How to change the Hardcoded limits?

[Jopo_80]

Alas, RTW and I hear other TW games suffer from the same problems. Hardcoded limits coded in to the game.

Map size is limited.

Province amount limited to 200.

etc. etc.

Does anyone know how to change these limits?

CA would know of course, has anyone written to them, politely asking them to make a patch to release at least some of the constraints, so that modders can get on with making the games better?

If we all made a petition or a request to CA, would they listen to us?
Do they listen to what´s going on in the forums?
Do they listen to the public opinion?

I hope they do...

If the games creators won´t help us, then could someone with programming skill try to hack into the games core files and find out where these hardcoded limits reside and then...
...Perhaps we could make a patch ourselves or make instructions on how to edit these limits to something more allowing and more useful to the modding community.

I doubt that the CA would object to such an effort, at least with the older games like RTW which is some five years old by now. They´ve received their share of cash from the game by now so their interests are looked after very well.
It would actually be a very kind gesture from the CA to help by publishing a patch releasing those harcoded constraints, perhaps a few kind requests might do the trick, now that they might have some time to do such patches as they´ve just completed Napoleon TW.

Does someone know, in which files do these hardcoded limits reside? ...and what program to use to edit them?
I´m just a beginner in modding, but I tried to locate those hardcodes, but couldn´t find them in RTW. Anyone had any better luck or more skill?



-Cheers from Finland!

[Jopo_80]

Some progress perhaps in changing the hardcoded limits of RTW...

I opened up the .exe file, where I suspect at least some, if not all of the province limits reside, with Resource Tuner program and found this....


DECAL_CONFIG_DIALOG DIALOGEX 0, 0, 205, 196, 0
STYLE DS_SETFONT | DS_MODALFRAME | WS_CAPTION
EXSTYLE WS_EX_TOOLWINDOW | WS_EX_CLIENTEDGE | WS_EX_STATICEDGE
CAPTION "Decal config"
LANGUAGE LANG_ENGLISH, SUBLANG_ENGLISH_US
FONT 8, "MS Sans Serif"
{
DEFPUSHBUTTON "OK", 1, 21, 175, 50, 14
PUSHBUTTON "Cancel", 2, 77, 175, 50, 14
LTEXT "Start Size", -1, 18, 21, 31, 8
LTEXT "End Size", -1, 18, 34, 29, 8
LTEXT "Anim Time", -1, 18, 47, 34, 8
EDITTEXT "", 1004, 57, 15, 27, 14, ES_AUTOHSCROLL | ES_NUMBER
EDITTEXT "", 1005, 57, 30, 27, 14, ES_AUTOHSCROLL | ES_NUMBER
EDITTEXT "", 1006, 94, 15, 27, 14, ES_AUTOHSCROLL | ES_NUMBER
PUSHBUTTON "Apply", 1007, 133, 175, 50, 14
EDITTEXT "", 1011, 94, 30, 27, 14, ES_AUTOHSCROLL | ES_NUMBER
EDITTEXT "", 1008, 57, 46, 27, 14, ES_AUTOHSCROLL | ES_NUMBER
EDITTEXT "", 1012, 94, 46, 27, 14, ES_AUTOHSCROLL | ES_NUMBER
GROUPBOX "Colour keyframes", -1, 7, 65, 191, 61
COMBOBOX "", 1014, 13, 78, 130, 42, NOT CBS_SIMPLE | CBS_DROPDOWN | CBS_AUTOHSCROLL | CBS_SORT | WS_VSCROLL
EDITTEXT "", 1015, 62, 105, 27, 14, ES_AUTOHSCROLL | ES_NUMBER
EDITTEXT "", 1016, 96, 105, 27, 14, ES_AUTOHSCROLL | ES_NUMBER
EDITTEXT "", 1017, 129, 105, 27, 14, ES_AUTOHSCROLL | ES_NUMBER
EDITTEXT "", 1018, 19, 105, 27, 14, ES_AUTOHSCROLL | ES_NUMBER
EDITTEXT "", 1019, 163, 105, 27, 14, ES_AUTOHSCROLL | ES_NUMBER
LTEXT "Time (0-1)", -1, 19, 95, 32, 8
LTEXT "Alpha", -1, 62, 95, 19, 8
LTEXT "Red", -1, 96, 95, 14, 8
LTEXT "Green", -1, 129, 95, 20, 8
LTEXT "Blue", -1, 163, 95, 15, 8
GROUPBOX "Texture", -1, 7, 129, 191, 34
EDITTEXT "", 1013, 15, 140, 175, 12, ES_AUTOHSCROLL
GROUPBOX "Misc", -1, 7, 7, 191, 58
PUSHBUTTON "Add", 1020, 149, 77, 40, 12
}

Could THIS be the Province limit? RGB values set as limits to what the game will accept? (Ltext "red" "green" "blue" and obvious RGB values) Could Ltext be for Limit Text?

Can anyone make sense of this...??? We need someone with coding skill obviously and need to experiment perhaps.



I also found this....


EDITOR_MENU MENU
LANGUAGE LANG_ENGLISH, SUBLANG_ENGLISH_US
{
POPUP "Components"
{
MENUITEM "Interactive Effects", 40001
}
POPUP "System"
{
MENUITEM "Switch to game", 40002
}
}


An Editor Menu?? Now THAT is very interesting... Could there be an editor built in to the engine that just needs to be activated with the proper command and it would allow you to edit the games engine?

I mean, it would make sense that they used some sort of graphical tool to code the engine, it simpler than coding ones and zeros right? ...and after they got the basics running they might have just embedded the editor with the game files or into the .exe file? ...Or made the editor part of the interface, to tune the engine and test it constantly, a sort of "game makers only" editor mode of the game?

Could it be a case of "everything you want or need is already here?"

---------------------
NOTA BENE!! PLEASE NOTE!!

Ok, I´ll put this here as a sort of a disclaimer and a WARNING, editing the .exe file might be dangerous and could lead to malfunction, edit at your own peril. Of legal issues I do not know, but I GUESS it should be legal to modify these things for personal use. Of distribution (spreading) I do not know, but SELLING modified products as your own is definetely Illegal, I guess, according to the finnish system and CA is a british company so...

My aims are solely in good faith (if that´s worth a damn), to improve the game and to make possible more ambitious mods mainly concerning currently with the RTW´s 200 province limit, whether this could be lifted to allow for bigger and more province rich maps. I would encourage all to try and contact the CA upon this matter first, to try and talk them into releasing an official patch updating RTW and other similarly hampered games to a modern standard.
----------------------


-Cheers !

ANYONE with coding skill, WE NEED YOUR HELP!

[Augustus Lucifer]

CA would not help us to fix these, and the only time they've been contacted concerning it that I'm aware of, which concerned a relatively insubstantial change to some hardcoded string, they didn't allow for it to be changed. Modifying the EXE without permission would be in contravention of the EULA and if we allowed such a thing to be distributed on TWC then it's likely CA would break ties with us and could pursue legal action.

What might be possible is a program like Oblivion Script Extender which re-directs hard coded hooks after they're loaded into memory so that it doesn't make any actual modifications to the EXE. This behavior is similar though on a different level to what Wine for Ubuntu does with Windows system calls, and I'm not sure a claim could be made that the source was modified when no files are changed and re-distributed, and further the program would require the EXE, which is another huge problem when we talk of these things since people start distributing modified EXEs which can lead to piracy.

[Jopo_80]

I´m extremely sad to hear that the CA would be so inflexible with such a reasonable and sensible request??

After all, my first avenue of action would of course be to contact the CA, the original manufacturer for a patch to release those constraints, which are there for no reason whatsoever, at least I can´t see their reasoning for example in the 200 province limit. It is completely possible to have over 14000 (as in Paradox Interactive´s Hearts of Iron 3) provinces with no problems whatsoever, it is simply a coded limit that THEY wished to impose upon us, if I want to be mean, but for what reason did the crew at CA do so, that´s what I´d like to know? ...Of course, the CA is the king in these matters (All respect and applause for them for a great series of games with HUGE potential.), they made the game and all our attempts are simply amateurish toying around and as long as we don´t start seeking a profit with THEIR product, as long as we keep it non-profit and non-official (use at your own risk, no guarantees) basis, we can toy around safely without fear of persecution from hungry lawyers. I believe that is the case if my basic legal knowhow is correct, I dunno, I operate by a finnish standard, not british, I dunno how the british legal system would interpret this stuff?

Anyone a lawyer or a law student here, so we could ask?

But really, would it be too much to ask for CA to publish a small official patch, just for the modding community´s needs, after all, mods are quite popular and it would show good PR and good customer support to help us out and since it is an older game, I don´t think they´re that interested in what happens to the game after so many years since its release, even many of the people who played it have moved on to other games or grown up out of playing or something...
I just hope that the crew at CA don´t see it that way aswell and refuse to update the game exactly because it´s old and they´re all tied up in their new projects, what ever they are after Napoleon.
What it would take I believe, is ONE CA programmer who knows how these engines work and 15 minutes of time, they could release those constraints in very short order if they chose to, so why haven´t they done so already? I don´t see any reason to keep the game (RTW) and correction, several games, like Medieval 2 Total War which also suffers from a province limit I hear and undoubtedly other constraints, from reaching their full potential and growing in the hands of the modding community. Perhaps a good update might breathe some life into an old game (Rome is now some 5 years old, an eternity in the computer world.), making it more playable with new mods.

How many mods would jump at the chance of making a larger world if they had the chance? Or the possibility of coding in new features or something that´s been previously limited?

I know I´d like to see something like the Chinese or the Japanese battling the Romans or the Greeks in India, Romans conquering the Yangtse river or something. The units are already there I believe, there are some Asia mods for RTW with suitable unit and building textures, the mods would just have to "unite" to create a coherent whole, with the whole world map as a playing ground, now that would be great.

If only, if only the CA would listen to a request for a patch, now that they might have some spare time after they´ve just finished Napoleon, now might be a good time to try and contact them with ideas and suggestions for updates on older games, they might have time to do those patches before they begin another new project and immerse themselves into it.

After all, one has to presume that they´re a pretty decent crew there in the CA, they´re strategy gamers like us, after all, they make them for a living and creating something like these games has to be a passion, not just a dreary job that you do from 9 to 5

I believe reason might actually prevail if they are given the right vision of the awsome potential these games truly hold, map-based grand strategy and tactical combat combined, that´s a recipe for great games, hopefully they see the wisdom of letting these games fulfill their full potential by not fencing the games in with artificial constraints.

I don´t know if CA listens or monitors these forums, but I hope they get the message and listen to the modding community and the public´s opinions and suggestions, for there could be some very good ideas coming from the vast gaming public, ideas to make these games even better, the CA just has to choose which ones to use and perhaps one of the wisest moves could be to make the game engines "non-limited" and "open ended", so they can be expanded and modified freely, so mods can be made to suit everyones tastes. Paradox Interactive has a pretty good record in this I hear, they listen to their forums and modding community and the games are easily and freely moddable, something the CA could take note of.

-Cheers!

[Jopo_80]

Here´s another idea, just out of the hat.

What is actually the role of the executable? what if....

Let´s take another game, Empire Total War. If empire doesn´t have the province restrictions and rome does, then why not copy the empire´s executable over Rome´s? Would that cause a triumph and an updated Rome, an Empire RTW mod? or just a crash to desktop? with my luck, it´d be just a CTD but hey, at least it´s an idea, that´s a start.

And as an idea, I think it might actually work, in principle, take the newer engine of Empire and slap all the graphics stuff, units and buildings etc. to it and you´d have lots of possibilities for additional modding, technology trees, naval battles and such that Empire has, but Rome Doesn´t.

Worth thinking about, I think.

^^ ...So the program you mentioned would redirect hardcoded hooks, like the province limit thing? ...and so since no files would be modified, then no issues with the EULA? Great.


---------
Of course, it has to be mentioned, that looking for ways to circumvent something like these hardcodes is wrong, the CA should do it for us, THEY should remove those senseless limits on their games.

-Peace!

[Jopo_80]

Does anyone know?

What does... DECAL_CONFIG_DIALOG DIALOGEX 0, 0, 205, 196, 0

....Decal mean? Decalibrate?

What about the other things? Any knowledge?

[Killerbee]

This thread is probably on the edge of thingss not allowed by CA

[Jopo_80]

You know, I´m amazed that people haven´t written to CA about this stuff earlier, it should have been one of the first things that modders would have looked for... ...for more open endedness, no artificial limits to map size or province amounts. Or if they have, then why would CA refuse such a reasonable request? Do they have a logical reason for having those limits there? I´d REALLY like to know what thinking was behind those limits...

-Historical accuracy? They wanted to limit the game to a certain area? But they could have done that just by leaving the vanilla game map as it is and allowed the modding crews to construct whatever they wanted. Besides there are mods for Asia and Middle Earth I think, but none of those can be more than 200 provinces, because of the hardcode.

As I´ve mentioned, the same map generation system is in use by Paradox in their games and they have more than 1700 and up to and above of 14000 provinces with similar colour patch map files. Nothing is keeping the RTW and other TW games from becoming all they can be, except CA.
I think they need to be written some polite e-mails asking them to see the light in this matter. They´re reasonable people I´m sure, they´ll agree if they get enough names or good enough of reasoning to make the patches.

What is the attitude of CA towards modding anyway? are they against it, or for it, as I hope they are and as is just sensible?

If they want to support the modding community , then perhaps they could release some sort of patch releasing the hardcoded limits just for the modding community? A patch that could be included with any mod that needs a larger map or new features, call it a "modding patch", really giving the now older RTW engine more freely for the modding community to use.

I think they´re more interested in their newer projects at the CA, because why haven´t there been any new patches since 1.6 of BI? It can´t be because the game is finished, it´s far from it.
That´s of course because CA is a company and they need to publish new games to make money and probably all their programmers moved on to work on another project, that´s why Rome hasn´t been updated in a long while, but maybe it´s time. They might even have time to do so at the CA JUST NOW, because they´ve just finished Napoleon, and they´re probably taking a break and there´s a lull before any new projects are started, time for brainstorming etc.

I believe they´d listen to reason if they get a few good and positive e-mails straight to their office. Can´t rely on these PR folks to get anything to the proper programming people, they´ll just say "thank you for your feedback" and push Delete. The PR people are there precisely to ward off too much mail and such and give the design team space and peace to work in, they won´t bother the programming team just because of a letter, will they? But nevertheless, there has to be an attempt to reach the CA crew with petitions and e-mails, be constructive and polite, give them your ideas , maybe you´ve come up with something they haven´t thought of yet? Maybe they might just write the idea down somewhere and take a look at it in their next project or add it to a patch as a new feature.

Keep the flag high and Cheers from Finland!

[Killerbee]

You know, I´m amazed that people haven´t written to CA about this stuff earlier

'Tis quite obvious you're new here, as it's already been done say ... 500 times ?

[Xerrop]

Do they have a logical reason for having those limits there? I´d REALLY like to know what thinking was behind those limits...

Maybe because the game would not be playable . Have you ever tried conquering all 200 provinces during a campaign? Or controlling 50 units on the battlefield instead of only 16 or 20 as it is now? These are hardcoded limits having a reason.
Others like only seven culture slots or only 20 or 30 faction slots are something other. Those would be cool to have edited.

As I´ve mentioned, the same map generation system is in use by Paradox in their games and they have more than 1700 and up to and above of 14000 provinces with similar colour patch map files. Nothing is keeping the RTW and other TW games from becoming all they can be, except CA.

Ok I haven´t played EU or any other Paradox game. But I´m sure they have no real time battles in Total War-style. That´s one of the reason for fewer provinces. Imagine all the battles you would have to fight with 1700 provinces. After some years/turns into the campaign you would need whole days of finishing only one turn.

When I started playing Europa Barbarorum (a Rome-mod) I felt also there are too few provinces in Greece. It would be funny having 20 provinces in the Greek and Macedonian area to allow many additional factions like Sparta, Achaean and Aetolian League. But it would be good only when playing them. Now imagine playing another faction from outside Greece like the Romans. You would need endless time and too many battles only for conquering Greece, only a small part of the historical Roman expansion. It would simply not fit to EB which spans from Hispania to the Indus-Valley. When having a smaller scope like the upcoming RTR VII you can add more towns there.

And the mentioned incorporation of the whole world in Medieval or Rome is something I wouldn´t like. There should be historical relevance for the factions and their wars against each other. So the expansion of various factions should be limited to reasonable borders --> no Roman legions or French knights fighting Chinese forces.
There is also a reason why only India is featured in Empire. There were no important battles or contacts between China or Japan and the various colonial powers ...

[Jopo_80]

No I haven´t yet tried conquering all the 200 provinces, but now that you mention it it does seem like a lot of work to do even that. I checked and Paradox´s Europa Universalis 3 has some 742 provinces in the same area covered by the RTW map, or at least the area [COLOR="Black"]limited by the 500x500 pixel maximum size of the "map_regions" file in RTW which designates the provinces.
That would be another hardcoded limit to lift, why on earth limit the picture size to 500x500 unless you intended to LIMIT the geographical scope of the game?? So it seems CA intended to limit the game to the map of "the ancient world" or similar map in size and that´s where the limit goes overboard, alternative maps have already been created for Tolkien´s Middle Earth and other regions, so the geographical limit won´t work even then, it just limits the scope the game can cover and that´s not good. It LIMITS the POSSIBILITIESof the game, STOPS it from being ALL IT CAN BE.



If there were larger maps, like the map of the world, for example (We could very well use the province map file from EU3 as a basis, it´s a ready map, just add some details and you´re ready.), then of course the units in the game would have to have their movement points increased to allow efficient movement on the larger map and perhaps the movement points should indeed be raised, for it seems a bit unrealistic that a legion could only move a bit in northern italy in six months time (one turn) or alternatively in three months (in a modded 4 turns a year game, three months per turn), you could easily march from the southern tip of Italy to the Alps in that time and probably even back south again.



And no, the Paradox games are map based strategy games. That´s the good thing about the Total War series, there´s action involved in the real-time battles, won´t get boring.



Larger maps with more provinces would allow for more "living space" (lebensraum) for factions and even smaller factions could be brought to play as you mentioned. Remove the faction limit as well, I say, have a 100 or more factions if you like. And with more factions, any limit to how many armies or units can exist on the map should also be lifted, so there would be room for all the armies to roam around.
Also if I ruled , there would be no limit to how many units a general can have with him, so huge HORDES can be created, only limit perhaps the amount of units that can take part in a battle, so you might have to choose which units from the generals retinue you bring to the field, the rest would stay back as reserves, so with really huge armies you could have a series of battles to play all the units out. (Battle of Teutoburg forest, Initial skirmish, main battle etc.) Perhaps depending on how well you spy, you could see what units the enemy is about to bring to the field so you could choose to keep your best units in the back and wear them down with your light (and expendable ) troops



Of CA not being contacted before, I was referring to this...
"CA would not help us to fix these, and the only time they've been contacted concerning it that I'm aware of, which concerned a relatively insubstantial change to some hardcoded string, they didn't allow for it to be changed." -by Augustus Lucifer



I am aware of the "battle amount problem" with larger maps, isn´t there a system which would allow battles to be settled automatically by the AI, so the player could focus on the more important and larger battles he wishes to control (the legendary ones), not just the odd scraps over a small town? This would speed up the game somewhat.



Of the 50 or more units on the battlefield. Isn´t that possible by just altering the preferences file or something, I saw a mention in some file "unlimited men on battlefield - false", If you changed that to "true" then wouldn´t you have just as gigantic battles as you wished?
But it is true that controlling too many units would get problematic, unless you used groups and such. Perhaps the CA could be suggested to bring on a system to aid commanding, such as the one in Tom Clancy´s Endwar? Endwar has a sort of voice command system I believe, where you can control units and give them instructions by bellowing out commands to your microfone. "unit Alpha one, move to point zeta!" etc.



Some sort of WAYPOINT system could also be useful, where you could give units or unit groups long strings of movement and action instructions, which they would then do under AI control, like MOVE TO points 1, 2 and 3 and at point 3 go to SENTRY mode or defensive or ATTACK AT WILL AT POINT 3 or something...
It would also be realistic, because commanders gave their subcommanders instructions based on their battleplan in the past and the subcommanders would try to act upon them as best they could and because of the time a messenger would take to ride or run to a commander it was difficult to get commands across in the heat of battle. No instant response to commands as in the games.



Xerrop, you like the games to have historical relevance for them to be true to history?
So do I (I study history on the side at the University of Eastern Finland), historical accuracy and realism is important, but I also like to have as much possibilities as possible, unlimited if at all possible.
Why could´t there be a clash between western powers and China or Japan, if only the ships carrying troops sailed a bit further east than India, then you´d have exactly that.
And yes there were no major contacts between western powers and the Far East in the 1700´s but that changed in the 1800´s and why couldn´t it change in the game a lot earlier than 1800´s, just send your ships to China to conquer and enslave,
but beware, the muzzle loading muskets of the 1700´s don´t offer that much of an edge against even medieval weapons, they´re just too slow firing and it´d just turn into a melee with one determined charge of the lesser equipped foe, so a battle could go either way and China and Japan could begin modernizing when they realize the threat,
so they could have real chances of winning and that´s one of the key points of the TW series, I think I read it somewhere. "Whenever there were many powers competing for supremacy and all of them had the chance to be victorious" (or something like that).
Besides, one of the "open endedness" things in Paradox´s games is that history gets rewritten every time you play the game and so it does with TW games as well, nothing happens exactly as it did in the books from the time you start the game onwards. If you conquer the world with Egyptians or Greeks, that´s "alternative history" or just plain gaming, fun, and that´s good.
It shouldn´t be too slaved to history, it´s good for realism if the units and buildings are historical, they give it a realistic feel, but from a certain point onwards it should be just open ended and plain fun. Room to create the Empire you wish with the civilization (great game by the way) you choose. Be it Rome, Carthage, Greece or maybe even China, Japan or the Incas or Aztecs.



Who here would like the opportunity to play with the ancient era Chinese or Incas or Aztecs? I would, and it´d be nice to have it all on a map of the world so you COULD have those almost unthinkable battles with Chinese and Romans (Alexander the Great reached as far as Indus, only a few months of marching away from China, so it might have happened in some way. At least the news of Alexander might have reached China.)



So, I say, REMOVE ALL THE LIMITS, but keep the values as they are in the VANILLA game that most average players play, if some mod group wishes to change them, let them, make it "open ended" (like Paradox does with their games and actively supports the modding community of their games), NO HARDCODED LOCKED LIMITS, make it all changeable, except perhaps the key factors which are essential to the game engines functioning.
But all of it, time period (make it last the whole history if you WANT to that is), tech trees and amounts of techs etc., graphics (already are of course), maps, map sizes, amounts of provinces (How about 14000 provinces like in Paradox´s WW2 game Hearts of Iron 3? ), the whole economic system, costs of units and per turn costs, amounts of turns per year whether it be 2 turns (6 months) or 52 (one week) or 365 (one per day)
(Paradox´s Europa Universalis series runs from 1419-1830 with time running constantly at an alternable speed and pausable, but one day at a time and HoI 3 runs from 1936-1948 with one hour at a time, how about that?). It should ALL be moddable with no artificial limits set by the CA. The CA makes the VANILLA game (and vanilla is good no denying about that, but it´s just not enough in many cases, there could be so much more...) and after that, all the games are bound to take on a million new forms as mods come available and that´s good, EVERYONE GETS WHAT THEY WANT, new graphics, new time periods new strategic and new battle maps, EVERYTHING. MOD POWER !!



Basically, just put it ALL in text files (which are easily editable) and let the mod community make whatever they want with it using the games engine as a basis, NO HARDCODED LIMITS (Open the locks! Break the dams!) on unit or building values and such, make it ALL editable and changeable. Even the battle system could be editable, if someone wants to make aerial units in a WW1 mod or giant eagles and Nazgul in the Middle Earth mod, usable in battle as aerial units, then let them.





----------------

Haven´t the paying customers and the mod community, who are amateur game designers in their own right, deserved to have the game engine at their disposal as freely as humanly possible? YES THEY HAVE !! MOD POWER !!


----------------






All the values and scripts and stuff, ALL OF IT should be EDITABLE, to ALL, the whole community, after all, we´re trying to make the games BETTER aren´t we?
to suit everyones individual needs (if you don´t like the vanilla, load a MOD) , we´re responding to a public need, we´re doing THEIR job for them , it´s good business sense and it´s good PR to support the public and it´s good brotherhood between game designers , those who are professional (CA, Paradox etc.) and those who are amateur based (Mod communities, for all games, a lot of talent packed in there, maybe future game designers for all we know. )







...And I have an idea on how to settle the issue on those who arent´t so paying customers... (filthy thieves, they took MY PRECIOUSS, MY PRECIOUSS, Ghollum, ghollum! ) ...Have you heard how national TV programs are paid for in Finland?... ...Ok, there´s a system, that ALL Households that have a TV must pay some 200 euros a year for a TV licence (if you have more than one TV in your house that´s fine you just pay for one TV licence, that covers it for your household). ...Now how about adding perhaps some 10 euros in europe the similar amount in US etc. (a little more than 10 $), to the monthly Internet fee, I think I could handle a 10e increase, the less the better of course.
In a year that 10e would become 120e for a single user and how many internet users are there in Europe? Millions easily, tens of millions, a hundred million? So, when multiplied, it will easily become Billions of euros per year ! (that´s a lot indeed!) and those billions could then be distributed in some sort of way to pay for damages caused by Bittorrent and other data sharing systems. In 10 years, how many billions could be distributed to movie companies and games companies and Microsoft ? Who knows, but the different companies would get their money and everyone would be happy, except the user who has to pay, who gets robbed of his/her hard earned cash, but who downloads wares like no tomorrow over the high bandwith internet connection. Maybe there could be a balance found there somewhere. Of course All the countries would have to agree to such a settlement issue, that includes the US, Japan, the EU and all the rebel European states that don´t yet belong to the happy family , Russia, China, South America, Australia etc., all the major internet using countries.



There´s my idea on paying up for Bittorrent and all the juicy stuff that you get from there and it might only cost a few bucks per user if all the world was included.



But mainly, what I´ve been saying is... Give the games more freely to the mod community to be made BETTER! REMOVE ALL THE LIMITS! Maybe modding can even bring back life and vitality for old games and stop them from going to the trashheap of history and "abandonware" and oblivion.




-Cheers! ...and please add a Finnish flag to those flag waving smileys.

[Praefectus praetorio]

Of the 50 or more units on the battlefield. Isn´t that possible by just altering the preferences file or something, I saw a mention in some file "unlimited men on battlefield - false", If you changed that to "true" then wouldn´t you have just as gigantic battles as you wished?

Yes but you still can only control 20 units. The rest are controlled by AI.

You have good ideas but I really doubt that CA releases a patch or something for their older games.

Btw, Im Finnish too.

[Hader]

While I like your enthusiasm for this, I'm afraid that no matter what is done now, nothing will happen. We could ask CA for many things, especially for RTW, but they wouldn't mind to pay attention to such pleas for one of their older games. Plus, breaking hardcoded limits is still not supposed to be done, for reasons stated above...and really, I don't see a need to, RTW mods have already outdone themselves with those restrictions in place anyways. While it would be great to modify the games number of factions, provinces, etc., what will that really do? Add more to a game with mods that already have plenty of additions. It's fun enough with what mods offer now, I say. No need to just make more towns for me to conquer or make battles so big they push the limits of my PC's capabilities.

Not to mention, any modding and/or distributing you do to the .exe is, well, illegal, and in some cases a very negative thing to do on TWC.

Now I forgot what point I was trying to make
....but to sum it up- just not gonna happen, unfortunately.

[Jopo_80]

Yes, I know about the EULA (what is it anyway?). The EU part would suggest it´s some sort of a European agreement.

On legal issues... Basically, how I see it, is that if you buy something, let´s say a drill (I gave this example elsewhere), do ONLY buy a PERMISSION to use the drill, or can you take it apart and modify the engine inside, say Crank (good movie) up the RPM´s, LEGALLY? I think you can, it´s just that the original manufacturer doesn´t answer to any malfunctions you might encounter by doing so.

Can you take the drill you bought apart and modify the stuff inside LEGALLY? Or do you just pay good money for JUST a PERMISSION to use it ??!!

If I buy a game, then the way I see it, I OWN THAT COPY of the product, the game and ALL that´s in it, ALL THE FILES and I can do WHATEVER I WANT WITH IT, DELETE IT, MODIFY IT, DRAW THE PICTURES ANEW, EVERYTHING.


If I modified the .exe or wrote a script hacking the hardcodes open and made an UNOFFICIAL patch (Which I can´t I don´t have the skill, maybe somebody else does, that´s why the thread was started.), with NO GUARANTEES of workability and NO OWNERSHIP CLAIMED AS TO THE ORIGINAL and Shared it openly (does share mean distribute? or does distribute mean sell?) WITH NO INTENT ON MAKING ANY MONEY WITH IT, COULD I NOT DO IT ??

IF I MODIFY A DRILL AND GIVE IT FREE TO A NEIGHBOUR (with a warning that it´s modified), AM I COMMITTING A VIOLATION OF THE ELECTRIC DRILLS ACT ??

IF I BUY AN E-BOOK, CAN I MODIFY IT LEGALLY, CAN I WRITE NEW PASSAGES INTO IT OR REMOVE STUFF FROM IT ?? OF COURSE I CAN, I OWN THE COPY AND I CAN GIVE THE MODIFICATION PARTS TO OTHERS ASWELL, SO THEY CAN ADD IT TO THEIR COPIES. (that´s mods)
OR IS IT SO THAT I CAN EDIT THE TEXT, BUT NOT THE COVERS ??

BASICALLY, WHAT MAKES THE .exe SUCH A SACRED GROUND AS TO EDITING ??

ISN`T IT MORE CORRECT THAT I CAN EDIT THE STUFF ALL I WANT, BUT NOT DISTRIBUTE IT ??

I SAY, WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO MODIFY THE GAME AS MUCH AS WE WANT !!

IF YOU HAVE A LEGAL TEXT THAT SAYS OTHERWISE, I´D LIKE TO SEE IT !!

WHERE DOES IT SAY, THAT THE ORIGINAL DESIGNER DECIDES ON HOW MUCH THE PRODUCT SHOULD BE EDITED OR MODIFIED ??
!! THE GAME IS A PRODUCT !!
YOU BOUGHT A COPY, YOU OWN THE COPY AND IT`S YOURS TO DO WHATEVER THE H..L YOU WANT WITH IT !!


SHOW ME OTHERWISE !!

-CHEERS FROM FINLAND, EU !!

ADDED...

WHY HAVE RESTRICTIONS IN THE GAME IN THE FIRST PLACE ?? I SAY REMOVE THEM ALL !!

Code the game so openly that EVERYONE can edit them as much as they want, even the game engine as largely as possible.
Make ALL the definitions for commands, features etc. ALL of it open by placing it in text files, easily readable and easily moddable.
Just make the executable a "starter" file which knows what folders to read and such. Put EVERYTHING ELSE in text files open to all.

ABSOLUTELY NO LIMITS AND NO RESTRICTIONS OF ANY SORT AS TO EDITING !!

THERE´S ABSOLUTELY NO REASON TO HAVE ANY OF THEM THERE OR IS THERE ??

DIDN`T THINK SO, IT`S JUST A WAY OF SPITING THE COMMUNITY METHINKS !! ...or do you (any of you) see any reasonable reason for having them there?

PROOF POSITIVE THAT THEY DON`T LIKE MODDERS AT CA !! CREATIVE ENVY PERHAPS !!??

After all, it´s been proven by magazine reviews and all, that the modding community is COMPLETELY on par with the "professionals" of CA

"Europa Barbarorum is almost a game of its own." (or something like that)
Good enough to be a game of it´s own? How much more praise do you need from the gaming press to place the entire mod community on par and equal to the crew at CA ??

Besides, I hear they don´t listen to the community in any way at CA ?? More proof of their non-positive attitude towards the most avid and active section of their fanbase, the modding community.

Bad BUSINESS sense, Bad for making games (at least good ones), Bad PR, Bad younameit.

Their competitors, like the Swedish Paradox Interactive, have a good and constructive relationship with their fanbase and mod community. The people at CA really need to learn from the competition in this matter.

Maybe someone should write a little to the gaming press about their foul attitude ?? Just ask some tough questions... Are they IGNORING their fans?? THEIR IDEAS AND FEEDBACK !? Are they REFUSING CUSTOMER SUPPORT for which people pay for ??

I´m not breaking any forum rules by badmouthing CA on their own forum am I ?

-Cheers !

[Hader]

IF I MODIFY A DRILL AND GIVE IT FREE TO A NEIGHBOUR (with a warning that it´s modified), AM I COMMITTING A VIOLATION OF THE ELECTRIC DRILLS ACT ??

IF I BUY AN E-BOOK, CAN I MODIFY IT LEGALLY, CAN I WRITE NEW PASSAGES INTO IT OR REMOVE STUFF FROM IT ?? OF COURSE I CAN, I OWN THE COPY AND I CAN GIVE THE MODIFICATION PARTS TO OTHERS ASWELL, SO THEY CAN ADD IT TO THEIR COPIES. (that´s mods)
OR IS IT SO THAT I CAN EDIT THE TEXT, BUT NOT THE COVERS ??

Your use of irrelevant examples such as this do no justice to the argument you are trying to make. I hope I don't need to explain the obvious differences between books, drills and video games.

BASICALLY, WHAT MAKES THE .exe SUCH A SACRED GROUND AS TO EDITING ??

Technically, you can modify it if you want. Distribution of a modified .exe is where the issue lies. You agreed to certain terms when you purchased and installed this game. Don't tell me you don't read the fine print?

ISN`T IT MORE CORRECT THAT I CAN EDIT THE STUFF ALL I WANT, BUT NOT DISTRIBUTE IT ??

I SAY, WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO MODIFY THE GAME AS MUCH AS WE WANT !!

You're catching on. But also pointing out the obvious, which you may not seem to realize as the obvious...

WHY HAVE RESTRICTIONS IN THE GAME IN THE FIRST PLACE ??

Cause they can. And I'm sure there are plenty of reasons behind it. Artist's rights and such. To generalize it.

Their competitors, like the Swedish Paradox Interactive, have a good and constructive relationship with their fanbase and mod community. The people at CA really need to learn from the competition in this matter.

Debatable, though I would agree from a general standpoint. If CA took a much more involving approach to the modding community here, things would probably be a little better in terms of just relations and overall modding prestige, I guess you could say.

I´m not breaking any forum rules by badmouthing CA on their own forum am I ?

This isn't their forum. But we have rules on CA bashing, as readers of the fine print would know.





Some constructive criticism: Your use of CAPS LOCK AND BOLDED RED TEXT doesn't really help your argument.

[Jopo_80]

I use the BOLDED text and CAPITAL letters and all other HIGHLIGHTING tools to make my point, STRONGLY, to highlight the key parts I wish for others to pay attention to, don´t tell me everyone reads the whole long text completely and perfectly... ...mostly they just quickly browse through it like a newspaper and might miss some of the points if they were not highlighted.

-I´ll answer more points when I edit my post, now I gotta go.

[Hader]

I use the BOLDED text and CAPITAL letters and all other HIGHLIGHTING tools to make my point, STRONGLY, to highlight the key parts I wish for others to pay attention to, don´t tell me everyone reads the whole long text completely and perfectly... ...mostly they just quickly browse through it like a newspaper and might miss some of the points if they were not highlighted.

-I´ll answer more points when I edit my post, now I gotta go.

Maybe some people are like that. But when your post 90% caps and bolded text...

[/offtopic]

[Dimitris Rossos]

The main reasons CA is being obstinate about modding their newest title is I think the restrictions SEGA put on them. They are extremely concerned about instant profit. They seem to think that allowing players to create a better product than they originally made (or, say rather, an improved product), takes away from them somehow (as in, what if they create, say WW1 TW mod and that turns out to be a success and we won't be able to create that one anymore and get money for it yadda yadda yadda). They seem not to grasp the idea that allowing extended modding of their games will give them much more profit in the end, because more and more people will be buying their games in order to be able to play the mods. They don't seem to understand that the players still have to use their engine to play it! Oh well. Stupidity seems to pervade the business circles these days. Quality gives way to quantity, just as in about everything else.

[Killerbee]

What I'm wondering is, that mods would give so much more money, and it actually would. The biggest example is, ofcourse, Counterstrike. Counterstrike is a mod for Half-Life . It's WAY more popular than the original game, and has sold over millions of boxes. I guess at leats some of the profits go to the developers of the original game, right ?

[magpie]

Just a thought members, Maybe they do not release mod tools, Because they have not got a clue on how to make them. All the years they have been releasing the games, Their graphic,s have leaped ahead in quality, but their basic game has hardly changed at all. What with a small dev team working on code, The odd one doing a runner, Its probably too much for them, Now where is that fag packet I wrote that script on! goodluck all.