Fighting an all-front war

[Disregard]

I recently installed Kingdoms again after about a year and went straight back to SS 6.2.

Playing the English in the early era campaign, H/H. I managed to secure all Normandy settlements and the rebel settlements on the British Isles. Not long after I secured an alliance with France, war with the Scots breakout and it was going well until the Pope screws me over. I was close to taking out the first city, Edinburgh but had to retreat(forced to wait 7 or so turns) and opted to attack Ireland instead.

I steamrolled the Irish settlements and siege their capital, then France decides to BACKSTAB me and launch full scale attacks on all my Normandy settlements within the same time frame. To top that off Norway declares war on my sending a full stack with a general near York, though I delayed it with my small but experience navy. What really sucks is the fact that no matter how much I please the Pope and the Papal States(Even with an alliance, gifts, etc), they choose to side with the French.

No alliance with the Papal, now Pope threatens to excommunicate for attacking the Irish, I pulled back all of my units to set up my towns for defense(Spy spotted the Irish has a full stack running around near Dublin). I gave up and retreated from Rennes, sacked the military buildings and formed decent garrisons at Caen castle and Burges. Luckily the Pope calls a crusade against HRE Frankfurt and releases some of the French pressure near my city. Still though most of my troops in Normandy are ALL militia, pitchforks and a few mercs, so I cant really attack France's large armies. Even the Scots managed to build 2 full stacks out of thin air, I still have decent troop saturation in all areas except Ireland but cant go on the offensive. Both my Papal and French allies betray me, the worst and leading cause the POPE screwing up my entire plan.

[Galain_Ironhide]

The french always want to fight the English in this game, its almost hardcoded.

[Mega Tortas de Bodemloze]

Embrace excommunication and Buuurn them....Then once your Monarch is dead make ammends...

[Rogal Dorn]

Stupid French.

[newt]

Something you have to realize is that when the pope tells you to stop attacking, he's not siding with the French, he's telling you both to stop. The penalty applies to both of you.

Also if it says "your standing with the pope will not be as high as it once was", you can still attack with no worries, especially if you have high relations. You will only lose a few points.

Even when you give an attack order and it gives you the warning that you will be excommunicated, you will not be, unless that is what the pope said when he first told you to stop.

[Double A]

Right the Irish rarely ever leave Ireland, and their units are crap, so if you want to leave and for some completely outta this world reason they invade you just fight back with longbow and knights.

The Norwegians have little to no spears or cavalry, so again, longbowmen and knights will take care of them in no time. Just don't let their strong units reach your elites and veterans. Just get some spearmen to chump-block their axemen etc and then flank.

Caen is a good castle, reinforce it with longbowmen and heavy infantry. If you can build trebuchets or ballista towers, do so.

Scotland is mostly pikemen and infantry. Your archers will annihilate their pikes so then you can charge and destroy their infantry. If you can't defeat their pikemen, stall with some crappy spearmen or peasants and flank with cavalry.

Something you have to realize is that when the pope tells you to stop attacking, he's not siding with the French, he's telling you both to stop. The penalty applies to both of you.

Also if it says "your standing with the pope will not be as high as it once was", you can still attack with no worries, especially if you have high relations. You will only lose a few points.

Even when you give an attack order and it gives you the warning that you will be excommunicated, you will not be, unless that is what the pope said when he first told you to stop.

Wow I never knew that... awesome!

[RyuNoKami]

and at that point, just stop fighting, entice the bastards to attack you. Excommunication on the other side!

just started a French campaign. I'm allied to Scotland, Ireland, Portugal, Venice, Denmark. Been at war with the Holy Roman Empire since turn 2, English since turn 4. and both spanish factions since turn 7. all of them became excommunicated. xD, especially when i went honoring my alliances. When Scotland was about to lose Edinburgh, i sent a force to take Exeter and Winchester, and gave it to them. I took Frankfurt and gave it to Denmark. recently forced to fight against Genoa cause they pissed off the Pope.

[Disregard]

It doesnt make sense though, my Pope rating dropped to 4 stars while France retains their alliance with the Papal states and their 9 star favor. They havent attacked me yet after the Pope called a crusade on HRE, but theres still a few large stacks in my area.

So giving up land to retain good relationships with other empires besides the Papal states is a good idea? I never really bothered to do that, instead just give them money and gifts to keep the alliance going. Of course my relations with France was decent, yet they still betrayed me out of nowhere so early. Right when I was in the middle of fighting 3 other empires.

[newt]

If you mean you lost an alliance with the pope after attacking, then yes, the game is kinda coded like that. It doesn't really matter who it is, they will usually turn on the player if both their allies start fighting. If you have a marriage alliance, you have a better chance of keeping the alliance...usually. (but this doesn't apply to the pope)

[Disregard]

Whats the most efficient way to bait and provoke the Pope to threaten excommunication to AI faction? Its impossible to achieve anything without the Pope screwing me over when I have progression. A bait settlement? :/

[Ichon]

Wait for AI that is already a bit out of favor with Pope too be busy on another front then siege a few of their towns with smaller forces. The Pope will usually issue an edict and the AI can't resist sallying against a smaller siege force. Because you can stay in a siege and not break the Papal orders as long as you entered it prior to the Pope's warning however initiating a battle breaks the order and the AI gets the penalty. The reason to siege a few is the AI will sally out during its turn before the Pope gives the order but if you have a few of the AI's regions under siege is usually forgets or doesn't worry about a couple the first turn especially if you can find settlements with no generals...

[sbroadbent]

Wait for AI that is already a bit out of favor with Pope too be busy on another front then siege a few of their towns with smaller forces. The Pope will usually issue an edict and the AI can't resist sallying against a smaller siege force. Because you can stay in a siege and not break the Papal orders as long as you entered it prior to the Pope's warning however initiating a battle breaks the order and the AI gets the penalty. The reason to siege a few is the AI will sally out during its turn before the Pope gives the order but if you have a few of the AI's regions under siege is usually forgets or doesn't worry about a couple the first turn especially if you can find settlements with no generals...

Are you sure about this?

From what I understand, if you're threatened with excom, you can attack any stacks of that faction if they are within your territory or blockading your ports without anything happening to you.

Whether or not you take a rep hit is another matter, but I've never had the box pop up saying that I may be excommunicated if I continue, so long as it's within my territory.


What you do do is remove all your units except one from a border settlement, and camp them nearby. Wait for the AI to cross over and lay siege. Unless the AI has catapults/trebuchets, they'll have to wait at least a turn giving you the time to return and crush them. If they got catapults, well, you might find yourself trying to retake it

Even better is when the AI has ships nearby and does a blockade.

As Norway, I got the Danes excomm'd by Turn 4 or 5 by grabbing Arhus, triggering the warning, and then the Danes blockaded Arhus the next turn

[JorisofHolland]

From what I understand, if you're threatened with excom, you can attack any stacks of that faction if they are within your territory or blockading your ports without anything happening to you.

Whether or not you take a rep hit is another matter, but I've never had the box pop up saying that I may be excommunicated if I continue, so long as it's within my territory.

You seem to have reasonable arguments, I'll give it a try.

What you do do is remove all your units except one from a border settlement, and camp them nearby. Wait for the AI to cross over and lay siege. Unless the AI has catapults/trebuchets, they'll have to wait at least a turn giving you the time to return and crush them. If they got catapults, well, you might find yourself trying to retake it

Even better is when the AI has ships nearby and does a blockade.

As Norway, I got the Danes excomm'd by Turn 4 or 5 by grabbing Arhus, triggering the warning, and then the Danes blockaded Arhus the next turn

That's the best way to attract AI stacks. They will come like flies flying into a lamb.

[Ichon]

Blockades if the AI has ships do work the best because AI seems totally oblivious to Papal warnings with ships. As for the sieges... I'm pretty sure it works though maybe it depends on mod if you experienced different? I thought that was a hard coded thing but maybe not? I've been excommunicated when AI sieged me and Pope issued order then I sallied next turn. That is why the Pope is so freaking annoying. It is not a big deal to wait 7 turns but when the AI can stay in siege and cut the income of my city for 7 turns plus reduce the troops and stop building there. Usually the AI will stay in siege 3-4 turns then attack and get excommunicated but its not always a good trade to me.

As for AI attacking siege on its territory and getting excommunicated I thought so but perhaps the AI did something else on its turn that got it excommunicated and I just thought it was breaking the siege that did it. However I know I've been excommunicated so I figure the same mechanic works against AI too.

[sbroadbent]

The most experience I have with attacking while threatened with excom happened in the vanilla game. Never once seemed to draw the Pope's wrath when I attacked a fleet blockading a port, or to remove a stack from my territory.

The question is can mods change the triggers (and the odds) of getting excomm'd, or is the Papal Excommunication a hard coded thing, like a lot of things.

Would be interesting to test, and I may test using my Templar game so when I have time I'll see if I can get the Danes to march on one of my territories and see what happens.

[Disregard]

Managed to take out destroy the Irish leaving almost 2 stacks of troops to turn rebel. Gotta take out Scotland's castle, they are pumping so many troops out from there. Also got the Pope and Papal on my side again, while the French cant attack me because of the alliance with Papal. Going well, my small experienced navy stacks is blocking Norway from sending full stacks here. Right now just trying to grow my cities with my high chivalry generals and taking the war full-scale against the Scots.

The Scots seem to love spamming cavalry, half of their stacks are full of Knights and Border Horses. -__-

[Double A]

What really?

Strange.

Spam some spear militias with longbow support.

As you may have guessed, my solution for any problem as England is longbowmen, longbowmen, and more longbowmen.

[JorisofHolland]

Dismounted knights also work very well. Polearm-wielding-heavy-armoured infantry can cut down even the strongest Norse warriors. If those guys reach your knights, of course

[XICenturionIX]

Call in another airstrike.

[JorisofHolland]

When I did so, I got the following error log:

[error] Can only call in one airstrike/game. Medieval II Total War will now exit
[warning] Medieval II Total War has encountered an unspecific error and will now exit.