail]

Plus Chanion Agema look badass

AND they get both Thorikitai and the super awesome agrianikio assault infantry.

Their molossan agema is very versatile ( although not as durable as hetaioroi)

One glaring disadvantage is that they have very limited recruitment centers, so planning is critical.

Otherwise, have a blast with them.

[-iceblade^]

Epirus is very fun, and moderately challenging, though the victory conditions and unit roster are great...

i'd take them