Mandate of Heaven: Total War

[Society]

What about a TW game set during the unification of China by Qin Shi Huang? People have talked about so many different possibilities but this is an often ignored and rather intricate possible setting for a truly epic TW game.

[Augustus Lucifer]

It doesn't have the ingredients necessary for a TW game. It would need to be easily recognizable for a Western audience and contain enough military diversity. It could do for a mod, but not a TW game. Most unification wars are unlikely to be taken up because the tactics and army makeup will be too similar.

[Xerrop]

It doesn't have the ingredients necessary for a TW game. It would need to be easily recognizable for a Western audience and contain enough military diversity. It could do for a mod, but not a TW game. Most unification wars are unlikely to be taken up because the tactics and army makeup will be too similar.

I´m curious, what ingredients are missing? And why is there no military diversity?

[Cornelius Plautus]

It doesn't have the ingredients necessary for a TW game. It would need to be easily recognizable for a Western audience and contain enough military diversity. It could do for a mod, but not a TW game. Most unification wars are unlikely to be taken up because the tactics and army makeup will be too similar.

I agree here. I don't think that ancient Chinese infighting would attract enough Western customers; personally, I wouldn't buy that game. Typically speaking, Total War games are successful if they're set in an easily recognizable, unique and brutal culture. Rome, the Medieval Era, Japan, and Pre-Columbian South American all fit the bill nicely; however, I feel as if the Chinese have never really been known for military might, and so wouldn't garner enough attention.

[nomooon]

I agree here. I don't think that ancient Chinese infighting would attract enough Western customers; personally, I wouldn't buy that game. Typically speaking, Total War games are successful if they're set in an easily recognizable, unique and brutal culture. Rome, the Medieval Era, Japan, and Pre-Columbian South American all fit the bill nicely; however, I feel as if the Chinese have never really been known for military might, and so wouldn't garner enough attention.

unfortunately you are right although you know ancient and early middle age China would be pretty strong because it had to survive against the some of the most powerful nomads of their time, one notable being the Mongol Horde in its prime. ( look at the size of Mongolian force involved in wars against China and the size involved in wars against Eastern Europe/Middle East! even though China fell as its leaders at that time were failures, it was still an impressive war)

btw about the Warring States Period mentioned by OP, judging from the size and bloodiness alone nothing else in ancient/medieval world history even come close in being compared to it.

Here read this, one of the more famous battles of the period http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_changping

[Jopo_80]

Could be a good mod, I´d like to see ancient Chinese units and buildings.

If only there weren´t those damned limits coded into the games engine hampering modding. I say remove ALL the limits and make the whole thing moddable so you could add new stuff completely freely. The CA already made fine vanilla games, why stop the game from becoming even better when people add new stuff??

Now, if only we could have the whole world map in the games and have good battles with ancient Chinese and Roman or Greek forces colliding, it´s TOTAL WAR !

How about making the mod for a newer game, like Empire?
Just take all the ancient units and stuff and slap it into the Empire´s engine. You could have religions, naval battles and stuff.. Does Empire have the personality traits and such? Family members? Or could you add them?

[Xerrop]

What about a TW game set during the unification of China by Qin Shi Huang? People have talked about so many different possibilities but this is an often ignored and rather intricate possible setting for a truly epic TW game.

Don´t know much about Chinese history - what timeframe would it cover and which major faction were around at this time?

[Jopo_80]

Let me dig some info for you Xerrop...

From Wikipedia:

Qin Shi Huangdi (Chinese: 秦始皇; pinyin: Qín Shǐhuáng; Wade-Giles: Ch'in Shih-huang; IPA: [tɕʰin ʂɨxu̯ɑŋ]) (259 BC – 210 BC), personal name Ying Zheng (Chinese: 嬴政; pinyin: Yíng Zhèng), was king of the Chinese State of Qin from 246 BC to 221 BC during the Warring States Period.[3] He became the first emperor of a unified China in 221 BC. He ruled until his death in 210 BC at the age of 50.

Qin Shi Huang remains a controversial figure in Chinese history. After unifying China, he and his chief advisor Li Si passed a series of major economic and political reforms. He undertook gigantic projects, including the first version of the Great Wall of China, the now famous city-sized mausoleum guarded by a life-sized Terracotta Army, and a massive national road system, all at the expense of numerous lives. To ensure stability, Qin Shi Huang outlawed and burned many books. Despite the tyranny of his autocratic rule, Qin Shi Huang is regarded as a pivotal figure.


The mod would be about the Warring States period of China and the First Dynasty (the Qin dynasty, named after the legendary first emperor of all China, Qin Shi Huang Di)

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Info at Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qin_Shi_Huang
(Read about the achievements and gigantic building projects of the man, like the first version of the Great Wall, Epang palace named after his favourite concubine, the 34 kilometer Lingqu canal, built of course by sheer human muscle and the 12 gigantic bronze colossi statues, made from collected weapons, the greeks only had one Colossus of Rhodes.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warring_States_Period

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qin_Dynasty
(The Qin ruled from 221-206 BC, only a short while.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jing_Ke
(Read about the assassin who tried to murder Qin Shi Huang at a meeting in his palace with a poisoned dagger.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qin_Shi...of_unification
(Here´s a list of all the states in the Warring States period, all the factions at that time.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burning...ng_of_scholars
(Another of Qin´s achievements, to avoid scholars' comparisons of his reign with the past, Qin Shi Huang also ordered for most previously existing books to be burned, owning the Book of Songs or the Classic of History was to be punished especially severely. According to the later Records of the Grand Historian, the following year Qin Shi Huang had some 460 scholars buried alive for owning the forbidden books. What a man! )

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terracotta_Army
(The giant collection of lifelike, life-size, terracotta statues made to represent Qin´s royal guard and to guard his tomb. One of the wonders of Chinese history, without a doubt.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese...ly_tree_(early)
(If you´re interested in the names of all the emperors, could be useful in compiling a names list for the mod?)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Han_Dynasty
(The second dynasty 206 BC - 220 AD, after which China fragmented to the Three Kingdoms period (220 AD - 265 AD ), perhaps a sort of dark age of China? Like what happened here in Europe after the collapse of Western Roman Empire? Only that the Three Kingdoms period lasted only a few decades, not centuries, like in Europe.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Kingdoms
(a period of disunity in China after the collapse of the Han dynasty. A period in which three competing Emperors or kings competed for power in China.)

Title meaning: (-from wikipedia)

During the preceding Zhou Dynasty (700 BC-221 BC), later rulers of the independent states of China by convention used the title “King” (Chinese: 王; pinyin: Wáng). Following his defeat of the last of the Warring States in 221 BC, King Zheng of Qin became de facto ruler of all China. To celebrate this achievement and consolidate his power base, King Zheng created a new title calling himself the First Sovereign Qin Emperor (Chinese: 秦始皇帝; pinyin: Qín Shǐ Huángdì; Wade-Giles: Qing Shih Huang-di), often shortened to Qin Shi Huang (Chinese: 秦始皇; pinyin: Qín Shǐ Huáng; Wade-Giles: Qing Shih-Huang).

The character (始) means “first”.[5] The first emperor's heirs would then be successively called "Second Emperor", "Third Emperor" and so on down the generations.

The characters "皇帝" (pinyin: Huángdì) come from the mythical Three Sovereigns and Five Emperors Era (Chinese: 三皇五帝; pinyin: Sān Huáng Wŭ Dì) (3rd Century BC), from which the two characters (皇帝) are extracted.[7] By adding such a title, Qín Shǐ Huángdì hoped to appropriate some of the previous Yellow Emperor's (黃帝) divine status and prestige.

...So Ying Zheng, the king of Qin, became known as the "First Sovereign Qin Emperor" or Qín Shǐ Huángdì throughout history. The honorary name stuck.
(With huangdi referring to the ancient mythical emperors, to get some of the glow of their glory, maybe a sort of Chinese version of the title Caesar used by all European monarchs, Augustus or Nero Caesar, all added the Caesar to their names, Kaiser, Czar, all corruptions or versions of CAESAR, the original emperor of Europe.)



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Since the Qin ruled only such a short time, perhaps the mod should cover a larger timeframe?

Maybe include the Warring States period (475-221 BC) (The Qin state was one of the factions in the warriong states period, the state of Han, like the Han-chinese, there´s a cultural difference I think, was another. So were the states of Yan and Zhao. -wiki) and continue to cover at least the Han dynasty period, one of the golden ages of China. (206 BC - 220 AD)

So, make it last from 475 BC - 220 AD ? That´s a good time period I think.
...And it would give plenty of challenge. First unite China in the Warring States Period and get crowned Emperor, then deal with the Mongols and other factions outside Chinas borders during the later periods.

If only we could have the whole world map and unite some mods, to create a whole WORLD of units and stuff, for different civilizations and play them against each other.
Hegemonia city states units and Europa Barbarorum units combined with Asian units on a map of the whole world, building empires, trading and warring. That would be GREAT !!
CA vanilla stuff could be unified into the package, to give more movies and pictures and units, to flesh out the whole.

Does anyone in the mod community know how to make those nifty intro movies and Win/Lose movies?
Perhaps people could recruit their friends, parents (in english speaking countries) etc. to be voice actors in movies made for mods.

I did some amateur acting in a theatre club in highschool, it´s easy, just memorize the lines, get into a suitable mood and attitude, and let the acting commence, just speak the lines into a good mic and you´re done.

movies for different wonders would also be nice, if you code some new wonders, like the Stonehenge or some chinese wonders in Mandate of Heaven.

If you REALLY get into it, you could flesh out the whole game with different movies and graphical stuff, that reward the player when you win a battle, conquer a city or something.

-Cheers ! (Still waiting for them to add a Finnish flag into the smileys, add China too.)

[Halie Satanus]

Old Chinese proverb say, ''look with eyes not with belly''

Three Kingdoms: Total War (BI)

Ancient China is caught in the flames of war again! Step in the era of the Three Kingdoms and reunite the Empire and create your own dynasty!