Are people on unemployment leeches to society?

[Count of Montesano]

Several U.S. senators and congressmen have come out recently against unemployment, saying that people on unemployment are gaming the system and that the US can no longer afford the program.

Here's a quote from House Majority Leader Tom Delay:

You know," Delay said, "there is an argument to be made that these extensions, the unemployment benefits keeps people from going and finding jobs. In fact there are some studies that have been done that show people stay on unemployment compensation and they don't look for a job until two or three weeks before they know the benefits are going to run out.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0..._n_489050.html

This got me thinking - are people on unemployment really lazy leeches? My stance is that even a strongly capitalist system needs a certain level of safety nets. America's unemployment benefits aren't even that generous compared to many European countries. I've gotten into an argument with a friend about this. His stance is after you lose a job, you should take any job that comes along, including flipping burgers and picking fruit in the fields. My counterargument is that a certain cushion to give people a chance to get back on their feet is not a bad thing.

So, who's right? Or maybe a better question: can America afford to continue to offer unemployment benefits?

[justicar5]

Several U.S. senators and congressmen have come out recently against unemployment, saying that people on unemployment are gaming the system and that the US can no longer afford the program.

Here's a quote from House Majority Leader Tom Delay:



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0..._n_489050.html

This got me thinking - are people on unemployment really lazy leeches? My stance is that even a strongly capitalist system needs a certain level of safety nets. America's unemployment benefits aren't even that generous compared to many European countries. I've gotten into an argument with a friend about this. His stance is after you lose a job, you should take any job that comes along, including flipping burgers and picking fruit in the fields. My counterargument is that a certain cushion to give people a chance to get back on their feet is not a bad thing.

So, who's right? Or maybe a better question: can America afford to continue to offer unemployment benefits?

you should take any job, but that doesn't mean that their should be no safety net. In the UK you (in theory I bet there are some who scam this) have to provide proof that you are looking for work, copies of applications sent, etc. The advisor at the job centre will then also look on the job centres own records for available jobs in your area for you (which is damn useful as some jobs that they have on that system don't appear in local papers/job websites/employment agencies [don't ask me why but it gets that way]) and you have to apply to any you could reasonably do (i.e no point in applying to be a surveyor without the qualifications for instance). Yes the system could do with tightening up, and yes their are loopholes, but that core idea is sound and should be what Job Seekers Allowance is for.

[Darkhorse]

you should take any job, but that doesn't mean that their should be no safety net. In the UK you (in theory I bet there are some who scam this) have to provide proof that you are looking for work, copies of applications sent, etc. The advisor at the job centre will then also look on the job centres own records for available jobs in your area for you (which is damn useful as some jobs that they have on that system don't appear in local papers/job websites/employment agencies [don't ask me why but it gets that way]) and you have to apply to any you could reasonably do (i.e no point in applying to be a surveyor without the qualifications for instance). Yes the system could do with tightening up, and yes their are loopholes, but that core idea is sound and should be what Job Seekers Allowance is for.

My experiences of the UK dole office are incredibly different. Only recently have I been actually *helped* by my advisor's (i.e job search, training etc) and that's only because of the new government programme. Also the offices don't talk to each other at all, I keep getting refereed to the Canterbury office to deal with such and such a thing, and then my local office know nothing about what's going on, so I have to go through everything twice, maybe even 3 times with both offices, because they refuse to pick up the phone and call each other! And then, once they cut my benefit for a month for actually looking for work. Additionally, there was a couple of weeks where I had nothing to put on my proof of job search because there was nothing to apply for! Boy don't they get mad about that! And then another time they cut my benefit because I did 1 weekends work. I made £80, and they stopped £400 of benefit, leaving me to struggle on £80 for 8 weeks, which is impossible even in my situation... They tie you up in forms and red tape and it feels like your damned if you do, damned if you don't. Infact, its probably purposely done to make you get off benefit

[justicar5]

My experiences of the UK dole office are incredibly different. Only recently have I been actually *helped* by my advisor's (i.e job search, training etc) and that's only because of the new government programme. Also the offices don't talk to each other at all, I keep getting refereed to the Canterbury office to deal with such and such a thing, and then my local office know nothing about what's going on, so I have to go through everything twice, maybe even 3 times with both offices, because they refuse to pick up the phone and call each other! And then, once they cut my benefit for a month for actually looking for work. Additionally, there was a couple of weeks where I had nothing to put on my proof of job search because there was nothing to apply for! Boy don't they get mad about that! And then another time they cut my benefit because I did 1 weekends work. I made £80, and they stopped £400 of benefit, leaving me to struggle on £80 for 8 weeks, which is impossible even in my situation... They tie you up in forms and red tape and it feels like your damned if you do, damned if you don't. Infact, its probably purposely done to make you get off benefit

must have a good one then. Well both approaches to get you off benefit work

[jankren]

Unemployment benefits should only go to the elderly and the disabled. For the rest, it should not last more than a couple of months.

[PacSubCom]

We must teach them discipline. We must discipline every unemployed person, we must be strict fathers. No money = no liberty. It's for their best. And for the best who'll employ them in "any job" (=for any abject pittance). No work = no bread. It's a tough world, evil even, out to get you.

[RVFVS]

I think America's system is far too liberal. I am all for welfare payments but I think the gov should keep an eye on those recieving the money to make sure they are looking for a job.

[Mythos]

Modern nations should have a healthy, highly educated workforce which can be protected by bursting of bubbles and the unemployment that comes after that. What good is a nuclear scientist flipping burgers?

[Phier]

Modern nations should have a healthy, highly educated workforce which can be protected by bursting of bubbles and the unemployment that comes after that. What good is a nuclear scientist flipping burgers?

A lot if I'm hungry and do not require any fission at that moment.

[Ramashan]

You do realize that you need to have worked in order to get Unemployment benefits right? Its designed to help get people through a period they may not have planned for, such as long term unemployment after being let go from a job. (I say 'long term' because people do need to learn how to save, but sometimes you are unemployed for longer than expected like three or four months) and what if you need to retrain yourself since your previous job no longer exists or your skills aren't good enough for a change in the economy? Or what if you need to move to where the jobs are? Unemployment might just be enough to get you through this period, pay your bills, your mortgage, moving costs etc. And it only lasts from 6 months to a year depending on the state.

Don't confuse it with Welfare.

[Phier]

Sorry but most people on it are sitting on their asses until they are 'forced' to work. Its how it always works, anyone thinking differently hasn't been on the HR side of anything.

[Ciabhán]

Short term during tough times? No. Dragging it out until you are forced to find work? Absolutely.

I think there should be a 100% absolute limit to the amount of money one can receive on unemployment or welfare. Once that runs out you work(too bad if it's not up to the level you want or once were)or starve.

[Boyar Son]

Several U.S. senators and congressmen have come out recently against unemployment, saying that people on unemployment are gaming the system and that the US can no longer afford the program.

Here's a quote from House Majority Leader Tom Delay:



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0..._n_489050.html

This got me thinking - are people on unemployment really lazy leeches? My stance is that even a strongly capitalist system needs a certain level of safety nets. America's unemployment benefits aren't even that generous compared to many European countries. I've gotten into an argument with a friend about this. His stance is after you lose a job, you should take any job that comes along, including flipping burgers and picking fruit in the fields. My counterargument is that a certain cushion to give people a chance to get back on their feet is not a bad thing.

So, who's right? Or maybe a better question: can America afford to continue to offer unemployment benefits?

create ditch digging jobs. I'd dig a hole to get me thru college.

[Big War Bird]

First lets get clear on how unemployment insurance works in the US. That's right it is insurance that your labor pays for when you are employeed. Your employeer is required by law to pay a certain percentage of your income into a government run insurance pool. Of course as an employee this forced purchasing of insurance drives down your wages and denies you fuller control of your productivity, but it is all carefully hidden from you. You will never see how much income is being diverted from your income into this pool on any pay stub or income tax form.

So if you become unemployeed through no direct fault of your own (like a layoff) you are elligible to cash in on this insurance, which is worka certain maximum benefit based on your previous income and duration of that work for a set number of weeks.

Regardless of how one feels about this scheme it is a plan that the people collecting unemployment did pay into and are entitled to just as you might be to collect from a car insurance company in the case of an accident.

But what Congress has done of late it extend unemployment benefits almost indefinitely, up to 99 weeks, I think, far longer than the unemployment insurance plan was designed to provide.

[Ramashan]

Listen to Big War Bird, he is exactly right.

So, Caibhan, you must be confusing unemployment benefits with welfare because as shown above and through simple research, you can see that its not indefinite and only meant to get you through a 'short' period of time. As mention, how long is up to congress which negotiable.

Now, as to sitting an your butt as long as you can, honestly, who cares, its money you earned through your employment. If the person is that lazy that they're just going to sit around I'm sure they would have been fired long ago and unable to collect anything at all.

In the end, you can not judge the majority by the minority who abuse the system. This is the one 'safety net' that helps out those who have been playing the game and benefiting the economy and society that is allowed the average person without restraint of age or illness. If you work hard and the company folds, your going to be OK until you find your next job.

But, if companies do pay into it, like insurance, and the money isn't coming out of the tax payers kitty, how is it a burden on society like Welfare and Medicare?