Free Will

[swabian]

Is it possible? (I will post my own opinions later on)

Discuss.

[Red_legged_devils]

Is it possible? (I will post my own opinions later on)

Discuss.

Are you in jail?

[swabian]

No and i don't care if you are. Just let it all out.

[roy34543]

No its not. Because of brain chemistry .
(thats what you want to hear right?)

[swabian]

Perhaps. Why woud brain chemistry exclude FW & what would be the consequences thereof?

[Elfdude]

Yes. There is always free will, it's only after we make decisions that probability becomes equal to reality.

[swabian]

There is always free will, it's only after we make decisions that probability becomes equal to reality.

Why does this allow free will?

[Elfdude]

Why does this allow free will?

You seriously want me to explain spacetime to you?

Are you crazy?

For a summary: As objects in the 1st, 2nd and 3rd dimensions interact with the 4th dimension (a wave) the wave collapses. Our reality continues forward (as we percieve it) but infinite realities (anything that's possible) branch off at each moment.

So this reality is because of the choices that have been made in it.

[swabian]

So, your decision to post this thread in the Ethos, without god restricting you that, isn't free will?

Huh-huh. Who's to say that there wasn't some subconscious preference that made me do so?

You seriously want me to explain spacetime to you?

I actually thought i already know what that is, but go ahead.

Are you crazy?

Seriously: Really only a bit.

[Gordon Freynman]

http://www.physorg.com/news186830615.html


Free will is an illusion, at least according to the guy in that article.

[swabian]

OK, i admit it, i don't believe in FW for various reasons (surprise).

Yet, i don't see how spacetime does anything but support that view (@ spacetime-guy above)

Please also read this article:

http://www.mpg.de/english/illustrati...lease20080414/

Unconscious decisions in the brain

A team of scientists has unravelled how the brain unconsciously prepares our decisions

What i actually wanted to point out is that this has some ethical/religious implications which reasonably cannot be further ignored, but who gives a .

Please continue.

[Simon Cashmere]

You seriously want me to explain spacetime to you?

Are you crazy?

For a summary: As objects in the 1st, 2nd and 3rd dimensions interact with the 4th dimension (a wave) the wave collapses. Our reality continues forward (as we percieve it) but infinite realities (anything that's possible) branch off at each moment.

So this reality is because of the choices that have been made in it.

Why do infinite realities branch off? What is the cause of realities branching off? I've seen this quantum theorist stuff, don't buy it. How can you test whether there are infinite realities? You can't go there. And as for freewill, if your action is just one of a subset of an infinite number of choices, is anyone really choosing anything? They all just are pieces of the whole aren't they?

The Quantum Suicide machine is just as moronic, because killing you in this reality, whether you may exist in other realities, or not, makes you just as dead right here.

Many worlds, and infinite dimensions theory is just a poor way of compensating for our inadequacies in theorising particle decay. Instead of develop a better theory, we say there are infinite universes and this is just one of them.

Infinite worlds / dimensions theory seems to violate Occam's Razor in the greatest way possible. Infinite realities do not branch off, there is only one reality until we prove otherwise.

As for freewill -the biggest impediment to it in actuality is biological instinct and the mating drive. People tend to rationalise what they do in all manner of intellectual ways, but the vast majority of things men do is to pick up and keep chicks. Is that really freewill, or is it conforming to a base level of billions of lines of genetic code, assembled by your ancestral morons - and deceiving yourself as to it being freely chosen?

As to Jesus or God having anything to do with it - that's just material for a sequel to the Life of Brian.

[Banana Jelly]

So, your decision to post this thread in the Ethos, without god restricting you that, isn't free will?

[Banana Jelly]

Huh-huh. Who's to say that there wasn't some subconscious preference that made me do so?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Definitions of free will on the Web:

the power of making free choices unconstrained by external agencies
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
Free will in theology is an important part of the debate on free will in general. This article discusses the doctrine of free will as it has been ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_will_(theology)
Free Will is the second studio album by American soul poet and musician Gil Scott-Heron, released in August 1972 on Flying Dutchman Records. Recordings sessions for the album took place on March 2 and 3, 1972 at RCA Studios in New York City, and production was handled by producer Bob Thiele. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Will_(album)
Free-Will is an independent Japanese record label founded in 1986 with branches predominantly in Japan and the United States, as well as in Europe previously. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-Will
Free will raises the question whether, and in what sense, rational agents exercise control over their actions, decisions, choices. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_will
The ability to choose one's actions, or determine what reasons are acceptable motivation for actions; The doctrine that human beings (and possibly other beings, such angels or higher animals) are able to choose their actions without being caused to do so by external forces
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/free_will
the partial freedom of the agent, in acts of conscious choice, from the determining compulsion of heredity, environment and circumstance.
www.willdurant.com/glossary.htm
Alfred Mele Florida State University, USA
http://www.elsevierdirect.com/brochu...s/content.html
The power of self-determination regarded as a special faculty
www.innvista.com/culture/religion/diction.htm
Freedom of self-determination and action independent of external causes.
http://www.carm.org/secular-movement...nd-definitions
the capacity of rational agents to choose a course of action from among various alternatives.
www.philosophybasics.com/general_glossary.html
is the philosophical doctrine that holds that our choices are ultimately up to ourselves. The phrase "up to ourselves" is vague, and ...
http://www.statemaster.com/encyclope...m-of-free-will
The freedom to create; the option to choose the right-or the left-handed path, Life or Death, the positive or the negative spirals of consciousness. ...
washingtondcteachingcenter.org/teachings2.html
RELATION OF THE QUESTION TO DIFFERENT BRANCHES OF PHILOSOPHY •HISTORY • Free Will in Ancient Philosophy •Free Will and the Christian Religion
http://www.scribd.com/doc/11581724/C...pedia-Volume-6
is segment that appears most weeks. When it does, it is usually on a Sunday or Monday and features Will Wilkinson interviewing well known or ...
en.wikipedia.7val.com/wiki/Bloggingheads.tv

You werent restricted of your right by anyone to post a thread on the Ethos, which lead's to you having free will (Deciding what to do, and to decide from right or wrong). You decided that you wanted to post it, makes you have free will.

[swabian]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

You werent restricted of your right by anyone to post a thread on the Ethos, which lead's to you having free will (Deciding what to do, and to decide from right or wrong). You decided that you wanted to post it, makes you have free will.

That doesn't adress my question: What if i did that due to a subconscious reason that emerged, say, out of my early childhood or something?

And even my conscious thoughts could be a are part of a determinated (physical) process, the root of which might be unknown.

[Banana Jelly]

That doesn't adress my question: What if i did that due to a subconscious reason that emerged, say, out of my early childhood or something?

And even my conscious thoughts could be a are part of a determinated (physical) process, the root of which might be unknown.

That doesn't matter. The fact you chose to post a thread, without you being restricted of your right's by anyone, say's you have free will. For what reason you posted this, isn't the issue, rather you did the deed, which goes to the fact, you have free will.

[swabian]

That doesn't matter. The fact you chose to post a thread, without you being restricted of your right's by anyone, say's you have free will. For what reason you posted this, isn't the issue, rather you did the deed, which goes to the fact, you have free will.

So FW is nothing but an illusion emotion, i wholeheartedly agree. Gawd this is boring.

i think it really depends on defenitions, people will usually have the power to make decissions that they would want, yet im pretty sure you could never have a thought truely free of your past, the present situation, and your preception of the future.

Also, since i do not believe in any god, i believe people have free will in the sense that no higher power controls or has determained anyones action. Although like cool story Brah posted there are many defenitions, which makes it kind of hard to debate for me when there is no set defenition.

That's interesting, thanks. What would be a definition that wouldn't immediately render FW an emotion?

[Banana Jelly]

So FW is nothing but an illusion emotion, i wholeheartedly agree. Gawd this is boring.

Free will, ofcourse comes from our brain, where we decide from what's right or wrong. There may be particular part's of the brain which deal's with FW. But how does deciding what you do = emotions? According to this source,

emotions = Emotion is associated with mood, temperament, personality, and disposition.

[empr guy]

i think it really depends on defenitions, people will usually have the power to make decissions that they would want, yet im pretty sure you could never have a thought truely free of your past, the present situation, and your preception of the future.

Also, since i do not believe in any god, i believe people have free will in the sense that no higher power controls or has determained anyones action. Although like cool story Brah posted there are many defenitions, which makes it kind of hard to debate for me when there is no set defenition.

[Red_legged_devils]

Is it possible? (I will post my own opinions later on)

Discuss.

Yet Another fail thread.