EB: Which of it is copyrighted?

[Argeus the Paladin]

Theoretically, EB is a mod and thus isn't exactly copyrighted. Please correct me if this is wrong, though.

The point is, if someone is going to create a historical novel of sort and feature the name of some of the EB units (historical ones, like Phalangitai, Gaesatae, Agema or Argyraipidai), would that count as plagiarism in any sense?

Before I embark on my grand (commercially aimed) novel, I'd like to ask this question, since I intend to introduce something named Hasukaru Phalangitai/Hetairoi/Argyraspidai in this work.

Thanks for your concern.

[XSamatan]

1. EB is to 100% copyrighted. It is work done by the team, so all rights stay with the team. Just because you don't have to pay for it, doesn't mean it is legal to copy it.

If you want to use parts of this mod, you must ask the development team before using it, for example by PM one of the team members. Try to give exact details of which parts you want to use for your own work. The Team will hear your request and decide it.

XSamatan

PS: If you want, PM me your request and I hand it over to the other members

[torongill]

Methinks he wants to use the names only, since I doubt very much the stats of the Gaesatae and the EB script belong in a historical novel.

Still, EB is copyrighted, because it represents original work. That said, I doubt that the producers of EB or RTW hold copyright properties on the names of historical units. Thus for example in my view the name "Gaesatae" or "Hetairoi" is copyrights-free. But the EB stats and models and all the other stuff created by the EB team are copyrighted and you cannot use them without permission. With all that in mind, I seriously doubt that the EB team will refuse you usage of the names of even the most exotic units, but you have to ask for permission first.

I'll add a suggestion. Even if you receive the team's blessing, translate the names in English(or in whatever language you intend to write), because readers get midly upset if they have to flip through pages to use the dictionary every few words. Plus the translation gives you more speech flexibility(which I'm sure you already know )

[Dargaron]

I think the Greeks and Macedonians would posthumously sue the EB team if they tried to copyright Phalangitai or Argyraspidai. Or would it be Trademarking?

[Argeus the Paladin]

Yes, the last two posters got it right. The names only, as well as the historical information of, for example, what an Argy is supposed to be like.

[Ludens]

Yes, the last two posters got it right. The names only, as well as the historical information of, for example, what an Argy is supposed to be like.

The skins were created from the ground up as well (i.e. they are not modified CA files), so AFAIK this means they are copyrighted too.

[Mediteran]

the names arent anyones property man, they arent EB units, there were real life units. so you can use the names. but for anything else, you'd have to ask permision

[Ludens]

the names arent anyones property man, they arent EB units, there were real life units. so you can use the names. but for anything else, you'd have to ask permision

Except that the names of many non-Roman and Hellenic units are conceptual.

[Mediteran]

Except that the names of many non-Roman and Hellenic units are conceptual.

i don't know what you mean by conceptual.. but still, they are free to use i would say. its just "spearmen" in another language right?

[XSamatan]

If you want to use just the names for writing, IMHO there is no reason to don't do that. I asked because your first post was unclear to me.
If you however want to use exact copies of text provided in the mod, then you should ask before doing that.

XSamatan

[Argeus the Paladin]

... Could you clarify "Conceptual" for me?

Thanks in advance?

[XSamatan]

Many names for troops outside the Roman/Hellenic world are reconstructions by the team, so I would say these are creations by/from the team and thus are copyrighted.

I suggest you make a list of things you want to use and PM either k_raso, Foot or Marcus Aurelius Antonius.

XSamatan

[Mediolanicus]

Every creation that's original and is the result of a creative human imput is copy-righted.

Original doesn't mean that the idea is original, but only the concrete form of the idea. E.g.: a spearmen unit is not an original idea, but the concrete EB-skin is an original idea.
Strictly speaking the creator of the skin has the copy rights and not the EB team, unless the rights have been transferred to the EB team.
(BTW, this is not the case with the EB code - like the script - which is also copy righted, but where the rights do belong to the EB-team, instead of the individual who wrote it.)

Following this reasoning you could argue that some of the more conceptual names, could be copy righted. "Spearmen" in another language is certainly not copy righted, but if you try to recreate a word in proto-Germanic for example, you better ask permission. Just to be on the save side.

[Ludens]

Strictly speaking the creator of the skin has the copy rights and not the EB team, unless the rights have been transferred to the EB team.
(BTW, this is not the case with the EB code - like the script - which is also copy righted, but where the rights do belong to the EB-team, instead of the individual who wrote it.)

You are right about everything, but two nitpicks:
1) To my knowledge every person that has contributed to EB has agreed that the copyright is, at least partially, transferred to EB. EB will ask the original skinner's permission before lending a skin to another modification, but the copyright is theirs.
2) EB's "code" is created from CA's files, so I am not sure these would fall under EB's copyright.

[Mediolanicus]

My first post here, sorry for my english, I'm not a native speaker...

It's also a matter of country law, copyright is not the same in the US and in Germany and I doubt it's the same in the Netherlands and in Great Britain. So it depends on the actual copyright law, you've to observe. But I doubt that there will be much of a problem if you just ask concretly as XSamatan suggested.

The main points of copyrights are remarkably similar. Which is logical because of all the international contacts.
Apart from that you do have the reciprocity rule (I give protection to creations which are under your copyright if you do the same for our creations) and IIRC the Bern Convention on this subject of which USA, D, NL and UK are all contracting parties.

And welcome. Don't worry, there are many non-English speakers here. You recognize them by their English with the occasional mistake. The native speakers write either perfectly or, oddly enough, worse...

You are right about everything, but two nitpicks:
1) To my knowledge every person that has contributed to EB has agreed that the copyright is, at least partially, transferred to EB. EB will ask the original skinner's permission before lending a skin to another modification, but the copyright is theirs.
2) EB's "code" is created from CA's files, so I am not sure these would fall under EB's copyright.

1) Yeah, thought so.
2) Both actually, if I may unnecessarily nitpick back . EB modified the code with CA's consent. This means that both the original work and the original adaption are copyrighted. CA gave its consent to everyone to modify everything that's not hard coded, so in this case you would have to ask the EB persmission if you'd want to use for example the EBBS or exactly the same EDU as EB.

[Ludens]

Apart from that you do have the reciprocity rule (I give protection to creations which are under your copyright if you do the same for our creations) and IIRC the Bern Convention on this subject of which USA, D, NL and UK are all contracting parties.

Trying to sell R:TW in Brazil with the argument that the copyright holders are English and American is not going to work. All countries that have signed the Bern convention allow prosecution by copyright-holders from the other signing countries.

2) Both actually, if I may unnecessarily nitpick back . EB modified the code with CA's consent. This means that both the original work and the original adaption are copyrighted. CA gave its consent to everyone to modify everything that's not hard coded, so in this case you would have to ask the EB persmission if you'd want to use for example the EBBS or exactly the same EDU as EB.

Has CA given official consent to EB's project? I guess you could argue that they did, on the basis that they are aware of and have actively encouraged modding (which is technically a violation of copyright, although it is in no-one's interest to prosecute), but I am not sure if this is, legally, the same as sharing the copyright. Especially R:TW's copyright is at least partially owned by SEGA.

Edit: or was it Activision? What happened to the rights when SEGA took over?

[Kival]

The main points of copyrights are remarkably similar. Which is logical because of all the international contacts.
Apart from that you do have the reciprocity rule (I give protection to creations which are under your copyright if you do the same for our creations) and IIRC the Bern Convention on this subject of which USA, D, NL and UK are all contracting parties.

USA, D, NL and UK were only excamples. And I know about the Bern Convention but as far as I know it does not ensure the same rights for the works in every land. It did only ensure that every work in e.g. UK would be protected by german copyright law in Germany. Earlier it does not exist any copyright for it in other countries than that of the creator. (Anyway the US had some problems to accept this Convention...)

It was the universal copyright convention in 1952 which somewhat tried to give the work the copyright of its "homecountry" in all other countries but as far as I know some protections in the US are not relevant in Germany, e.g. a concern can not have any copyright in germany only the creator himfself. Also the UCC was not a law in itself.

And welcome. Don't worry, there are many non-English speakers here. You recognize them by their English with the occasional mistake. The native speakers write either perfectly or, oddly enough, worse...

Thanks for your welcome. Some English practice will not hurt.

[Kival]

My first post here, sorry for my english, I'm not a native speaker...

It's also a matter of country law, copyright is not the same in the US and in Germany and I doubt it's the same in the Netherlands and in Great Britain. So it depends on the actual copyright law, you've to observe. But I doubt that there will be much of a problem if you just ask concretly as XSamatan suggested.

[TOLAROscipii]

I believe none of EB's work to be copyrighted
I care less what anyone thinks of that

[Mediolanicus]

The US has a problem accepting many, if not all, conventions...

I think CA/Sega/Activision gave silent consent by allowing and certainly by encouraging the mod community.

But enough about the technicalities about copyrights now :p


Meh, maybe just one thing... TOLAROscipii, you do now that what you just wrote down is copyrighted too, you know?
Just like everything else you write down.
Although here, since you're writing under a pseudonym, I think the rights are supposed to belong to the publisher - here the forums.

But here Kival is right. I don't know whether this rule is true in the US, where the serves of this forum are most likely situated.