The Battle of Gettysburg

[Player2]

Hey guys,

Im doing an assignment on The Battle of Gettysburg and i was wondering what kind of special forces or shock troops they used and help would be great thx

[Boyar Son]

well i guess around these times anybody considered shock troops were units meant to be thrown in battle to test positions, to do sudden attacks, or anyone with a fearsome reputation for breaking a line.

[Farnan]

Hey guys,

Im doing an assignment on The Battle of Gettysburg and i was wondering what kind of special forces or shock troops they used and help would be great thx

None.

And I'm not being sarcastic or mean. Only regular line regiments played a significant role.

[43rdFoot]

Hey guys,

Im doing an assignment on The Battle of Gettysburg and i was wondering what kind of special forces or shock troops they used and help would be great thx

There were no "special" or "shock" troops in the Civil War. Some units may have more experience, and thus be better in battle, but "shock" troops were a much later invention.

[Farnan]

There were no "special" or "shock" troops in the Civil War. Some units may have more experience, and thus be better in battle, but "shock" troops were a much later invention.

Well there were some special units such as Berdan's Sharpshooters, but they didn't see significant action at Gettysburg.

[43rdFoot]

Well there were some special units such as Berdan's Sharpshooters, but they didn't see significant action at Gettysburg.

True, but they weren't really "special forces" as the OP considers them. They were just infantry armed with superior rifles. They may have been good shots, but they weren't he SEALs of their day.

[Farnan]

True, but they weren't really "special forces" as the OP considers them. They were just infantry armed with superior rifles. They may have been good shots, but they weren't he SEALs of their day.

That would probably go to Mosby's Rangers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosby%27s_Rangers

And Andrews' Raiders
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrews_Raid

[Player2]

ok thx heaps guys

[Hanny]

Hey guys,

Im doing an assignment on The Battle of Gettysburg and i was wondering what kind of special forces or shock troops they used and help would be great thx

Ignoe the other posters, they dont know sqwat about the period.

ANV used Sharpshooter Bttns to prepare any and all attacks, http://www.amazon.com/Shock-Troops-C.../dp/0964958554

Also Lee favourd to deliver the principle attack with and by certain formations, Hills Divison , Hoods texas Brigade, was one such, also Lee prefered to attack with TJ corps and pin with Longstreet, but was not wedded to doing so.

[Farnan]

Ignoe the other posters, they dont know sqwat about the period.

ANV used Sharpshooter Bttns to prepare any and all attacks, http://www.amazon.com/Shock-Troops-C.../dp/0964958554

They did?

Since when? I know a lot about this battle and I don't remember EVER hearing of the use of sharpshooter battalions before every attack. He mostly led out with his line formations, well always led with his line formations. Sharpshooters played very little role in the battle.

At the beginning of the American Civil War, thanks to Hiram Berdan, the Army of the Potomac had a definite advantage in sharpshooting and light infantry, and this came as a rude shock to the Confederates during the 1862 Peninsular campaign. In response the Confederates organized their own sharpshooters, beginning with those of an obscure Alabama colonel, Bristor Gayle. Confederate general Robert Rodes organized the first battalion of sharpshooters in his brigade in early 1863, and later in each brigade of his division. In early 1864 General Lee adopted the concept for the entire Army of Northern Virginia, mandating that each infantry brigade field a sharpshooter battalion. These units found ready employment in the Overland campaign, and later in the trenches of Petersburg and in the fast-moving Shenandoah campaign of 1864. Although little has been written about them (the last book, written by a former sharpshooter, appeared in 1899), they played an important and sometimes pivotal role in many battles and campaigns in 1864 and 1865. By the end of the war the sharpshooters were experimenting with tactics that would become standard practice fifty years later. Although most people think of Berdan’s Sharpshooters when the subject comes up, the Confederate sharpshooter battalions had a far greater effect on the outcome of the conflict. Later in the war, in response to the Confederate dominance of the skirmish line, the Federals began to organize their own sharpshooter units at division level, though they never adopted an army-wide system.

http://www.cfspress.com/sharpshooters/

Due to your very limited knowledge of the Civil War, I'll let you go for not knowing the Battle of Gettysburg was in 1863. Oh and by the way their introduction coincides with the Confederacy on the defensive.

Also Lee favourd to deliver the principle attack with and by certain formations, Hills Divison , Hoods texas Brigade, was one such, also Lee prefered to attack with TJ corps and pin with Longstreet, but was not wedded to doing so.

TJ was dead during this battle. Shows how much you know.

And there was little difference between brigades, some had more of a reputation than others and some brigade commanders were more reliable, but to call them shock troops is disingenuous.

Besides the battle was started by Heth's Division, and Hood's Division didn't arrive till the Second Day.

[Hanny]

[QUOTE=Future Redleg Officer;6929457]They did?[quote]

Yep. Read the book or any other detailed book on how teh ANV operated at tactical or operational level, not my fault your ignorant.

You seem to not know it was SS who chopped Reynolds on day 1.

http://gburginfo.brinkster.net/reynolds.htm Sharpshooter Sgt. Ben Thorpe of the 55th North Carolina who was one of Heths SS on day one, or was it another of the SS of Heth?.

Since when? I know a lot about this battle and I don't remember EVER hearing of the use of sharpshooter battalions before every attack. He mostly led out with his line formations, well always led with his line formations. Sharpshooters played very little role in the battle.

Really?, you must think the WBTS was fought like Fredercks age of linear warfare, best you look at the Regs and wonder why a third of the regiment was in SO.

SOP for ANV in 63, http://www.ncwa.org/index.php?option...d=56&Itemid=57

same for almost every Brig in ANV.

http://www.cfspress.com/sharpshooters/

Due to your very limited knowledge of the Civil War, I'll let you go for not knowing the Battle of Gettysburg was in 1863. Oh and by the way their introduction coincides with the Confederacy on the defensive.

Except i relied to a comment about no shock or specialist existing in the civil war, and did not indicate which year B-Burg was fought in. Cant get anything correct can you and can only be dihonest instead.

TJ was dead during this battle. Shows how much you know.

Cite where i said he was alive, since you cant stop being dishonst with your straw men.

And there was little difference between brigades, some had more of a reputation than others and some brigade commanders were more reliable, but to call them shock troops is disingenuous.

Er by 63 all brigades had specilist SS Bttns in the ANV, and some formations achived special ddistinction as shock troops as Lee and others termed thyem, requesting more Texans to be forwarded to maintin them at strength because of there perormence.

I guess if you search for Lees shock troops you will find EVERY major author using the term, i just checked and found it to be so on online books.

Besides the battle was started by Heth's Division, and Hood's Division didn't arrive till the Second Day.

Cite where i posted otherwise, and Heths SS opened the ball, just as they on the 29th when they firstwent into G-Burg.

[Farnan]

[QUOTE=Hanny;6929800][QUOTE=Future Redleg Officer;6929457]They did?

Yep. Read the book or any other detailed book on how teh ANV operated at tactical or operational level, not my fault your ignorant.

You seem to not know it was SS who chopped Reynolds on day 1.

http://gburginfo.brinkster.net/reynolds.htm Sharpshooter Sgt. Ben Thorpe of the 55th North Carolina who was one of Heths SS on day one, or was it another of the SS of Heth?.

Of course I know about his loss. But to call them special in the terms of special forces is disingenuous. Snipers were used and there were sharpshooter battalions on both sides, but they were just light infantry. They were in no way approaching shock troops (units whose job is to break the enemy lines, these were skirmishers), and they weren't that special besides the fact they were light infantry anymore than I consider Wilder's Brigade to be special. Special Units more refers to forces like Mosby's Rangers for the CSA, the group led by Andrews for the USA. Further, sharpshooters were not generally used before an advance at Gettysburg. Neither Pickett's Charge, the assault on Little Big Top, the meeting engagement between Buford and Heath, assault on Devil's Den nor the Wheatfield used them in the manner you suggest.

From what it seems sharpshooters were more used to target enemy artillery or in defensive roles.

http://www.gdg.org/Research/Authored%20Items/ssden.html
http://www.civilwarhome.com/robertsongettysburgor.htm

Really?, you must think the WBTS was fought like Fredercks age of linear warfare, best you look at the Regs and wonder why a third of the regiment was in SO.

SOP for ANV in 63, http://www.ncwa.org/index.php?option...d=56&Itemid=57

same for almost every Brig in ANV.

Proof that's for every brigade?

And there is nothing special for having troops designated for picket and sharpshooting duty. However they did not proceed every assault.

Except i relied to a comment about no shock or specialist existing in the civil war, and did not indicate which year B-Burg was fought in. Cant get anything correct can you and can only be dihonest instead.

I didn't say they didn't exist ever. In a further post I commented on Mosby's Rangers. I just said they were not at G-Burg. I was wrong on one thing though and Berdan's were at G-Burg. However, light infantry is hardly special.

And he means special as in like the Rangers or Green Berets. Nearly every unit was a specialist at something.

Cite where i said he was alive, since you cant stop being dishonst with your straw men.

Its a thread about Gettysburg

Er by 63 all brigades had specilist SS Bttns in the ANV, and some formations achived special ddistinction as shock troops as Lee and others termed thyem, requesting more Texans to be forwarded to maintin them at strength because of there perormence.

Source?

I guess if you search for Lees shock troops you will find EVERY major author using the term, i just checked and found it to be so on online books.

http://www.12thvirginia.org/history.htm
Apparently Mahone's troops were also Lee's Shock troops. So was Hill's Division and of course the Sharpshooters. And nearly every other unit in the Confederate Army.


Oh and the Battle of Gettysburg started July 1st, not the 29th of anything.

[Hanny]

[QUOTE=Future Redleg Officer;6930374][QUOTE=Hanny;6929800]

Of course I know about his loss. But to call them special in the terms of special forces is disingenuous. Snipers were used and there were sharpshooter battalions on both sides, but they were just light infantry. They were in no way approaching shock troops (units whose job is to break the enemy lines, these were skirmishers), and they weren't that special besides the fact they were light infantry anymore than I consider Wilder's Brigade to be special. Special Units more refers to forces like Mosby's Rangers for the CSA, the group led by Andrews for the USA. Further, sharpshooters were not generally used before an advance at Gettysburg. Neither Pickett's Charge, the assault on Little Big Top, the meeting engagement between Buford and Heath, assault on Devil's Den nor the Wheatfield used them in the manner you suggest.

Thats how specialist in the field term them, Hess states that "Lee's sharpshooter battalions were unique and impressive examples of Civil War specialist units. The Rifle Musket in Civil War Combat: Reality and Myth, Earl J. Hess, University Press of Kansas, 288 pages, $29.95.


Same in the first specialsit book i linked you to.

You dont even know that breaking the MLR was process, not an event, the process began with dropping the enemy Command and control, by use of SS, when this was effected the rask of breaking in could begin.

You dont like that Lee and other CS commander termed them specialist, fine, not my probllem what is your problem is you dont know teh mechanics of battle.

You dont know that Vincent and Hazard were dropped prior to the main commitment by CS SS, so stop prtending to know about G-Burg.

From what it seems sharpshooters were more used to target enemy artillery or in defensive roles.

http://www.gdg.org/Research/Authored%20Items/ssden.html
http://www.civilwarhome.com/robertsongettysburgor.htm

Nice link, it shows a specilsit SS killed the CO and a specilaist was brought up to combat him before he completed chopping the officers.

Proof that's for every brigade?

Common knoweldge that Lee ordered it in early 63 for ANV. Read the book i listed and stop asking stupid questions only the ignoprant woulod ask. Book and link already provided for ther ignorant.

And there is nothing special for having troops designated for picket and sharpshooting duty. However they did not proceed every assault.

Nothing special?, differnet equipemt including telescopic sights, seperate and differnet formation outside the unit, and differnet pay grade, another word you cant use correctly.

I didn't say they didn't exist ever. In a further post I commented on Mosby's Rangers. I just said they were not at G-Burg. I was wrong on one thing though and Berdan's were at G-Burg. However, light infantry is hardly special.

Aske dand asnwered your first sentence. So now Bwerdans are not specialist either?, how odd.

And he means special as in like the Rangers or Green Berets. Nearly every unit was a specialist at something.

Nothing in hois post could lead to that asumption you yourself have made. Otoh if you use teh terms as every major author and the men of the time used them, there you just wrong, wrong and too stupid to admit it.

Its a thread about Gettysburg

i relied about a general use of lee when ANV was a 2 corps system, as too which was his prefered shock corps and which he liked to poin the enemy with, and you have waffled on about things not abiut G-Burg yourself so get some honesty soony.

Source?

Read the book i provided or any detaile small unit tactical work. Book and link already provided.

http://www.12thvirginia.org/history.htm
Apparently Mahone's troops were also Lee's Shock troops. So was Hill's Division and of course the Sharpshooters. And nearly every other unit in the Confederate Army.

Odd how authors use the term which say is not correct neh?.

Oh and the Battle of Gettysburg started July 1st, not the 29th of anything.

Heth as i posted went thyrough G -burg on the 29/30, his SS from Pettigrew k Brig illed the co of the federal cav officer there, and the unit retired before him.

Oh and Sgnt Grace chopped Gen Sedgwick at 1000 yards witha whitworth telescipic rifle, you know nothing special about him the act at all acording to you.

[Boyar Son]

boy you sure showed them. repeating what's been said already about especially fierce troops to perform certain attacks.

[Hanny]

boy you sure showed them. repeating what's been said already about especially fierce troops to perform certain attacks.

Actually i pointed out that Redlegs does not know how the ANV operated atv the tacticle or operational level.

[Farnan]

Actually i pointed out that Redlegs does not know how the ANV operated atv the tacticle or operational level.

Unless you can show me an instance of them operating like that at the Battle of Gettysburg, I'll give you your due...

[Hanny]

Unless you can show me an instance of them operating like that at the Battle of Gettysburg, I'll give you your due...

Most lily it was one of Heths SS who killed Reynolds, but that SS led every attack is not in dispute by anyone with the barest knowedge of the subject.

[67th Tigers]

Unless you can show me an instance of them operating like that at the Battle of Gettysburg, I'll give you your due...

They weren't picked men really though. Each Regiment in the brigade simply provided one of it's companies, nominally the light company, but such a thing really didn't exist. It was a common practice elsewhere, Wellington did the same on the Peninsula.

[Farnan]

They weren't picked men really though. Each Regiment in the brigade simply provided one of it's companies, nominally the light company, but such a thing really didn't exist. It was a common practice elsewhere, Wellington did the same on the Peninsula.

Yea, there weren't many units of them as specialists and that is what it seems like reading about sharpshooters.

However, it doesn't look like they were used to begin an assault.

[Ramashan]

@Hanny:

I love how you come into these Civil War threads waving your arms slapping away at the wasps nest. "they don't know squat about the period." Well, perhaps talking to some people who do would help you turn down your superior knowledge a notch:

Here's what your talking about: http://www.brettschulte.net/CWBlog/2...deracy-part-5/

Yes, there was Confederate Sharpshooters at Gettysburg and they did indeed make a difference, one of the biggest was the death of General Reynolds by Sharpshooters. Rodes Sharpshooters (Under Blackford during the entire battle) also played a role in protecting Pickets retreat and the retreat of the Confederate army from Gettysburg. But in each case the Federals weren't moving from their lines anyway, but still, the Sharpshooters were key in protecting the rear during a retreat.

Thing is, the Federal's had Sharpshooter units organized before the Confederacy could organize their own. One thing to remember is that Sharpshooters were often used as Skirmishers at the beginning of any battle of the time. This is why of course your comment:

but that SS led every attack is not in dispute by anyone with the barest knowedge of the subject.

can't be disputed, this was true for both sides. There were at least 2 Union Brigades of Sharpshooters present at Gettysburg as well.

Other than these Sharpshooters, who yes, the Confederates used to great advantage on Day 1 of Gettysburg were the only 'elite' units present as we would know them. Otherwise, all the other units were either Cavalry, Artillary, or Infantry. One could make an argument, I suppose, that the Flying Artillary units introduced during the Mexican American war were Shock Troops, but they didn't really attack the lines.