Few Questions

[Caesar Augustus]

Hi All,

I've gotten a Roman campaign going kinda well at the moment, but it seems to be lacking in challenge a bit now. I've killed off Pyrrhus (I crushed him in a brutal slugfest outside the walls of Corfinium ), destroyed Epirus, taken every city in Italy as far north as Bononia, taken Sardinia and Corsica from Carthage, and taken the majority of Sicily. I've been attempting to take it slow after the initial rush against Epirus. But there just doesn't seem to be that much challenge once you're making money and destroyed Pyrrhus' semi invincible army.

So I was contemplating playing as another faction, with a completely different troop mix. I was contemplating going for either Pontus or Bactria. Does anybody have any hints and tips for how to be successful as those factions? Or even a suggestion for a different faction and a couple of tips for it?

Cheers!

[Quinn Inuit]

I would suggest playing with restrictive house rules. Those always increase the challenge level by a lot.

If you want some real difficulty, try playing as Pontus or Armenia. (No more than 1/10 horse archers, though.) You'll find yourself heavily outspent by your enemies just because there are so many of them.

[Carados]

I've got a thread a few pages back playing as Pontus. Might be worth a look at. The trick to playing as Pontus/Armenia is to manage your allies, as well as your own. And don't bite off more than you can chew!! I had a very sticky situation at one point where I ended up at war with the Seleucid and Ptolemaic empire

[Caesar Augustus]

Ouch! I bet that didn't end well!

I had a brief look last night as Pontus, and I couldn't quite work out what my opening moves should be. I opted to build roads and mines in both towns to get some money going, and got trade rights with the Seleucids and Armenia. I just can't work out where the best place to expand to should be. It's a toss up between taking Sinope, and whatever that rebel town to the east is.

Of course, I'm still up for trying a different faction. I just want to play as someone other than Rome for a change.

[Fridericus Rex]

I am playing Romans or Germans exclusively -
For the Roman campaign, my experience is similar to CA's.
The next step after Pyrrhus is always taking the two northern Italian cities and than Sicily which is very weak defended by the Greeks and Carthaginians. A tougher defense of the island would go a long way to making this campaign more enjoyable. One can steamroll the island with half an army and finish this campaign before the Gauls can even build a reasonable defense. I remember, in vanilla the Carthaginians had elephants and a much stronger defense which took the Romans all they got to take the island.

[Caesar Augustus]

Agreed, a stronger Greek and Carthaginian presence in Sicily would go a long way towards prolonging the challenge.

Don't get me wrong, you guys have done a great job with making the beginning of the campaign nice and tough, it's just that after the initial struggle of grinding Pyrrhus down and seizing his holdings in Italy the challenge diminishes. Perhaps toughening up the Gauls in Northern Italy and giving them Bononia again would step the difficulty up a little?

[Carados]

Hmmm.

How do we go about making Sicily harder to take? We can't viably add any more regions to the area. Increasing the size of the armies there would have a negative impact on the faction in general (higher upkeep).

Don't worry about the guals to the north. They should be fairly tough to take down.

[Quinn Inuit]

Hmmm...once Syracuse is in the superfaction, we can always increase its army and use a money script to compensate.

[Caesar Augustus]

I suppose it would be easier to improve the situation once you've rolled out the superfaction thing and implemented the various changes I've seen around the board over the past few weeks. I look forward to seeing EXRM 4.0 sometime in the near future?

[Quinn Inuit]

Nope, sorry. There's much work left to do, and I'm going to pulling long days at work all month to get caught up there.

[Caesar Augustus]

Ah oh well bud. If there are any simple bits that need to be done which are also fairly idiot-proof give me a shout if you need a hand

[Quinn Inuit]

Sure, I will, thank you.

[TheBard]

Hey all, haven't been on the forums for a long time. My computer is old and crappy, but I don't have the money to replace, and when I got a new graphics card, it made RTR a lot more fun. Anyway, I used to hate playing as Rome because it was always far too easy. But with the ExRm mod, I've found it to be probably one of, if not the, best experiences I've had of any faction. I made AARs a long time back on Numidia, Illyria, the Germans, Pontus (where I actually lost!), and one on the Ptolemaics with some others on here.

I think it basically comes down to having enough house rules to make it difficult, without so many that it keeps it from being fun (which is what happened to me with Pontus). I try to follow most of Candelarius' recommendations for playing as a true Roman:

only accept ceasefires if they pay tribute
don't initiate wars on unsuspecting non-belligerent neighbors
don't overuse blockades
don't use/overuse general units in direct combat
send all age 16 generals to Roma (or a suitable nearby city if outside Italy) for 4 years for education
don't let new generals lead an army on their own until they are late 20s at least (with some exceptions in non-major campaigns)

This meant that I couldn't attack Gaul, the Greeks, Carthage, etc. until they initiated hostilities with me (even if they blockaded me once, that was enough for me to feel justified). That being said, while I try to play semi-historically, I won't marry myself to the idea that such and such war or battle has to happen in exactly the year it really did, or a certain city has to be bribed to mimic it being given as inheritance. I understand why people do that, but it makes the game less fun for me.

I went after Pyrrhus pretty quickly but I purposefully did not use full-stack armies to try to defeat him, and it mimicked the Pyrrhic victories pretty well. He did die fairly quickly, but I didn't completely kick Epirus out of Italy until at least 268 or so (can't remember exactly).

I finally finished taking all of Southern Italy but still had to continue to deal with Epirus (because of the landbridge between the boot and the mainland in whatever older version of ExRm I'm using). That was actually really good because it really screwed my timeline to take Sicily. By the time I took Syracuse (after the Greeks blockaded me), Epirus and Illyria were causing problems with the landbridge. I romped through the first couple cities there (can't remember the names...at work at the moment), but was eventually forced to abandon them because a) lack of governors (all the youngins were in Roma!), and b) difficulty affording reinforcements.

Just about the time I began to think about taking the rebel city in between Syracuse and the lone Carthaginian city on the west of Sicily (which would have hopefully encouraged them to declare war or blockade me), the Gauls took the two northern cities (Arretium and the other one to the west). Plus, Illyria and Epirus both began blockading all my ports, and their unwillingness to pay tribute meant I had very few trading partners. With huge stacks of Gauls becoming problematic and eventually declaring war on me, I couldn't afford to fend them off, fend off possible attacks from Epirus/Illyria across the landbridge, AND build a huge fleet to end the blockades. Needless to say, things were pretty brutal for a while.

Eventually, I did manage to get a couple of the youngsters as governors after they were 20+ and that helped the money flow a little. Slowly started building fleets (somewhat historical, though I hadn't yet fought Carthage) and breaking blockades. Slowly started beating up the Gauls.

Now it is year 245 or so and I still own only up to Roma and Ancona, but the Gauls are much weaker, and I could probably take the first couple northern cities once I have more governors available. I still don't own all of Sicily, and I'm certainly not raking in the cash.

The three things that made this more difficult and more fun are 1) the landbridge, 2) not declaring war on neighbors first, and 3) placing all 16-year-olds in Roma for 4 year (16 turns!). It may be useful to try these if anyone starts anew with Rome.

Lastly, I want to say thank you to anyone that ever worked on any version of RTRE or this Extended Realism mod. I had forgotten how much fun the game was. Having done a tiny bit of playing around with modding as the Germans, I realize how very much effort must go into every little update.

[Quinn Inuit]

I agree: good house rules really help make the game more fun. I'm glad you're enjoying it so much!

[shadowdrummer46]

I thought the exact same thing my first 5-10 years of the campaign. The beginning of a Roman Campaign is easy enough. Aside from Pyrrhus, it's mostly rebels. In time though, it will become more interesting. Although, with or without house rules, the Roman faction gets harder about 20-30 years into a campaign. For example I'm currently in year 253bc and at war with Carthage, Gaul, Illyria, Macedonia, and Galatia at the same time. Half of them were once allies, who betrayed me. The Ptolemaics are soon to follow as well, since their allied with half of those im at war with (and they have over 800,000 warriors, which should be fun).This campaign is on Hard campaign difficulty and Medium battle difficulty.



My house rules are minimal:
-No general leading armies under 25ish unless they are 4+ stars with traits to make a legend
-Retrain as little as possible
-Rely as much as possible on mercenaries
-Only recruit Roman Citizen units (Hastai, Principes, ect) in Roma and Capua, which makes retraining them a tedious process.
-I haven't gone to war unless provoked
-All 16 year olds go to Roma
-Any young generals fighting with an older one fights with cavalry to "prove his worth" as well as earn expeirence
-No ceasefire unless I gain something
-Only force Diplomacy if the AI is too dumb to accept a generous deal. Although I did have to force Epirius to become a protectorate after they were down to Apollonia...Of course they later rebeled and attacked me lol
-Only trade map info for map info

[Caesar Augustus]

That's an interesting set of house rules mate.

I can never quite decide on which house rules to use for myself. When playing as the Romans I loosely follow Candel's guide, but I get a little bit stuck for other factions. For army composition I tend to stick to no more than about 6 infantry and 2 cavalry faction units, and make the rest up from AOR units. There's also at least 2 family members in the army as well (though the general doesn't fight, the others occasionally replace a cavalry unit depending on bodyguard size). All 16 year olds go to my capital or closest city with suitable educational facilities until they are 20. Nobody leads an army until they are 25 or have traits that mark them out as having a special ability with regard to army leadership (ie natural born leader etc).

I also don't really use navies that much. I don't know how the game decides the battles but it seems completely random to me. The few naval battles I fight are almost all defensive and I use auto_win to resolve them.

Family members with no hope of being useful are always relegated to cavalry units and do not ever lead armies or govern cities (I'm talking about those are born mad etc). They are occassionally used to make heroic charges to sacrifice themselves for the good of the army. Any good ancillaries are passed on to their commanding officer or more talented siblings.

[shadowdrummer46]

My house rules are based on a brief read of the Playing as a True Roman guide fitted to my personal tastes.

(FYI For the purpose of this post "general" and "Family member" are synonyms)

I tend to make my armies with a couple special troops depending on my enemy. Horses for barbarians, missles for elephants and such. My armies consists of generally the same formula, variying in sizes, but the same ratios where possible. As my campaigns continue and my true Roman units become depleted I turn to Mercenaries more and more until I get down to about 50 men in each of my Roman infantry units, then try to find a way to Roma to retrain.

I have a family member who conquered the whole greek peninsula with a completely mercenary army after his Hastai and Principes were down to about 20 men each(started at 160) and had to depart to Roma for Retraining. He is one of my top 4 generals even though he has the "dangerously Mad" trait. lol

Here is an example of a full stack army:
4 Velites or Italic Spearmen(?) (the white shield missle troops)
2 Spearmen (preferably Picene Spearmen)
3 Hastai
2 Principes
2 Triari
3 Italic Cavalry
1 General (2 if I have a young general in training, in which case he fights with cavalry)
The last 2-3 spots vary

My 16 year olds go to Roma because it has the most developed Education system by far in my empire. Generally useless family members go to a city unless it would make that city lose money. Most of the time any governor is better than none.

My navy was extremely weak early on until the Greeks and Carthaginians started blockading me non-stop so I developed a more than competative navy of tiremes and a few biremes for defense and transportation.

As for how the game decides naval battles you can try asking on my Knowledge Thread. Even though I've seen you there before. Which I appriciate very much.

[Caesar Augustus]

Yeah I'm like that too regarding having ratios between various components of my army. Though they are subject to change and troops available.

I've lobbed a couple of questions onto your thread. It's an interesting read

[JaNuZ99]

My house rules generally stick to the guide though i do make some changes here and there

My house rules:

Conquering-
-Occupy Civilized Cities/Historically important ones (like Jerusalem,Alexandria,etc)
-Enslave Barbarian settlements depending on the manpower lost to take them (if i lost a lot of men,the people will pay the price)
-Exterminate any city that is retaken after revolting (Roman Law is absolute!) Exterminate of former Allie's capital if betrayed

Managing-
High Taxes for everyone,except Rome, she gets very high taxes for pop. growth control reasons.
1 governor per province,for example Sicily shall only have one family member serving as a governor serving in the most important city (Syracuse)
Only faction leader controls capital
Tarentum i controlled by a Brutus
Capua by a Scipio
Ancona by a Maximus

Army-
Consular Army- Apart from AOR calvary it is to be filled with ROMAN troops

1 Consul,1 leagatus/tribune 5 Hastati 5 Principes 2 Triarri 3 Vetelities 3 AOR calvary

Legion- 1Legatus 1Tribune 2 Hastati 2 Principes 1Triarri 1 Vetelite 2 AOR Calvary

Field Army- A legion and and alae legion

alae legion- 5 AOR melee troops 2 skirmisher troops 3 Calvary

-No retraining, raise new troops,mix unit cards
-Rely as much as possible on mercenaries when abroad
-Only recruit Roman units in Roma and Capua

War & Children-

-I haven't gone to war unless provoked (or ales a certain demand is not met..or a lot of enemy spies are caught ) :p
-All 16 year olds go to Roma or nearest city with educational facilities
-No ceasefire unless I gain something (single payments if they are not trustworthy, tributes if they are / or just gave me a hard time)
-Force Diplomacy if the AI is too stupid to recognize defeat/help

Misc-
If a diplomat of mine is bribed, i am to send an assassin to kill him ASAP (no one who crosses me lives!)
B4 ceasefires kill any enemy generals that have defeated me or enemy generals that manged to escape me (i'm very vindictive) :p
If certain generals/spies/assassin are not working out send them on a ship and have it get sunk by pirates ( bodyguards aren't cheap)

thse are my hosue rules and i follow them to the latter hehe or else i shall have to go.. hehe

[Sans-Souci]

Some of the Roman house rules I have picked up here and there and use:

Campaign

- at the end of the turn, the faction leader always has to stay in the capital
- my armies have to pass the winter season in towns (i.e. arrive there at the end of the autumn turn). If this is not possible, they must construct a fortress (armies blockading a town are exempted).
- a fleet's size is restricted to 2 ships plus double the number of command stars the admiral has got (admiral with 2 stars = 6 ships)
- combined attacks of fleets or armies are possible
- for army transport the capacity of fleets is limited to the strength of the ships multiplied by ten (a bireme unit with the strength of 24 may transport up to 240 soldiers).
- I never retrain units, not even for higher weapons/armour classes.
- But two or more units which can merge without any extra men remaining, may do so.
- a unit or stack can start to move only if a general is present to give the order
- land bridges are good for the AI, but I must use transport ships in order to cross them
- never reload after a lost battle or a killed general

Managing

- constructing or recruiting orders, or a change of tax level, can be made only if a general is present in the town

Army size

(definition: 1 set = 1 velites, 1 hastates, 1 principes, 1 triarii + (optional) 1 cavalry unit or another tribune)
A tribune may command 1 set, a legate 2 sets, a general 3 and a consul 4 sets, plus 1 additional non-Roman unit for every two command stars he has got. If the faction heir is only a tribune, I may nominate a legate as heir instead or just wait until his rank goes up with time ...

Battles

- I play battles on the battle field only with armies led by my faction heir
- for all other generals: always auto-resolves battles
- after the initial orders, units can receive new orders only if my faction heir is close to them. If the faction heir is killed, no more ordes for this battle, tough luck.

Sieges

- siege equipment (including rams) can be built only if the commander has got a military engineer (or other building point ancillaries such as Archimedes etc.)
- so in the beginning, most sieges are just long blockades

Diplomacy

- if I conclude a lasting treaty (including trade rights) with another country, I must send a diplomat near their capital. If he dies, he must be replaced
- never attack other countries, they must attack me first

In addition, for ExRM, I have changed the settings for Capua to Italian AOR, so that it does not produce Roman units, and limited the experience of all my initial units to Zero.