Crossbows and Armor Piercing

[sbroadbent]

Crossbows have the Armor Piercing/Effective against Armor quality, which we'd normally apply to their missile attacks, but would the AP also apply to their melee attacks?

Over on another message board a user complained that his general got his butt kicked by a squad of rebel crossbows, so I'm curious if this might've been the case.

[Caesar Clivus]

No unless they have a secondary weapon with the AP attribute. Primary and secondary weapons are totally separate. The attributes of one dont affect the other.

[Gogolometro]

Ussual crossbows have peasent one daggersand pro's have swords. So only in missle atack they have AP. Dunno if some turkish or lituanian dont have some axes, but I dont think so. The only missle atack units with AP melee weapons are the english and norse if I am right.

[JorisofHolland]

Hussites wield maces/axes IIRC, but I'm not sure.

[Saint_of_Battle]

I think Strelczy rape in meelee since they have axes as a sidearm. Dunno mate, if it doesn't say in the description its not nessecary that it doesn't excist. Rus general bodyguards are cavalry/enemy bodyguards killers because they have maces in meelee, but it doesn't say a thing about armour effective..

[Caesar Clivus]

I think Strelczy rape in meelee since they have axes as a sidearm. Dunno mate, if it doesn't say in the description its not nessecary that it doesn't excist. Rus general bodyguards are cavalry/enemy bodyguards killers because they have maces in meelee, but it doesn't say a thing about armour effective..

When a unit has an AP weapon as their secondary weapon, I dont think the unit card will show effective against armour.

[meese]

You're correct in your thinking.

[Ichon]

In the right situation a unit of crossbow can really tear thru some generals body guards... if the bodyguard wasn't that large and was charging uphill and didn't get a clean hit(full contact along the line of crossbows) then even without melee the crossbows might have take a big chunk out of the bodyguard. If the bodyguard is then turned around to do a 2nd charge it could be annihilated or the generals killed which is the same thing basically in a battle fighting rebels. If it was 23 man bodyguard and lost 6 men in the charge up the hill and 1 or 2 men in contact it is suddenly down to 15 men and if turned with backs to the crossbows it could lost another 8-9 men really fast.

Crossbows are not weak units which I think many people assume. They are just very specialized. If a situation arises which plays to their specialty then they can seem unfairly powerful.

[JorisofHolland]

They should be unfairly powerfull. A crossbow is able to pierce even the best armour. Early game they are weak (except against bodyguards, as you said) but they get more powerfull as the heavier armoured (and thus also slower) units enter the battlefield. In RR/RC I often decimate enemy knights before they reach my lines. If I have 2-3 units of Peasant Crossbowmen firing at one band of knights, the knights easily loose 80 % of their men before charging. And then my halberds/spears catch them, of course

[bɑne]

If I have 2-3 units of Peasant Crossbowmen firing at one band of knights, the knights easily loose 80 % of their men before charging.

Comes as no surprise that the crossbow got outlawed pretty fast...

[JorisofHolland]

And still were used by everyone against everyone.

[Kawee]

Hmm...aren't peasant xbows suppose to be the lighter version? That kind of xbows should really struggle to pierce the better armour at anything but point black range.

The heavier xbows however, is a whole different ball game.

[Gogolometro]

Easy, peasent crossbows with their 6 damage by missle is increased versus armored units. So if we have early campaign, like me in RR-RC, and I need to face general/s and mailed or even rebel feudal knights I have only 2 options, peasent xbows and some maces mercenary. The spears will be the butter what will melt on horsed guys, xbows in range and macemans in melee will cut them in pieces. I do this all time and is the best, cheapest way to kill armored units. No need to tell you what happend when I play like venetian versus the nice horseof byzantine empire.

[Souka]

Gogolometro crossbowmen do not have ap in RR/RC

[Kawee]

Exactly. That's what's so good about RR/RC, weapons do appropriate damage. They do better against light armoured units, but not overly well against plate armour units.

[Gogolometro]

My bad. Still work fine.