I want to debate US Government's Goldman Sachs and possibly condem or pardon him/her (GS is now a person, lol)

[Kjertesvein]

I'm clearly not a finance guy, but just trying to dip my head into the sea to get an idea of what others think....

It seems to me as if Goldman Sachs is running (much of ) the US government's financial institution. Former heads are running back and forth between government positions. They are buying up Senate and are on most financial commities. They recive financial "socialist" backing, directly or indirectly. Basically, it's one huge mess which I would not accpt if I were convervative nor progressive in US.

If your american, (we can debate how your government is medling in the private market anyday and I would most likly agree to more then you think, but) what do you think about big banks medling in government? and Second, regardless government instruments into the private sector, ss it morally ok to cross camps between private sector and public sector?

If your an Australian, Canadian, European, Latin American, Asian, etc. what do you think about Goldman Sachs, it's involvment in southern Europe and it's inpact on finance in general?

Me, personally am very sceptic about Goldmen Sachs. I recently learned that they have an advisory position in our Norwegian Forign Pensian Fond which has about 60% in shares and owns about 1% of the European market, iirc. We can rescue the entier Greece financial disaster if we wanted to, just to give a size of sceptisism which are involved. In the end, I understand the position of expertice, but also it comes with it financial motive if I mirror recent disaster happenings in southern Europe.


Just making some clearity

[xcorps]

Here's something for you.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Dianna Farrell:

Obama Administration: Deputy Director, National Economic Council
Former Goldman Sachs Title: Financial Analyst

Stephen Friedman:

Obama Administration: Chairman, President’s Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board
Former Goldman Sachs Title: Board Member (Chairman, 1990-94; Director, 2005-)

Gary Gensler:

Obama Administration: Commissioner, Commodity Futures Trading Commission
Former Goldman Sachs Title: Partner and Co-head of Finance

Robert Hormats:

Obama Administration: Undersecretary for Economic, Energy and Agricultural Affairs, State Department
Former Goldman Sachs Title: Vice Chairman, Goldman Sachs Group

Philip Murphy:

Obama Administration: Ambassador to Germany
Former Goldman Sachs Title: Head of Goldman Sachs, Frankfurt

Mark Patterson:

Obama Administration: Chief of Staff to Treasury Secretary, Timothy Geitner
Former Goldman Sachs Title: Lobbyist 2005-2008; Vice President for Government Relations

John Thain:

Obama Administration: Advisor to Treasury Secretary, Timothy Geitner
Former Goldman Sachs Title: President and Chief Operating Officer (1999-2003)

Henry Paulson:

Bush II Administration: Secretary, Treasury 2006 - 2009
Former Goldman Sachs Title: Chairman and CEO (1998-2006)

Neel Kashkari:

Bush II Administration: Assistant Secretary for Financial Stability, Treasury (2008 – 2009)
Former Goldman Sachs Title: Vice President, San Francisco; led Information Technology Security Investment Banking Practice

Reuben Jeffery III:

Bush II Administration: Undersecretary for Economic, Energy and Agricultural Affairs, State Department (2007 –2009)
Former Goldman Sachs Title: Managing Partner Paris until 2002 Security Investment Banking Practice

Robert Steel:

Bush II Administration: Under Secretary for Domestic Finance, Treasury, (2006 – 2008)
Former Goldman Sachs Title: Vice Chairman – 2004

Steve Shafran:

Bush II Administration: Advisor on setting up TARP to Treasury Secretary, Henry Paulson 2008
Former Goldman Sachs Title: Private equity business in Asia until 2000

Edward C. Forst:

Bush II Administration: Advisor on setting up TARP to Treasury Secretary, Henry Paulson 2008
Former Goldman Sachs Title: Co-head of Goldman’s investment management business

Dan Jester:

Bush II Administration: Advisor on setting up TARP to Treasury Secretary, Henry Paulson 2008
Former Goldman Sachs Title: Deputy CFO

Kendrick R. Wilson III:

Bush II Administration: Advisor on setting up TARP to Treasury Secretary, Henry Paulson 2008
Former Goldman Sachs Title: Chairman of Goldman’s financial institutions groups

Joshua Bolten:

Bush II Administration: White House Chief of Staff (2006 – 2009)
Former Goldman Sachs Title: Executive Director, Legal & Government Affairs (1994-99)

Gary Gensler:

Bush II Administration: Undersecretary, Treasury (1999-2001) and Assistant Secretary, Treasury (1997-1999)
Former Goldman Sachs Title: Partner and Co-head of Finance

Robert Rubin:

Bush II Administration: Secretary, Treasury 1995-1999
Former Goldman Sachs Title: Vice Chairman (1987-90)

Robert Zoellick:

Bush II Administration: United States Trade Representative (2001-2005), Deputy Secretary of State (2005-2006), World Bank President (2007 -)
Former Goldman Sachs Title: Vice Chairman, International (2006-07)

William C Dudley:

NY Federal Reserve: Current President/CEO
Former Goldman Sachs Title: Partner and managing director – 2007

Stephen Friedman:

NY Federal Reserve: Former Chairman of the Board – 2009
Former Goldman Sachs Title: Board Member (Chairman, 1990-94; Director, 2005-)

Other Noteworthy Appointees:
Edward Liddy:

Current Title: AIG CEO
Former Goldman Sachs Title: Board Member (Chairman, 1990-94; Director, 2005-)

Duncan Niederauer:

Current Title: Chair/CEO NYSE
Former Goldman Sachs Title: Managing Director – 2007

Malcolm Turnbull:

Current Title: Federal Leader, Liberal Party, Australia
Former Goldman Sachs Title: Partner (1998-2001)

Mark Carney:

Current Title: Governor, Bank of Canada
Former Goldman Sachs Title: Managing Director Goldman Sachs Canada until 2003

David Watson:

Current Title: Monetary Policy Committee, Bank of England
Former Goldman Sachs Title: Chief European economist

Romano Prodi:

Current Title: Prime Minister of Italy (1996-1998 and 2006-2008) and President of the European Commission (1999-2004)
Former Goldman Sachs Title: Paid adviser/consultant 1990 – 1993

Mario Draghi:

Current Title: Governor of the Bank of Italy (2006- )
Former Goldman Sachs Title: European Deputy Chairman/Partner until 2006

Massimo Tononi:

Current Title: Italian Deputy Treasury Chief (2006-2008)
Former Goldman Sachs Title: Partner 2004 - 2006

[Kjertesvein]

Thanks. Now I'm not sceptic at all. Link?

[xcorps]

Thanks. Now I'm not sceptic at all. Link?

Oops, sorry about that. It appear my editing deleted the link. I'll have to find it again. BRB

http://the-classic-liberal.com/white...n-sachs-house/

[Kjertesvein]

Oops, sorry about that. It appear my editing deleted the link. I'll have to find it again. BRB

http://the-classic-liberal.com/white...n-sachs-house/

Thanx, btw, nice article:

Goldman Sachs’ White House ties run deep


While Goldman Sachs‘ managing partners prepare their lists for Fifth Avenue shopping sprees on bonus day, the firm’s public relations department is grappling with an image problem that has some staying power. Goldman’s record profiteering at a time of chronic unemployment and systemic crisis along with Matt Taibbi’s superb article on Goldman’s role in market manipulation and the high-profile arrest of former Goldman programmer Sergey Aleynikov, who allegedly downloaded Goldman code that can be used to manipulate markets (who knew?), have conspired to create a perfect storm of populist backlash directed at the firm.


Kevin’s excellentposts on Goldmanite-turned-Obama designee Bob Hormats, who helped to enrich the genocidal regime in Sudan, caused me to wonder how many Goldman alumni occupy positions of power in the administration. In recent months, we’ve highlighted the astonishing White House influence exercised by his eminence Robert Rubin, former Goldman chairman and key architect of our ill-fated financialized economy. Rubin’s protege include Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner, NEC Director Larry Summers, Michael Froman, Jason Furman and Assistant Treasury Secretary Michael Brill. Furman, OMB Director Peter Orszag and Undersecretary of the Treasury for International Affairs-designate Lael Brainard were all closely associated with Rubin’s think tank, the Hamilton Project, housed at the Brookings Institute.

But Goldman’s influence in the White House is not limited to the Rubin network. In addition to Hormats, at least five Goldman alumni hold high-level positions in the administration. Mark Patterson, whose appointment as Chief of Staff at Treasury highlighted Obama’s willingness to make arbitrary exceptions to his new ethics policies, was Goldman’s chief D.C. lobbyist. Diana Farrell, Deputy Director of the National Economic Council, worked at Goldman for several years in the late 1980s. Philip Murphy, recently nominated to be ambassador to Germany, spent 23 years at Goldman, rising to the position of senior director.

More than six months into the new administration, two Bush holdovers with Goldman ties have managed to hold on to influential positions at Treasury. Former Goldman VP Neel Kashkari, Henry Paulson’s ballyhooed choice to hand out TARP funds, continues to administer the program as Assistant Secretary of the Treasury for Financial Stability.

One of the more alarming of the Goldman-turned-regulators is Karthik Ramanathan, who traded derivatives in Goldman’s London and New York offices prior to this appointment as Assistant Secretary for Financial Markets by Bush. He now serves in the same role as an interim capacity. However cliched it may be to say that Ramanathan, a derivatives trader on hiatus charged with reforming the obscure and dysfunctional derivatives market, is a fox guarding the hen house, it is also an apt metaphor for his presence at Treasury, and one that helps to explain the broader phenomenon of how Wall Street has so far managed to avoid the reckoning coming to it.

[Problem Sleuth]

Oops, sorry about that. It appear my editing deleted the link. I'll have to find it again. BRB

http://the-classic-liberal.com/white...n-sachs-house/

You should really be more skeptical about your source material. I have no doubt the links exist, but so easily trusting a source that openly admits a conservative bias really isn't much better than, say, asking Barack Obama about his opinion on the subject and hailing it as the pure, untouched truth.

[xcorps]

You should really be more skeptical about your source material. I have no doubt the links exist, but so easily trusting a source that openly admits a conservative bias really isn't much better than, say, asking Barack Obama about his opinion on the subject and hailing it as the pure, untouched truth.

Facts are facts. Data are Data.

Is person X a former employee of goldman sachs? yes
Is person X now a member of government? yes

There's no spin or bias in the information I posted. It simply is. If I were posting an analysis of data, then I would tend to agree with you. (But then again, it wouldn't matter much to me, because I look at everything with a conservative bias.)

[Denny Crane!]

Well the government deparments are going to be pretty huge so it isn't unusual for bank employees to migrate over but I'm always suspicious considering they received vast sums of money.

[motiv-8]

Well, currently Goldman Sachs is under investigation for a role it might have played in contributing to the economic collapse in Greece which threatens the stability of the Euro .
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...reek-debt.html

[Darth Red]

I am glad to see Goldman Sachs being investigated, but call me cynical because I don't think anything would come of it. I look at it this way, Goldman Sachs in an investment firm, the kind that takes risks, the problem is when those sub prime high risk morgage investments collapsed the people in government with ties to GS gave the company that insured it's risks taxpayer bailout money to recover thier losses. Goldman Sachs Wins Big In Secret Bailout Via AIG Not just them either but all of the banks involved. I don't trust people in government telling me that the taxpayer needed to bail out thier company for thier mistakes. I am trying to search for some data involving GS investments and purchases since the finacial collapse, I shall return if I find anything...

[Exarch]

excellent thread and an issue which MUST be addressed by the American People.

How can they prostitute themselves like this?

[xcorps]

Politics-The worlds second oldest profession.

Ronald Reagan

[Sphere]

It needs to be remembered that Goldman Sachs is considered to have the best financial minds in the world. And indeed they have done quite well in this crisis, mainly because they foresaw it and successfully hedged against it.

So it is not shocking or even corrupt that administrations want that level of talent and expertise in their cabinet. If you are any good at finance and banking, you do not go into the public sector so its not like their is a vast pool of public servants to draw upon like in the military or judiciary.

That being said, there is definitely the risk of corruption by proximity. Not that money is going to change hands, but that there will develop unintentional bias in policy and a lack of perspective. For example, it is rumored that Paulson let Lehman Bros. collapse because he had personal animosity towards its CEO as they were competitors when Paulson ran GS. Another risk is that drawing from the Wall Street talent pool means that that culture can seep into what is and what isn't accceptable.

[Exarch]

it's called CORRUPTION
especially if civil servants are supposed to seve the STATE AND THE PEOPLE FIRST

[Denny Crane!]

it's called CORRUPTION
especially if civil servants are supposed to seve the STATE AND THE PEOPLE FIRST

What fantasy book is that from.

[Exarch]

What fantasy book is that from.

that book of fairy tales, my teachers and media kept telling me how lucky i was to live in a western liberal democracy

[justicar5]

that book of fairy tales, my teachers and media kept telling me how lucky i was to live in a western liberal democracy

yea I know that one well, the first time a corrupt politician or CEO is charged with treason is the first time I will believe it. (BTW I live in the UK so thats not a death sentence)

[xcorps]

http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/summ...?id=D000000085

Some more interesting information.

Goldman Sachs is 5th on the Top 100 list of contributors to incumbents since 1989.

[Dr. Oza]

well u can thank the supreme court for this but goldman sachs is gonna control more than just the treasury form now on...

when i was younger, i didn't realize why andrew jackson closed the us bank.. but now i do.. and while Goldman Sachs is merely a successful business , the amount of lobbying power they have is frightening

[Darth Red]

I think this is an appropriate bump.

SEC accuses Goldman Sachs of civil fraud

Feds charge Goldman Sachs

The Goldman client implicated in the fraud is one of the world’s largest hedge funds, Paulson & Co. The SEC said it paid Goldman roughly $15 million in 2007 to put together an investment offering that was tied to mortgage-related securities the hedge fund viewed as likely to decline in value.

Separately, Paulson took out a form of insurance that allowed it to make a huge profit when those securities became nearly worthless.

The SEC said that hedge fund giant Paulson & Co. worked with Goldman Sachs to create a risky mortgage-securities portfolio that Paulson then bet against. Even though it was selling the products to clients such as German bank IKB and ABN Amro, which was later bought by Citizens’ bank parent Royal Bank of Scotland, Goldman also bet against them, the SEC said.

John Paulson, the Harvard Business School-trained head of Paulson & Co., which made about $1 billion after the portfolio collapsed, actually advised Goldman how to make sure the products were likely to fail, the SEC charged.

The SEC’s suit also went after Fabrice Tourre, a vice president at Goldman who allegedly helped create and pitch the products.

These are pretty damming allegations. I had suspected that something wasn't right with how this mess went down. It will be interesting to see what comes of this.

Also they got bailout money from AIG. What does this say about Henry Paulson

In 2008, Time named Paulson as a runner-up for its Person of the Year 2008, saying, with reference to the Global Financial Crisis of 2008: "if there is a face to this financial debacle, it is now his."

Then read this and also this
Something isn't adding up correctly at all.