1.7 patch wishlist for Rome Total War

[Jopo_80]

I place this here to collect ideas on what a possible future patch of Rome Total War should include and what should be fixed. I don´t know if CA will ever publish such a patch, but as long as there´s a CA there´s hope and this wishlist is here also as a petition of sorts for such a patch to be made.

So... Post your ideas on what a 1.7 patch for RTW should include and what it should fix. Any bugs found any shortcomings?




I for one would vote for the removal of some if not all of the hardcoded limits found in Rome Total War, such as the 200 province limit, map picture size limit of only 500x500 pixels, perhaps the unit hitpoint limit of only 15 and such.
An overhaul of the Rome´s engine to a more modern standard would be most welcome I believe, perhaps they could update it to a same standard as Empire?

Other older TW games would benefit from an update aswell I believe, so make wishlists for those patches as well, perhaps they´ll listen at CA, for it wouldn´t take too much resources to make such patches I think?

-Cheers from Finland!

[Killerbee]

No way that CA will make a patch for an old game like RTW

[Jopo_80]

I know that it´s an older game, but no harm in asking the CA if they´d do a SMALLER patch, maybe just a few kilobytes in size to modify the hardcoded limits so they wouldn´t be so constraining for the mod community. I know most of the average gamers have already moved on to Empire Total War and such, but some keep the RTW on their machines because it´s the only game of this type that covers the Ancient period and hence important, until they release Rome 2 of course, now THAT would be nice, the Ancient period and newer graphics and features, like naval battles and stuff (How about reconstructing the battle of Salamis?). I just hope they don´t put those same sorts inbuilt constraints to their newer games, than they did with Rome and I hear Medieval 2 has them as well. What about Empire or Napoleon? Would they finally see the light of making the games open ended and free to modify?

By the way, what is CA´s attitude towards the mod community?

[Killerbee]

CA mostly ignores the community, as it's just a very tiny fraction of all customers, so no way they'll ever work on RTW on request by the community

[Jopo_80]

^

Dear Mr. Slackbladder... (HA HA ! Could´t resist the joke! Obviously seen the series?)


I am appalled to hear that the Creative Assembly !!??IGNORES??!! the modding community!?



It simply does not make any sense! It´s not good business sense! It´s bad PR! It´s counter productive, to ignore the ideas and feedback the community has to offer! It won´t help them make any better games to just ignore the public! I don´t know if this is a british trait, since CA is a british company, but I know one of their competitors, Paradox Interactive of Sweden, makers of 3d map based grand-strategy games such as Europa Universalis 3 (time period 1419-1830 on a day to day timeframe, time runs all the time unless paused for making decicions etc. and runs one day at a time on a variable speed) and WW-2 based Hearts of Iron 3 (1936-1948 on an hourly timeframe!), has a policy of active and fruitful cooperation with their modding community, with ideas being shared and taken aboard for patches etc.

Maybe we should all vote Paradox Interactive as the best game house right here on the TW forum as a protest vote! Maybe that would shake some sense into CA?

Maybe they need to be sent some polite e-mails explaining the popularity of mods (I am aware that some mods have even gotten shining reviews in games magazines), how many people have downloaded a mod and such data, maybe that would make them see the light and understand the reason in supporting the modding community actively.

Maybe they need to be sent screenshots or some other data about mods and be encouraged to view them more closely, so they can be impressed with the hard work people have put into their modding projects.
After all, modders are nothing short of game designers, they are just non-profit, amateur based projects, with huge amounts of talent on many areas, graphics, artwork, coding, designing, knowledge etc.

It was said even in a review of Europa Barbarorum (sounds like Europa Universalis doesn´t it? A credit to a great game perhaps?), that EB was a game of its own even, that´s very high praise coming from a dedicated gaming magazine, and puts the whole modding community in a VERY high standing on par with the games houses themselves. Amateurs (modders) on par with professionals (CA, Paradox etc.) and that´s where the modding community should be, on a respected status equal to the games houses and a very likely source for recruiting for said houses.

!! MOD POWER !!

!! RESPECT !!

!! AND A BIG THUMBS UP FOR ALL MODDING GROUPS !!


So, maybe the crew at CA is simply not aware of the true power of mods?

Otherwise it just doesn´t make sense why they would ignore one of the most active sections of their supporters and fans!
After all, you have to like the game pretty much to start actively making stuff for it! You have to see the potential the game engine has and then you have to have a vision of what the game needs to have to make it better!


-at 18.26 Finnish time (GMT +2) 8.3 (march).2010 : I will be getting my new machine soon, so I´ll come back to finish this post soon. Yay !! a new MACHINE !!


!! MOD COMMUNITY, MAKING THE GAMES BETTER !!

[Killerbee]

^

Dear Mr. Slackbladder... (HA HA ! Could´t resist the joke! Obviously seen the series?)


I am appalled to hear that the Creative Assembly !!??IGNORES??!! the modding community!?

Ofcourse I've seen the series Lord Flasheart ftw !

And CA doesn't really ignore TWC, it's just that it doesn't listen to the community.

[Xerrop]

What about Empire or Napoleon? Would they finally see the light of making the games open ended and free to modify?

Don´t think so. In both games you can´t modify nearly all aspects as in Rome or MTW2.
Large and (nearly new game) mods like Europa Barbarorum will never see the light on the Empire and NTW engine.

And there will never be a 1.7 patch for Rome - the game is six years old with three newer titles since. No company would release a new patch for such an outdated game.
They would maybe even lack many people that created Rome, so even if they feel the need for it they would be unable doing it.

[Maяcel]

RTW is already at version 1.9 (Alex), next on the list would be a Rome 2: TW, which would be far more interesting anyway.

[Jopo_80]

That´s it !!

I´ll start making arrangements for a protest poll ! (somebody just please tell me HOW to set up a poll in a thread, I´m new to the whole forums scene, never really written on any before, but NOW I´ve got something to write about ! )

Which one do you prefer? Paradox Interactive of Sweden (who actually listen and actively cooperate with their modding community) or The Creative Assembly (who has such a good track record of listening to pure reason and sensibility)?

I like Paradox. (With all the due respect to CA for their good games of course, but ignoring the gaming community is just pure BS as is this "locking up the game engine" stuff, what are they afraid of, or are they just spiting the community? )

If they are just spiting us, then maybe somebody needs to send some mails to the gaming press about an interesting story... ...that a major games house is IGNORING its most avid fans and some of its best possible sources for hints, ideas and feedback?
Plus of course trumpet the question VISIBLY on all possible forums. If it can truly be proven that they are in fact ignoring us and being hostile to the community, then... Are there any liaison persons here on the forum? Does the CA monitor these forums in any way? Do they keep contact with the admins of this forum for example etc.? They should, they really should have some sort of public liaisons keeping contact with the public and cooperating.

...And what is this "Empire and Napoleon are even !!?? LESS !!?? Moddable than Rome or M2TW ??!!" What are they doing, "locking up the game machine" so it can´t be modded ??!! If THAT isn´t hostility to the community then what is? The games should be less restrictive if anything, it´s just GOOD BUSINESS SENSE, their competitors are doing it (Paradox), why aren´t they? What sort of thinking drives them at the CA anyway?

They say they make the games for the hardcore strategists (THAT MEANS EXACTLY THE MODDING COMMUNITY, can´t really say WE because I´m not part of any mod group, I´ve just done some homegrown modding on a couple of my Paradox games to tweak the system to make it more interesting, to make some real MONSTERS out of the AI opponents, I like to be really CHALLENGED by the AI, really hopeless odds make me tick. ) and they cultivate the image that they are in the business because of PASSION for good strategy games?
If they are, then why are they ignoring their likeminded fans, the most active part of which are precisely the modding community, who put time and effort to creating additional content and improvements for the games at no cost, doing THEIR job because they WANT TO MAKE THE GAMES BETTER, TO MAKE THEM ALL THEY CAN BE !

...And WHY?? BECAUSE THE GAMES JUST AREN´T GOOD ENOUGH WHEN THEY COME OUT !! THEY MAY SHOW HUGE POTENTIAL, BUT THEY´RE OFTEN NOT NEARLY FINISHED ENOUGH WHEN THEY ARE PUBLISHED, BECAUSE OF FINANCIAL PRESSURES TO PUBLISH A NEW GAME ON SCHEDULE !!

Are they in it just for the money? Or do they really care about making good games?

...If they do, then they should actively support the community in their efforts to make the unfinished games BETTER (And they DO admit that they are unfinished when they leave CA.)

I hope some of this stuff reaches the ears of CA and smacks some sense in to them...

- PEACE !! From Finland

[Jopo_80]

But still...

I suggest we contact CA by whatever means available, and suggest they REMOVE ANY and ALL obstacles to modding, that means those hardcoded limits and all other stuff that may impede modding. I think I saw a list somewhere compiled of all the hardcoded limits found in RTW for example. Is there a similar list for all the other TW games?

Then I suggest we send all the lists to the CA and ask them to drop ALL of them, by making an update, a patch, for all their games.
It is entirely possible that people have changed at the CA over the years, but I do believe they have the necessary knowledge to do just such a patch, for even the older games and I don´t think it would even take that much of an effort, just a couple of programmers and some time, a day or two perhaps. Just locate the necessary lines of code and delete them or change them. ...and then publish the patches.

Not too much to ask is it? ...and now that they have a probable lull in their activities after Napoleon is out, then maybe they might even have enough time to do so, when they´re not "tied up on a project".

Besides it would show good support for the community to release those constraints, wouldn´t it, and a "we don´t do requests" attitude really isn´t helping anyone is it?

If the request is reasonable, well justified and the IDEA is good, then why not act upon it?

-Cheers!

PS. ...and in the future, ask the CA to make all the limits openly editable in the text files, so they can be easily removed if modders choose to do so, or why put them there in the first place, just LEAVE THEM OUT, make the games OPEN ENDED and FREE TO EDIT COMPLETELY, like some of the competitors do (Paradox). Hope they see the reason in learning from ones competition at CA. I think even the game engine could be editable and the values, commands and whatnot could be in a text file, open to editing by modders.

...And the notion that an executable can´t be modified legally? If you buy a tool, say a drill, do you ONLY buy a permission to use the drill, or do you have the permission to do whatever you want with it ? Can you take the drill apart and crank (a good movie) up the RPM´s legally, I think you can, it´s just that the original manufacturer does not answer to any of the malfunctions you might cause by doing so.

So the game engine itself should very well be moddable, You could add religions, naval battles and such to RTW if you knew how to code it or if the stuff was made simple enough to edit, like text files, or add something entirely new to Napoleon or Empire. What you could NOT do however, is try to make money with it, because if you use ANY part of the original game in your mod and try to sell it you´re trying to make money with THEIR product and THEIR intellectual property. That´s the limit I think?

[Squid]

They have been contacted, many times, and every time they've been contacted the answer is unequivocally no.

[Jopo_80]

"They say no..." (The Gladiator)
"People (CA) should understand when they´re conquered..." (the same movie)

...And what REASONS do they give for saying NO ??

I´d REALLY like to hear?

They REALLY NEED TO BE TALKED SOME SENSE AT CA !! They´re hurting their own business by ignoring the community !! ...Or their own reputation as a game house for strategy enthusiasts, which they claim to be.

-Cheers from Finland

PS. PLEASE put one of those Finnish flag waving smileys to the list.

[Squid]

"They say no..." (The Gladiator)
"People (CA) should understand when they´re conquered..." (the same movie)

...And what REASONS do they give for saying NO ??

I´d REALLY like to hear?

They REALLY NEED TO BE TALKED SOME SENSE AT CA !! They´re hurting their own business by ignoring the community !! ...Or their own reputation as a game house for strategy enthusiasts, which they claim to be.

-Cheers from Finland

PS. PLEASE put one of those Finnish flag waving smileys to the list.

Look at previous threads in this forum for details, and they don't need to give a reason and opening up old games to further modification is not going to hurt or at least not seriously hurt any current or future business.

[Jopo_80]

If you could point me some interesting threads on this matter or give me some keywords to search for, I´d be much obliged, for I don´t think I have the time to start blindly looking for stuff among the huge amounts of threads on these forums.

If we ask them completely reasonably and in good faith and good intent, WHY THEY HAVE THOSE LIMITS THERE AND WHY WOULD THEY NOT RELEASE THEM ? Then I´d say they do owe us an answer.
More especially so, if they cultivate the image of being a games house OF PLAYERS and FOR PLAYERS. I think they owe as answers to whatever questions we might have, since they are in the business of CUSTOMER SERVICE. They provide software and SUPPORT SERVICES. ANSWERING THE QUESTIONS OF THE PUBLIC IS A KEY PART OF GOOD CUSTOMER SERVICE AND SUPPORT. IT´S BUSINESS and they´re a SERVICE PROVIDER at the CA. They´re OBLIGED to answer.

If they don´t then perhaps somebody needs to tip the gaming press on their poor performance and PROVENLY lousy attitude, so they can be interviewed on the matter and some very tough questions asked. Perhaps THAT would shake some sense into them.

Taking a more INVOLVED and FRIENDLY attitude towards the gaming community, their fanbase, and especially the MODDING community, who are without a doubt some of the most ACTIVE and ENERGETIC fans, that they might possess, would simply BENEFIT them, not tax them in any way. Well, perhaps they might need to hire a few more people to handle the increased traffic of messages and mail, but the benefits would outweigh the costs at any time. Listening to the public and keeping tabs on their wishes is a key part of business, that´s how you respond to DEMAND.

Microsoft Windows has an active PRODUCT SUPPORT system... ...Every time there´s an error, the program sends a report automatically to the Microsoft. That´s listening to public demand and needs, a key part of CUSTOMER SERVICE. Microsoft owes us support for windows THROUGHOUT ITS SERVICE LIFE, SO IT IS WITH GAMES I SAY ! Even older games should be updated if there is a need for it, THEY PROVIDED THE GAME, THEY`RE RESPONSIBLE FOR IT ! WE PAID FOR IT, WE DESERVE IT !


Besides, we´re not asking them to overhaul the entire system are we? We´re just asking for a small patch to overcome some of the hindrances and shortcomings in the system. (Something they at CA openly admit there to be, so they owe us updates to make it more complete.)


There is a demand for good strategy games of the sort that TW series is and the CA is not the only one making these sorts of games. Ever heard of Imperial Glory ? Made by Pyro Studios and Eidos ? There is competition even in the field of strategy games and it would be completely FOOLISH for CA to lock themselves up in an ivory tower and think they have all the ideas all by themselves and that whatever they do, people will always buy their games no matter what they do.

How popular are mods anyway? How many downloads on any mod? How many downloads on Europa Barbarorum for example? Tens of thousands?
If the modding community spoke to the PRESS and talked about their wishes in public, then I think they would have no choice but to listen, for if the CA would not listen, then a competitor would definetely seize the opportunity and make a game that is more moddable and use that to gain an advantage in popularity.

What I´m saying is... ...THE MODDING COMMUNITY HAS POWER, PRESTIGE AND POPULARITY, USE IT, TO GAIN WHAT WE NEED FROM THE CA, IN A CONSTRUCTIVE AND REASONABLE FASHION, WE DESERVE TO BE LISTENED TO, ALL OF US !!

Who prefers Linux over Windows and such. More openness draws the crowds. Especially the more committed and knowledgeable fans, who know what to look for and know what they want in a game.

NOT JUST A GOOD VANILLA PACKAGE, BUT GOOD EXPANDABILITY THROUGH MODDING !

MODDING PROVIDES SOMETHING OF VALUE TO THE GAMES !! IT PROVIDES EXPANDABILITY AND NEW CONTENT WHICH ADD PLAYABILITY TO THE GAMES, IT IS SOMETHING OF MONETARY VALUE AND THAT SHOULD GET THEIR ATTENTION AT THE CA OR ANY OTHER GAMES HOUSE.

The capability of making mods to a game by EVERY user, so that everyone can make their OWN mod and modify the game to suit their own fantasies and visions, is a key aspect in games these days.

Operation Flashpoint (a first-person virtual battlefield simulator) and its sequels, ALL Paradox´s games (Europa Universalis series, Hearts of Iron series, Victoria series, Europa Universalis: Rome series etc. ) etc. have VERY GOOD MODDABILITY.
Why are they at the CA going AGAINST the current and curtailing and hampering moddability?

If Paradox started making TW style games with better moddability and newer graphics, I might very well opt for a Paradox game and leave CA in the cold. Maybe they should be suggested something like that at Paradox or at some other games studio. ...that there would be eager fans and modders just waiting to switch over loyalty from CA to another games house if the come up with a better product.

When Operation Flashpoint 2 was being made, the games house and producer split and Bohemia Interactive (the games house) made their own version of a sequel titled Armed Assault and now Armed Assault 2, and the producer who had the rights to the famous Operation Flashpoint title, made their own, Operation Flashpoint 2: Dragon Rising.

Which one will I buy? I´ll go for the Armed Assault 2, precisely because of its MODS. They even have a Finnish Defence Forces MOD for Arma 2, legacy from Op Flashpoint, they just translated the mod to Arma 2.
...So, MODS HAVE THE POWER TO INFLUENCE PURCHASING DECICIONS IN THE PUBLIC, IT´S POWER !! IT`S MOD POWER !! :sparta:

So... MODS ARE expansion packs, that provide VALUABLE addition to the VANILLA games content at NO COST to the original manufacturer or designer. Maybe CA should pay for the MOD groups for making their games more popular and giving them new content and stuff ?

MOD groups make all the graphics and stuff for their mods and CA reaps the benefits with increased sales ??

I say, For that reason alone, the boosted popularity and benefits the mods provide to CA sales, THEY OWE THE MOD COMMUNITY SOME COOPERATION, RESPECT AND SOME DECENT CIVILITY IN THEIR DEALINGS WITH THE COMMUNITY !! Not to mention that the modders are customers, who are entitled to FULL CUSTOMER SUPPORT by their service provider, the CA. We pay them well and we deserve to get good value for our money from the games houses, who provide us these games.

IT`S CUSTOMER RIGHTS !! THE CUSTOMER IS KING !!

-Cheers From Finland ! Where Customer Rights are upheld reasonably well.

[Squid]

If you could point me some interesting threads on this matter or give me some keywords to search for, I´d be much obliged, for I don´t think I have the time to start blindly looking for stuff among the huge amounts of threads on these forums.

Search for threads in this forum that I've posted in. I know I posted in the last one that discussed the issue.

If we ask them completely reasonably and in good faith and good intent, WHY THEY HAVE THOSE LIMITS THERE AND WHY WOULD THEY NOT RELEASE THEM ?

Given how hold the game is many of those limits are likely put in place so that the game wouldn't crawl to a halt on the hardware of the time. As for why not release them there are countless the reasons, the least of which is the time and money that would need to be put into a game which will not produce a return equal to the cost of creating the patch for it.

Then I´d say they do owe us an answer.
More especially so, if they cultivate the image of being a games house OF PLAYERS and FOR PLAYERS. I think they owe as answers to whatever questions we might have, since they are in the business of CUSTOMER SERVICE. They provide software and SUPPORT SERVICES. ANSWERING THE QUESTIONS OF THE PUBLIC IS A KEY PART OF GOOD CUSTOMER SERVICE AND SUPPORT. IT´S BUSINESS and they´re a SERVICE PROVIDER at the CA. They´re OBLIGED to answer.

CA doesn't owe anybody anything and your sense of entitlement is misplaced. It might be good business practice to answer questions, which they have on this issue when asked, but neither CA nor any other business is obliged to answer any question.

If they don´t then perhaps somebody needs to tip the gaming press on their poor performance and PROVENLY lousy attitude, so they can be interviewed on the matter and some very tough questions asked. Perhaps THAT would shake some sense into them.

The press would rightly look at that tip and ignore it as being baseless, see my above comment.

Taking a more INVOLVED and FRIENDLY attitude towards the gaming community, their fanbase, and especially the MODDING community, who are without a doubt some of the most ACTIVE and ENERGETIC fans, that they might possess, would simply BENEFIT them, not tax them in any way. Well, perhaps they might need to hire a few more people to handle the increased traffic of messages and mail, but the benefits would outweigh the costs at any time. Listening to the public and keeping tabs on their wishes is a key part of business, that´s how you respond to DEMAND.

They are friendly, they post and answer questions on this forum and others. Responding to demands does not equate to giving in to them.

Microsoft Windows has an active PRODUCT SUPPORT system... ...Every time there´s an error, the program sends a report automatically to the Microsoft. That´s listening to public demand and needs, a key part of CUSTOMER SERVICE. Microsoft owes us support for windows THROUGHOUT ITS SERVICE LIFE, SO IT IS WITH GAMES I SAY ! Even older games should be updated if there is a need for it, THEY PROVIDED THE GAME, THEY`RE RESPONSIBLE FOR IT ! WE PAID FOR IT, WE DESERVE IT !

You think microsoft listens to (and gives in to) public demands?!?!?! You're also forgetting that microsoft does not owe support, but chooses to provide it, as did CA with 4 patches to RTW and 4 patches to M2TW. Not only that microsoft decides what is the length of service life for its programs and can choose to discontinue that service at any time. The only thing you deserve when you purchase a product is that it performs as advertised, which both RTW/M2TW both do, whatever the hardcoded limits are.

How popular are mods anyway?

How many downloads on any mod? How many downloads on Europa Barbarorum for example? Tens of thousands?

How many of those are repeat downloads? And tens of thousands, they likely sold hundreds of thousands if not millions of copies, so the over-inflated numbers you attribute to the modding community is not particularly large.

If the modding community spoke to the PRESS and talked about their wishes in public, then I think they would have no choice but to listen, for if the CA would not listen, then a competitor would definetely seize the opportunity and make a game that is more moddable and use that to gain an advantage in popularity.

One the press would ignore it as I said above, two if another competitor could create a game that would take away from CA fan base and make then a lot of money then it would have already been released. You think other developers aren't aware of complaints against their competitors? Any business likely has people watching their competitors to try and get a step up on them.

What I´m saying is... ...THE MODDING COMMUNITY HAS POWER

We have none or so little it doesn't matter.

, PRESTIGE

Again we have none or so little it doesn't matter.

AND POPULARITY

See my remarks about the number of people using mods relative to the number of sales. Again we have none or so little it doesn't matter.

, USE IT, TO GAIN WHAT WE NEED FROM THE CA, IN A CONSTRUCTIVE AND REASONABLE FASHION, WE DESERVE TO BE LISTENED TO, ALL OF US !!

We have nothing to use. And stop confusing listening to the modding community with actually doing what the modding community demands.

Who prefers Linux over Windows and such. More openness draws the crowds. Especially the more committed and knowledgeable fans, who know what to look for and know what they want in a game.

Which is why 4.6% of people use linux. That's a huge crowd!! The "more committed and knowledgeable fans" don't make a big enough body of people to listen to.

NOT JUST A GOOD VANILLA PACKAGE, BUT GOOD EXPANDABILITY THROUGH MODDING!

Both RTW and M2TW have a good vanilla package and great expandability (see mods like FATW, SS, RS, RTR, BC, etc, etc). Just because something doesn't meet your standards does not mean it isn't good.

MODDING PROVIDES SOMETHING OF VALUE TO THE GAMES !! IT PROVIDES EXPANDABILITY AND NEW CONTENT WHICH ADD PLAYABILITY TO THE GAMES, IT IS SOMETHING OF MONETARY VALUE AND THAT SHOULD GET THEIR ATTENTION AT THE CA OR ANY OTHER GAMES HOUSE.

The capability of making mods to a game by EVERY user, so that everyone can make their OWN mod and modify the game to suit their own fantasies and visions, is a key aspect in games these days.

Operation Flashpoint (a first-person virtual battlefield simulator) and its sequels, ALL Paradox´s games (Europa Universalis series, Hearts of Iron series, Victoria series, Europa Universalis: Rome series etc. ) etc. have VERY GOOD MODDABILITY.
Why are they at the CA going AGAINST the current and curtailing and hampering moddability?

If Paradox started making TW style games with better moddability and newer graphics, I might very well opt for a Paradox game and leave CA in the cold. Maybe they should be suggested something like that at Paradox or at some other games studio. ...that there would be eager fans and modders just waiting to switch over loyalty from CA to another games house if the come up with a better product.

When Operation Flashpoint 2 was being made, the games house and producer split and Bohemia Interactive (the games house) made their own version of a sequel titled Armed Assault and now Armed Assault 2, and the producer who had the rights to the famous Operation Flashpoint title, made their own, Operation Flashpoint 2: Dragon Rising.

Which one will I buy? I´ll go for the Armed Assault 2, precisely because of its MODS. They even have a Finnish Defence Forces MOD for Arma 2, legacy from Op Flashpoint, they just translated the mod to Arma 2.
...So, MODS HAVE THE POWER TO INFLUENCE PURCHASING DECICIONS IN THE PUBLIC, IT´S POWER !! IT`S MOD POWER !! :sparta:

I'll say it for the third time, the amount of people who are influenced solely by the mods available for a game are small relative to the total number of sales expected of your typical game. I'd be willing to bet that most people bought the game and any mods they end up playing to extend the life of their purchase is merely a bonus.

So... MODS ARE expansion packs, that provide VALUABLE addition to the VANILLA games content at NO COST to the original manufacturer or designer. Maybe CA should pay for the MOD groups for making their games more popular and giving them new content and stuff ?

They are expansion packs that CA gets absolutely no money for, and as previously pointed out the amount sales that are tied to mods or potential mods for game is minimal relative to the total number of sales.