What to do with youth books written by persons found guilty of pedophelia

[Mig el Pig]

The Facts:

In the seventies the person i'm talking about was convicted for sexual harrasment of 14 boys in his school. He got fired as a teacher but began writing youth books. (and he worked for a youth theater and the national TV). He wrote about 20 books between 1975 and 2000 for 10 to 16 years olds. He even received awards for his youth books.

In 2005 he was again convicted for taking sexual advantage of 25 boys that where between 11 and 16 during the time period of 1978-2002. These rapes happened during literary sessions in his house. After his second conviction his publisher erased his name and his books from their site.

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But recently I noticed that his books are still available in the public librabry (and they are located in the youth section). I'm not easily shocked or feel morally obliged to protest against something but this time I thought about writting a letter to our local mayor to have those books removed.

I'm not calling for a book burning but I don't think it's right to have the youth books of a twice convicted pedophile in the youth section of a public library. (one of those books he wrote was about a 17 year old having a homo-erotic relation with a 13 year old)

So I was wondering what you all think about the following question

What to do with youth books written by persons found guilty of pedophelia?

[iudas]

I don't think someone's career should be judged or shunned based on his personal life, however immoral that might be. Michael Jackson might have been a pedophile, but that doesn't mean he wasn't a great artist (though personally I think he sucked).

[removeduser_4536284751384]

I don't think someone's career should be judged or shunned based on his personal life, however immoral that might be. Michael Jackson might have been a pedophile, but that doesn't mean he wasn't a great artist (though personally I think he sucked).

he wasn't a pedo he was just unbelievably innocent

[Faint]

I try to judge a person personal life and career apart.

I think that if his works aren't for the youth, then they should be removed from this session.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Well, I suppose the most notorious example is Alice's Adventures in Wonderland. As to whether Carroll was a paedophile is a matter of great controversy, but even if absolute proof was found tomorrow that he was, I do not think this would hinder people's ability to enjoy his work. Exactly the same argument could be made for Michael Jackson, as Iudus points out.

I think it is a matter that the market will decide. As you've mentioned this man has been dropped by his publisher, and then only reason to take action to the books themselves would be if they included some allusion to paedophilia, which I assume they do not.

I think banning the books from public libraries and schools will not achieve anything particularly productive, and possibly just inconvenience people and parents that would enjoy these books in all innocence. I think there would be more of an argument to make if you wanted to prevent public services acquiring more books as you may not want public money going towards a paedophilic author who exploited his work to commit his crimes.

[Monarchist]

I agree with Ferrets that it should be market and taste-based. Human beings in a free market can very easily cause an author to fail and never be heard from again. If the people who buy literature regularly don't want it, it won't be on shelves long. There is no reason to make obscure laws and stupid regulations when mass communities of buying and selling people/schools/book clubs will force an author off the market themselves. If they like the author, then more of the books shall be made and supplied to catch up with demand. Only the silly bureaucrats in the barrister business could ruin that.

[removeduser_487563287433]

What's the name of the author, by the by?

[Mig el Pig]

Well, I suppose the most notorious example is Alice's Adventures in Wonderland. As to whether Carroll was a paedophile is a matter of great controversy, but even if absolute proof was found tomorrow that he was, I do not think this would hinder people's ability to enjoy his work. Exactly the same argument could be made for Michael Jackson, as Iudus points out.

The problem is that both Lewis Caroll and Micheal Jackson were never convicted for pedophilia while this guy has been convicted twice for sexual abuse of 40 boys.
In addition, Gie Laenen's literature is directed at children and can still be found in the youth departments of public libraries.

I think it is a matter that the market will decide. As you've mentioned this man has been dropped by his publisher, and then only reason to take action to the books themselves would be if they included some allusion to paedophilia, which I assume they do not.

Well, the problem is that this is subjective. Someone can see something as an allusion to pedophilia while someone else looks upon it as something innocent.
One of his books is about a homoerotic relation of a 13 year old and a 17 year old. I haven't read it but I don't think it would be hard to find passages in it that are "questionable".

I think banning the books from public libraries and schools will not achieve anything particularly productive, and possibly just inconvenience people and parents that would enjoy these books in all innocence. I think there would be more of an argument to make if you wanted to prevent public services acquiring more books as you may not want public money going towards a paedophilic author who exploited his work to commit his crimes.

His books are no longer printed (and I don't think you can get them in stores, you can buy a used copy of one of his books on amazon though for 70$ )
My main issue is that it's still available in the youth section in public libraries.

What's the name of the author, by the by?

Gie Laenen, the page is in dutch

http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gie_Laenen

[Monarchist]

In addition, Gie Laenen's literature is directed at children and can still be found in the youth departments of public libraries.

...

My main issue is that it's still available in the youth section in public libraries.

The problem with this is that the actual books are probably innocent. He may be a creep in reality, but I seriously doubt his literature reflects that. If the man has stopped his disgusting habit, why should we penalise him for trying to make a way for himself? Call the police when his childrens' books encourage kids to literally have sex with old men.

[removeduser_487563287433]

The problem is that both Lewis Caroll and Micheal Jackson were never convicted for pedophilia while this guy has been convicted twice for sexual abuse of 40 boys.
In addition, Gie Laenen's literature is directed at children and can still be found in the youth departments of public libraries.

Yes, but as I said if absolute proof was discovered about Lewis Carroll's paedophilia then it would not stop people getting enjoyment out of his work - which is absolutely targeted at children.

Well, the problem is that this is subjective. Someone can see something as an allusion to pedophilia while someone else looks upon it as something innocent.
One of his books is about a homoerotic relation of a 13 year old and a 17 year old. I haven't read it but I don't think it would be hard to find passages in it that are "questionable".

Well that's just speculation. You can't ban a book on the basis of a homoerotic relationship. Homoerotic does not equate to homosexual. (And you couldn't ban a book on that basis, either).

His books are no longer printed (and I don't think you can get them in stores, you can buy a used copy of one of his books on amazon though for 70$ )
My main issue is that it's still available in the youth section in public libraries.

Would you prefer it moved to a different section?

[Mig el Pig]

Would you prefer it moved to a different section?

I would prefer it the book just wasn't available.
But leaving them in the youth section increases the risk of having a child choosing one of his books for a book report and when he does research about the author (which we had to do) finding out the author raped 40 boys. I'm not saying we should protect "the children" against everything but I would understand it if parents would be 'annoyed' with it if it happend.

The problem with this is that the actual books are probably innocent. He may be a creep in reality, but I seriously doubt his literature reflects that. If the man has stopped his disgusting habit, why should we penalise him for trying to make a way for himself? Call the police when his childrens' books encourage kids to literally have sex with old men.

Well, the books where written in between of his 2 conviction so we're not penalising him for making a way for himself. (and in interviews he views himself as a victim and not as a rapist)

Well that's just speculation. You can't ban a book on the basis of a homoerotic relationship. Homoerotic does not equate to homosexual. (And you couldn't ban a book on that basis, either).

That's what I meant with that it's sujective, some people may look at pieces and see references to phedophelia while others don't. (I just used the example of that book because I think would be easy to find "offensive" parts in it)

So what's in the books doesn't matter as much for the discussion.

Yes, but as I said if absolute proof was discovered about Lewis Carroll's paedophilia then it would not stop people getting enjoyment out of his work - which is absolutely targeted at children.

Would depend, if he acted on his paedophilic thoughts a case could be made for this. (although it would set a very awkward precedent, and I can't say it would be for this)
(also checked the site of my local library and Alice in Wonderland is also in the Children department.)

Edit: I know it's strange that I would be for the removal of one pedophiles work while I can't really support the idea of removing Alice in wonderland from the libraries.

[removeduser_487563287433]

I think you're overreacting. People can't be physically abused by a book, and it is not as if the content of the books themselves changed upon the author's conviction.

[Viking Prince]

It is a little of all of the above. A 10 year old boy can look to an author as a potential role model. The problem here is not so much a question of the author as a role model, but the adults that instill such in a child. The quality of the writing can be held up as a model of good writing. The man's criminal behavior can and still should be condemned.

We all seek out role models, but I would never tell a child to find a single person to hold up as a role model for all things in life -- praise the acts and thoughts related to what is desired. To a degree this is quite similar to some of the garbage that professional athletes do while also showing up at a childrens' hospital handing out footballs or baseball mitts. As long as the wow factor is kept to his acts as a player -- this is fine.

[Big War Bird]

I don't see a problem with reading an amusing book written by a peadophile when we've all read or learned from and about books on human slaughter written by the butchers themselves.

[Amorphos]

Just something I wonder about, so I will mull it over with you…

Maybe extreme circumstances, beliefs and lifestyles create greater writers and artist etc. the touch of darkness is a part of what gives them depth and makes them great?

If we went with that we could say; give them all the underage boys they want [*gasp*, I know], but then the effect would be lost, so you have to be against it to make the darkness dark - so to say.

thought experiments aside, a good book is a good book, the writers desires are secondary to that. ...but then again such authors shouldnt get paid or work with chindren after they have been found out.

[vecordia]

What to do with youth books written by persons found guilty of pedophelia?

Read it or not, whatever.

Creepy times when books were burned have passed long ago...
It would be pointless and simply stupid to ban books just because the autor was pedophil.
Book have its own scientifical, cultural, essential value, no matter who writes it.

I don't think also that market should verify which one is valued or not (but of course it will happen) by amount of customers, it's rather a matter of principle of impartiality, objectivity.

[Sir Winston Churchill]

Are the books bad or break any laws?

No?

Leave the books alone. We still have Mien Kampf floating around (and it's quiet a read too) even though it was written by one of the most evil men of the 20th century.

[Amorphos]

Weren’t most great men a tad evil? Was hitler so different to Caesar or khan?

Anyways yes unless the works are wrong leave them alone.

[Thanatos]

Please keep it on topic, folks.

[Amorphos]

I think most has been said that is directly on topic, sometimes it is good to explore relative fields of inquiry. Who’s to say we don’t need the badness to create the greatness [in some cases].

all threads are chat threads lols, .. seriously conversation should be allowed to flow onto interesting tangents?