US-Rome similarities

[4th Regiment]

I have found many similarities between Rome and US. Some time ago, I even saw a TV show on History channel I think that even explains why. Basically founders of the US wanted to copy Roman plutocratic system not Greek democratic one, which was too much “power to the people” for them and too anarchistic due to that.
By now we are somewhere in the late-late republic period, when the plutocracy is so obvious, rich-poor gap is bigger and bigger and practically all important decisions for the country and centers of real power are in the hands no more than few hundred people and families. We have(for now, like in late republic) slow decline of economy, slow decline of morality and typical American (Roman) “values” and “way” of life, US-Roman citizen become less and less important, “barbarization” of the army and use of axularie(allay) troops (because US-Roman citizens do not want to fight and do not have “interest” to do so), slowly (again for now) “barbarization” of some US-Roman territories….
What do you think about this?

[Son of the Empire]

Hehe,, your right... there is a "roman" culture in the U.S. But that won't mean it's bad would it?? I myself think America is becoming more and more national socialitstic,, like Rome and Germany... I'm not calling them an "evil axis" or something... but they have a kinnda "love ourselves" way of looking on themselves. Like "god bless america" and such... Plus they got the neat little eagle in their national weapon,, hehe,, you gotta love it....

Anyways,, I think you went a little long on your view of the american auxillaries. I don't really know what your pointing towards, maybe the UN peacekeepers?? If not,, I've never heared about the U.S hireing people from other nations to do their fighting,, And I've never heard about U.S. sending people that is unamerican, with a promise of american citisenship, like the romans did...

[Kanaric]

America doesn't use foreign "auxillaries". If we do they are allied forces under our command.

I personally think we should have some kind of foreign legion though.

[Gorash]

America does allow foreign citizens to join the US Army, Navy, Marines, and Air Force. They get citizenship for serving.

[MadBurgerMaker]

America does allow foreign citizens to join the US Army, Navy, Marines, and Air Force. They get citizenship for serving.

Partially correct. Services are made available to foreign nationals so that the process of obtaining their citizenship is a bit easier, but theyre not guaranteed to get it. Hell...the admin guy on my ship, a Filipino, wasnt able to get his citizenship after 23 (or more) years in the Navy.

They also arent allowed to do certain jobs, etc.

[Scottish_Canadian Mutt]

I see a large similarity between the roman excuse of conquering it's neighbours in order to "spread their superior roman values" and the american version, "spreading democracy". The nazis used similar excuses when they stormed across europe.

[Siblesz]

The New Rome:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=13247

[meh_cd]

I see a large similarity between the roman excuse of conquering it's neighbours in order to "spread their superior roman values" and the american version, "spreading democracy". The nazis used similar excuses when they stormed across europe.

Spreading democracy to where? One country is all (Iraq). I'd hardly call that similar to how Rome conquered (or at least tried to conquer) anything that it saw. Korea and Vietnam were to stop communism - which is another topic altogether. Afghanistan was to kick some arse after 9/11, but I suppose you could argue that it was similar to Iraq.

BTW, nice one comparing us to Nazis. Always good.

[danzig]

I see a large similarity between the roman excuse of conquering it's neighbours in order to "spread their superior roman values" and the american version, "spreading democracy". The nazis used similar excuses when they stormed across europe.

Nice try but no, spreading democracy became the motto only after no WMDs were fought. There is no similiarity between Nazis and America except maybe in your head. The only real similarity between Rome and the US is that it seems any super/dominate power in a specific era will attempt to maintain/enlarge its influence over the rest of the world but that is something most 'empire' type powers have done from Alexander's brief empire to Romans to British empire to the US.

[John I Tzimisces]

I see a large similarity between the roman excuse of conquering it's neighbours in order to "spread their superior roman values" and the american version, "spreading democracy". The nazis used similar excuses when they stormed across europe.

Ah, I see. Living under Nazi germany therefore, is just as good as living in America...


Too bad romans WERE superior to everyone else who else at the time built gigantic monuments with a utilitarian purpose? Trajans forum, the aqueducts...no else had anything like this.

America one of these days is gonna fall from the title as world superpower. We aren't gonna split apart tho. "American" is too ambiguous a title. A civil war like the one of the 19th century is impossible. The states are too united by the central govt (largely due to the expansion of the federal govt in the past century) to have infighting, and even the most conservative whackjob and liberal hippy has to admit, dammit, we're all americans.

Why the comparison to rome tho? Rome's fall in 476 AD was very, very gradual. The last chance it had of surviving was during the line of Constantine, and they died out. First, too many ENEMIES. America has enemies, but unlike the Romans, we have powerful allies. Second, zero will to fight. Romans didn't do any of their fighting, and their volunteer army was basically nada. The american army, on the other hand, is well-trained, and large. Very much unlike the late Roman army. Third, Rome was WRACKED by civil wars in the decades before the fall. Last civil war i saw we had was over 100 years ago, was our only one, and, well, refer to my previous writing about the prospect of future civil wars.

[Ulf]

Well consider this. One day, people might be playing America: Total War...

[SovietDoom]

Well consider this. One day, people might be playing America: Total War...

That game would be boring......Considering that American history is very peaceful compared to European or Asian.

No, people would be speaking English or English variants all over the world, and they will venerate the American democracy or the variants of that all over the world. Believe me, The USA and Rome will both be regarded as the two most influential empires in history.

[imb39]

That game would be boring......Considering that American history is very peaceful compared to European or Asian.

On the contrary, I think it has a very violent history... Possibly no more violent than anybody elses, though.

Now lets think...

American War for Independence
1812
Manifest Destiny - Drive to West
Civil War
Mexico War
WW1
WW2
Korean War
Vietnam

Not bad for a country that has been around for 230 years or so - 1 war per 20 years (not counting any small ones).
And the lsit goes on.

[Felixion]

It's hard to compare a society now, to one thousands of years ago. People have changed, the value for life, respect, property, and happieness have gone both up, and down since then. But in the end, it would be really quite impossible for America to ever have a similar outcome like the Roman empire. The world has changed too much, it's too civilized, to cultered, and too greedy.

[eltrevo]

if we are in the same stage of history as Rome was before it fell right now then something tells me that we will be destroyed in a few years.

[imb39]

The rise of China will be America's biggest challenge. I like the 400 years rule. It fits in so well with China's development...

America's achilles heel, I think, is the defecit that they keep on running up. I'm still staggered that this is basically ignored by everyone in the interests of tax cuts (I understand why it's done - but the deficit keeps on rising!) but this for another day...

[nahirean]

The rise of China will be America's biggest challenge. I like the 400 years rule. It fits in so well with China's development...

America's achilles heel, I think, is the defecit that they keep on running up. I'm still staggered that this is basically ignored by everyone in the interests of tax cuts (I understand why it's done - but the deficit keeps on rising!) but this for another day...

That is a result of the Federal Reserve(a private bank.) and debt based banking. That can only be resolved by giving the power to issue money back where it belongs, to the American Government and the American people. Fractional reserve lending is a menace to society and has been noted as such by many distinguished men in history.

[totalwar junkie]

I think its funny when people talk about a "decline of morals". Jon Stewart has handled that well a few times. Pointing out that to some people "segregation was more moral?" "discrimination against women in the work place was more moral?". I think morals have changed, but I dont think they have "declined" by any means, in some aspects, yes, in others no, in many they have inclined.

As far as the Rome and America comparison, there are many similarities. But the fall of Rome didnt happen overnight, and so with America I doubt it will either.

[Jesus The Inane]

Gladiatorial games - American Football.


I think what the topic creator meant about auxiliaries is that America has lots of immigrants, and some of them join the army?? I don't know how it works, but I asked the recruiters wehther I could join the army without having a green card, and they said "no"...

[SovietInsurgent]

All empires are fundamentally similar, but the founders of the U.S. made a particular effort to model the U.S. after the Roman empire. If we lived in ancient Rome it would not be very politically different, a few families would dominate politics, except instead of Bush's and Kennedy's it would be Claudian's and the Flavian's and such.

As far as empires go the U.S. seems to be running out of steam and coming to a slow and painful end, it is starting to give off that dying empire stink like the USSR did before it croaked. The American politcal structure has gone from a dynamic, efficient, and powerful machine to a dysfunctional mess that can hardly take care of its own people let alone manage huge foreign campaigns. All we have to do now is to wait for the barbarian invasions :sweatingb .