Germany blames the Vatican for hampering investigations into decades of abuse

[removeduser_487563287433]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle7054611.ece

The German Justice Secretary has said that the Vatican's secrecy as well as a 2001 directive that all serious cases be investigated by the Church first has hampered the authorities' investigations into a series of claims concerning sexual abuse of children at a variety of Catholic schools.

Yet another national government damns the Catholic Church for protecting rapists. Their defenders must feel like they are standing on increasingly thin ice.

In a related story the Pope's brother has apologised for the children who were raped at the school where he served as choir-master and begs their forgiveness. He claims he knew nothing of it at the time, but... well... he can't be trusted what with all this disgraceful secrecy directives and the fact that the Church is openly protecting these criminals.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/com...cle7055437.ece

[Monarchist]

Perhaps we'd all appreciate your brave, bold investigative exposée of religious hypocrisy if you put the spotlight on some organisation other than the Catholic Church for once. There are plenty of violent, intolerant, hateful, murderous Imams preaching in North Camden right now, for example. Why not focus on their wish to literally blow fellow human beings to little bloody chunks, instead of this constant, epic trolling of the Roman Church?

[PacSubCom]

Perhaps we'd all appreciate your brave, bold investigative exposée of religious hypocrisy if you put the spotlight on some organisation other than the Catholic Church for once. There are plenty of violent, intolerant, hateful, murderous Imams preaching in North Camden right now, for example. Why not focus on their wish to literally blow fellow human beings to little bloody chunks, instead of this constant, epic trolling of the Roman Church?

You just said you're A-OK with child abuse as long as The Church does it. Not surprising, but surely there must be some mistake on your part?

[Taiji]

You just said you're A-OK with child abuse as long as The Church does it. Not surprising, but surely there must be some mistake on your part?

I think the fact that you found it unsurprising can tell us that your expectations made you see it that way. He didn't say anything of the sort, what he says looks more like an attempt at ad hominem.

[basics]

" Perhaps we'd all appreciate your brave, bold investigative exposée of religious hypocrisy if you put the spotlight on some organisation other than the Catholic Church for once. There are plenty of violent, intolerant, hateful, murderous Imams preaching in North Camden right now, for example. Why not focus on their wish to literally blow fellow human beings to little bloody chunks, instead of this constant, epic trolling of the Roman Church?"

Monarchist,

Blowing up people for a religious ideal is somehow rather different from a growing list of Roman Catholic priests using children for their sexual gratification. This is supposed to be the church of all churches where the priest has direct linkage to God, but somehow I have never read anywhere where this abnormal habit is part of the Gospel.

When Jesus said, " Suffer the little children to come unto me..." I don't think that was His intention nor should it be that of any priesthood that claims affinity with God, regardless of what denomination that might be. It only shows the fear that many have when they conceal what has happened to them and when one adds what experiences the kids that were sent to Australia and into Catholic run homes had one does wonder just what is going on in that system.

[athanaric]

Perhaps we'd all appreciate your brave, bold investigative exposée of religious hypocrisy if you put the spotlight on some organisation other than the Catholic Church for once. There are plenty of violent, intolerant, hateful, murderous Imams preaching in North Camden right now, for example. Why not focus on their wish to literally blow fellow human beings to little bloody chunks, instead of this constant, epic trolling of the Roman Church?

How about doing both? The meddling of Islamists and of perverted clerics both call for punishment. It's not necessary to point out one while shoving aside the other, unless you want to argue on the moral level of a leftist hypocrite.
In recent times, Catholic officials have caused quite some trouble in our country, the child abuse scandals being the disgusting top of the iceberg.

By the way, there's also another child abuse scandal being dug up, this time involving a "secular" private school led by ideologues close to some leftist parties, namely friends of the child molester Daniel Cohn-Bendit who is currently a member of the European parliament. Surprise surprise. Ideologues who tried to de-criminalize pederasrty during the seventies and eighties...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

http://www.faz.net/s/Rub594835B672714A1DB1A121534F010EE1/Doc~E45D655EA5E3342289871A470CDC32791~ATpl~Ecommon~Scontent.html

http://www.faz.net/s/RubFC06D389EE76479E9E76425072B196C3/Doc~E30BDA9C1CCB74CE29902A223AEC6CA0D~ATpl~Ecommon~Scontent.html

[Red_legged_devils]

Meh, All this nonsence will go the way of the dodo bird.

These cases are not even intersting to me. Most people in america can recall the sex scandels ten years ago if you brang up the subject but people who are not even catholic don't go around talking about them over tea, people don't really care, becouse most of these cases are more then 15 years old if not longer....and in alot of countreys the statue of limitation for presueing charges is only about 7 years after the fact, Rape etc. The truth is that most of these people comeing out are looking for money and publicity rarely is anything DONE, becouse people don't know the laws lol you only have so much time to claim before its just an embarrassing moment in the over 2000 year time line of the church this will all pass..

I'm more worried about pedifiles who kidnap and kill childern then dirty old men who touched or foundled groped or even raped school age childern 20 odd years ago....Should they be singled out and exposed and arrested? Yes...And go to jail, But you can't do anything Ealse. What could you Do? Sue the vactican? And what good would that do? You think you can brang down the catholic church with law suits lol good luck.

[Fiyenyaa]

Meh, All this nonsence will go the way of the dodo bird.

These cases are not even intersting to me. Most people in america can recall the sex scandels ten years ago if you brang up the subject but people who are not even catholic don't go around talking about them over tea, people don't really care, becouse most of these cases are more then 15 years old if not longer....and in alot of countreys the statue of limitation for presueing charges is only about 7 years after the fact, Rape etc. The truth is that most of these people comeing out are looking for money and publicity rarely is anything DONE, becouse people don't know the laws lol you only have so much time to claim before its just an embarrassing moment in the over 2000 year time line of the church this will all pass..

I'm more worried about pedifiles who kidnap and kill childern then dirty old men who touched or foundled groped or even raped school age childern 20 odd years ago....Should they be singled out and exposed and arrested? Yes...And go to jail, But you can't do anything Ealse. What could you Do? Sue the vactican? And what good would that do? You think you can brang down the catholic church with law suits lol good luck.

Who said anything about bringing down the Church? The simple fact is that the victims and most of the rest of the world would rather see justice done than have those responsible walk away unpunished.

[Red_legged_devils]

Who said anything about bringing down the Church? The simple fact is that the victims and most of the rest of the world would rather see justice done than have those responsible walk away unpunished.

Well if your worried about justice then you should tell those who are concerned that there are limits on alot of things in law out side of murder, If you wish to do anything MORE then make a big stink in the news then do your selfs a favor and contact police with in the first few months not years down the road, or nouthing will get done, and no one should feel to sorry for them....Honestly if i found out someone was praying on my kids and i suspected there mood or behavour changeng id be getting to the bottem of it fast....but alot of these cases are not that simple, Alot of these cases are People lumping stories ontop of story ontop of story and hardly any of them have been sorted and investigated, this is why i can't take most of it seriasly.

Just becouse someone said oh that church person touched me back ten years ago, Id say Prove it?? Most of these cases are nouthing more then hearsay untill proven otherwise....thats how the law works. As Painful as it is.

[removeduser_487563287433]

These cases are not even intersting to me.

And that only reflects on you. The Catholic Church deserves you.

Though, Ferrets you do seem to have a chip on your shoulder regarding the Catholic Church. I know that you seem to heap crap on the whole Church as a result, but you must understand that the Church is surprisingly decentralised, and although I am just as disgusted as you at the minority of Priests abusing children and it's subsequent cover ups, by and large, the majority of diocese, Priests and Catholics in general aren't involved and it's unfair to just generalise like that.

The reason I am posting about it so much is because I am underwhelmed by the response of most of the Catholics on this forum, most of whom seem to unwilling to acknowledge the scale of the abuse or the fact that the Church is still protecting rapists and hampering official investigations. I have also yet to see a single Catholic on this forum condemning the Church and saying these criminals should be surrended.

I do not like organised religion, and I have never said otherwise. Nor have I hidden the fact that I believe that the Catholic Church contains the very worst that organised has to offer.

In my opinion the Church has shown that it is morally bankrupt and completely untrustworthy. If it does not immediately hand over all its information on the abuse cases, come completely clean in its own complicity and surrender the criminals it is protecting to the relevant national authorities, it's ability to police itself should be smashed by any method available.

However the fact remains that even though cases like these aren't unique, what is unique is the way that it's been handled in the past, and even though I do believe in innocence until being proven guilty, it's a little hard not to look at these cases and feel a bit ashamed of being Catholic, if for no other reason, simply sharing the same faith. I hope though, that no one judges the Catholic population as a whole on the actions of a few reprehensible individuals.

See? You're as bad by insisting this is all in the past. It's not. The Church is still performing its cover up. The doctrine of secrecy that has been damned by the German Justice Secrectary is from 2001.

The church has a ZERO tolerance policy

God...

Watch this:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...ht_09_03_2010/

Not that you will. I suspect you are willingly remaining ignorant on this problem.

If you can't because of regional firewalls it involves the case of a priest who raped children over a course of years, was protected by the Church, and when defrocked was paid 30,000 euros for his trouble. Is that your interpretation of zero tolerance?

[Red_legged_devils]

And that only reflects on you. The Catholic Church deserves you.



The reason I am posting about it so much is because I am underwhelmed by the response of most of the Catholics on this forum, most of whom seem to unwilling to acknowledge the scale of the abuse or the fact that the Church is still protecting rapists and hampering official investigations. I have also yet to see a single Catholic on this forum condemning the Church and saying these criminals should be surrended.

I do not like organised religion, and I have never said otherwise. Nor have I hidden the fact that I believe that the Catholic Church contains the very worst that organised has to offer.

In my opinion the Church has shown that it is morally bankrupt and completely untrustworthy. If it does not immediately hand over all its information on the abuse cases, come completely clean in its own complicity and surrender the criminals it is protecting to the relevant national authorities, it's ability to police itself should be smashed by any method available.



See? You're as bad by insisting this is all in the past. It's not. The Church is still performing its cover up. The doctrine of secrecy that has been damned by the German Justice Secrectary is from 2001.



God...

Watch this:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...ht_09_03_2010/

Not that you will. I suspect you are willingly remaining ignorant on this problem.

If you can't because of regional firewalls it involves the case of a priest who raped children over a course of years, was protected by the Church, and when defrocked was paid 30,000 euros for his trouble. Is that your interpretation of zero tolerance?

Thats good, Buty ou should Read this, This is MUCH Better Then those....And should be known. http://www.tomflocco.com/fs/PhotographerTied.htm

[Darth Red]

The reason I am posting about it so much is because I am underwhelmed by the response of most of the Catholics on this forum, most of whom seem to unwilling to acknowledge the scale of the abuse or the fact that the Church is still protecting rapists and hampering official investigations. I have also yet to see a single Catholic on this forum condemning the Church and saying these criminals should be surrended.

You are right to be sceptical, the Church does apper to be protecting criminals from prosecution. Totaly appaulling. To answer your question to me, I do find it difficult to believe what the Church says on these matters. I belive those that have knowlage of abuse that took place and did nothing about it or even enabled them to continue are the very one's in high places on the hierarchy. That's what I belive to be behind all the secrecy.

Again I would like to stress caution against throwing blanket accusations around with just speculation, but I do wonder if this current Pope himself had any knowlage. His own brother ran a chior in Germany just after the alleged abuses took place. I find it hard to believe that brothers don't talk regularly and share information. Why was Benidict selected above all the other canidates? Was he the most qualified or just the most sympathetic to people like Bernard Law? Did they feel they had a friend in Benidict, one that wouldn't turn them over? I am quite suspicious myself. Where was Pope John Paul II when all this origionaly broke? There is no impeachment for a Pope, so he either needs to resign or a Cardinal can assume the duties if the current Pope is incapacitated. That makes me wonder about John Paul's condition with Alzimers in his last 10 years and what Cardinals were whispering in his ear and pulling the strings, and why. This is where the spotlight should be shined to get the whole picture because it was around this time that these abuse storys started to break and the 'wall of secrecy' seemed to have been built. Not something that John Paul's character would lead me to believe he would have condoned.
I am thinking;

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

With the millions of Catholics around the world and so may more good Priests I still would want the Church to continue on. I would hate to think that people will condem the entire institution for a minority of evil despicable people within the organization. That's why I can be found on the defencive in these threads.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Yes.

None of which changes what I have posted.

[removeduser_487563287433]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8558311.stm

Now the investigations into Catholic clergy raping children have spread to The Nethelrands and Austria. I dread the day when we hear of the scale of the abuse in the UK.

[Darth Red]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8558311.stm

Now the investigations into Catholic clergy raping children have spread to The Nethelrands and Austria. I dread the day when we hear of the scale of the abuse in the UK.

Could just point out that perhaps 1 thread titled 'Vatican corruption' rather that 4 or 5 different threads about the same topic may go a long way in furthering your arguments against the Catholic church and for truth? Monarchist does have a point, and I do realize that you, as a poster, are under no obligation to post news fairly, but it would be a show of genuine concern for the truth rather than starting a bunch of arguments that all stem from the same source. Just an opinion of how I am looking at this as a whole.

Secondly, I wouldn't be suprised to hear that this went on in other countrys that we havn't heard of yet. This seems to have been going on for 50 years and I don't belive this was unique to just Germany, Ireland and Boston. I hope the truth comes out from all of this and I pray for the families affected by these reprehensible behaviors. I only hope that it's proven to be something that has since stopped and adressed by the Church and not something that is continuing today.

Lastly I would like to say this is what I want to hear when I read a Catholic offical talking about what to do next and encouraging those that were abused to come foward. From your last post and link:

"They have demonstrated their desire for transparency and, in a certain sense, accelerated the emergence of the problem by inviting victims to speak out, even when the cases involved date from many years ago," said Father Federico Lombardi.

"By doing so, they have approached the matter 'on the right foot', because the correct starting point is recognition of what happened and concern for the victims and the consequences of the acts committed against them."

Recognition of what happened, most certainly would be an exellent starting point. Even if there was no 'cover-up' (not that I am buying it) just the fact that they were so silent about the next course of action leads one to believe that wrongdoing may have occured. I really believe that most humans are quite forgiving if just given the chance.

[Gromovnik]

It's good to see that their crimes are being exposed. There's no excuse for aiding and hiding child rapists.

[removeduser_487563287433]

DR, how can you believe anything the Catholic Church says when they have been shown to be operating a strict doctrine of secrecy and protecting these criminals, a doctrine they continue to practice, a doctrine that several countries have now condemned?

[removeduser_487563287433]

Newsnight are running with this story right now - specifically a single Irish Catholic priest that since fled to Britain, and is named in the Murphy Report as raping 32 children and suspectedly many more.

The Catholic Church protected him for many years, and then what punishment did they give him?

They paid him 30,000 Euros.

[motiv-8]

Bad year for the Church, eh. Or maybe Ferrets just makes it seem that way with the mountain of threads, I can't really tell.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Yeah it's a massive conspiracy where I've made loads of government reports and widespread outrage.