Possibility of double line mass firing

Hi guys!
As many people complained that NTW only has first rank volley fire, I wonder if it is possible to create a historically authentic double line mass firing MOD, just like Wellington did in history.
As you know, in ETW , when infantry units form square, they are actually using double line mass firing against enemy. In NTW it is double line volley fire, very close to mass fire.
So I wonder whether it is technically possible to create such MODs, as FBR was historically obsolete in napoleonic time.

Didn't a dude reintroduced rank fire in NTW (3 not 2..)? Search the modding section.

Originally Posted by RO Citizen

Didn't a dude reintroduced rank fire in NTW (3 not 2..)? Search the modding section.

I saw that already and I am using it.
What I mentioned is Wellington's double line mass fire, not rank fire which was discarded in napoleonic time.
I just want the game to be more authentic.

actually there is 2-3 rank fire in game already... all skirmish class units are able to fire with more than first rank... check Chaseurs,or light infantry closely...

Oh, then I guess only CA can make a new fire system, in a patch. Try at their offical forums (or to PM some CA member?)

Well they could give 2 rank fire to line and 3 rank fire to elite line

yes, they could, but they didn't... instead they gave all units huge accuracy values and they "balanced" everything around it. they chosen gameplay over historical realism path... but if you look at it more closely, they could as well reduce accuracy to historically correct level, give soldiers more ammo and introduce double and triple line fire... that would give the game more immersion as well as historical correctness.. would it be less fun yo play? I DOUBT!

The reason they got rid of rank fire and other firing drills was so that you no longer need to wait for all soldiers to get into formation before firing, because of this I prefer what we have to historical accuracy.

Originally Posted by General of Macedon

The reason they got rid of rank fire and other firing drills was so that you no longer need to wait for all soldiers to get into formation before firing, because of this I prefer what we have to historical accuracy.

Yes, no more orders like" Make ready!","Aim!"etc, just fire at will dramatically improves firing efficiency, but that's not real, so not fun for players preferring a more authentic historical atmosphere.
Perhaps it's unlikely such MODs may be developed, as is the case in ETW.

Originally Posted by Kurfuerst

Yes, no more orders like" Make ready!","Aim!"etc, just fire at will dramatically improves firing efficiency, but that's not real, so not fun for players preferring a more authentic historical atmosphere.
Perhaps it's unlikely such MODs may be developed, as is the case in ETW.

I want as historical a game as possible however having cavalry break your line because your waiting for one man, in the third line, is not fun and this is one of the few things that I am willing to accept being ahistorical. However if a mod could be made where only the first two ranks need to be in line to start firing it would be awesome!

check how light infantry behaves - they have no issues with soldiers not in formation or anything and they still fire with two or three ranks. I have used same thing in ETW mod ER. i just gave all units skirmish behavior and they sudenly were able to fire with more ranks, sometimes even if some soldiers were stuck half across the map... Its actually very easy fix for NTW too and i plan to introduce Napoleon version of ER very soon with this fix. Fire by rank and platoon fire was removed in ER long time ago because those are bugged fire drills... (as well as square in ETW)

So real question is, why CA didnt just modify volley fire mode during development of NTW to make it more suited for Napoleonic warfare?

Originally Posted by JaM

check how light infantry behaves - they have no issues with soldiers not in formation or anything and they still fire with two or three ranks. I have used same thing in ETW mod ER. i just gave all units skirmish behavior and they sudenly were able to fire with more ranks, sometimes even if some soldiers were stuck half across the map... Its actually very easy fix for NTW too and i plan to introduce Napoleon version of ER very soon with this fix. Fire by rank and platoon fire was removed in ER long time ago because those are bugged fire drills... (as well as square in ETW)

So real question is, why CA didnt just modify volley fire mode during development of NTW to make it more suited for Napoleonic warfare?

Yes, and I did notice light infantry skirmish behavior, and it can partially replace the function of double or triple line mass fire. The accurate double line mass firing of British style at that time, however, was troops deployed in two ranks with the first rank half-kneeling and the rear rank standing. Both ranks fire simultaneously.
However I'll try skirmish behavior. Thanks!

Look forward to your efforts JaM. Will you also be getting rid of Grenades and Skirmisher Stakes? I really want a "realism" mod.

Originally Posted by JaM

check how light infantry behaves - they have no issues with soldiers not in formation or anything and they still fire with two or three ranks. I have used same thing in ETW mod ER. i just gave all units skirmish behavior and they sudenly were able to fire with more ranks, sometimes even if some soldiers were stuck half across the map... Its actually very easy fix for NTW too and i plan to introduce Napoleon version of ER very soon with this fix. Fire by rank and platoon fire was removed in ER long time ago because those are bugged fire drills... (as well as square in ETW)

So real question is, why CA didnt just modify volley fire mode during development of NTW to make it more suited for Napoleonic warfare?

That would be a great mod. Just make sure to reduce musket lethality in one form or another. With twice as many rounds going down range, battles will end twice as fast and there over too quick as is. Maybe a wider spread with higher reloading times?

Kurfuerst: That double line with first line kneeling was used only on training grounds - in battle officers never allowed soldiers to kneel - it was almost impossible to make them stand again if needed because kneeling position was relatively safe against musket fire. plus, it was not trained as double line but triple line with first line kneeling, second and third firing standing. instead in battle they used double line firing (standing, second line firing over the shoulder of first line) and third line was kept as a reserve.

Originally Posted by JaM

Kurfuerst: That double line with first line kneeling was used only on training grounds - in battle officers never allowed soldiers to kneel - it was almost impossible to make them stand again if needed because kneeling position was relatively safe against musket fire. plus, it was not trained as double line but triple line with first line kneeling, second and third firing standing. instead in battle they used double line firing (standing, second line firing over the shoulder of first line) and third line was kept as a reserve.

As far as I know, there used to be two types of double line formation. Britain and Austria used the half-kneeling type. And after 1809, in my dim recollection, Austria abandoned that one and assumed the formation as you mentioned, and the reason was just as you said, kneeling soldiers were reluctant to rise again for safety reasons. But the British army, however, kept the old style.

yep, accuracy must be reduced, ammo increased, number of men per unit should be higher, their formations tighter, movement speed slower... etc...