The Battle of Kosovo has very much been a focal of point for nationalism in the Balkans for a while
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
The Battle of Kosovo has very much been a focal of point for nationalism in the Balkans for a while
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Last edited by Babur; March 02, 2010 at 02:33 PM.
Needs some formatting and better spacing of paragraphs, btw. Hurts the eyes as it is.
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edited
Good man. In the meantime I read through it and it seems to offer a good review of the early literature on the battle. My interpretation is that the Battle of Kosovo represented either a draw or a slight Ottoman victory, 'phyrric' as the author concludes. The general line of information indicates two alternatives to me:
-- During the battle the Ottoman lines were infiltrated and Murad was assassinated by a Serbian noble. Shortly afterwards as the battle was drawing to a close under the new command of Beyezid Prince Lazar was either killed fighting or captured and executed, while both armies left the field in order but without their leader.
-- The Ottomans won the battle, with Lazar's fate being roughly the same, but the former suffered heavy losses, and as Murad surveyed the carnage he was assassinated by a Serbian noble lying in wait. Beyezid took control of the situation and returned with what was left of the army to Edirne, now utterly incapable of exploiting whatever advantage there might have been on the battlefield.
The author says that the Battle of Kosovo seems to have been more important in legend than in fact, but I wonder about this. It seems like the battle itself, despite resulting in the death of Prince Lazar, established the reputation of his name and blood-line to the extent that his son Stefan was able to wield it to form a renewed central state which had disintegrated along with the Nemanjic dynasty. In this I see relevance of the battle in real terms or as a combination between fact and legend. Without the death and subsequent eulogizing of Lazar, his descendant never could have been able to exercise influence to the point he did; conversely, without the death of Murad and the losses incurred on the Ottoman army on the field of Kosovo, there wouldn't have been time for anyone to put the pieces of Serbia back together whatsoever.
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yuh Murad I was killed which is pretty damn pyrhhicIn the meantime I read through it and it seems to offer a good review of the early literature on the battle. My interpretation is that the Battle of Kosovo represented either a draw or a slight Ottoman victory, 'phyrric' as the author concludes. The general line of information indicates two alternatives to me:
-Bayazid I wouldn't have an easy time 13 years later- During the battle the Ottoman lines were infiltrated and Murad was assassinated by a Serbian noble. Shortly afterwards as the battle was drawing to a close under the new command of Beyezid Prince Lazar was either killed fighting or captured and executed, while both armies left the field in order but without their leader.
-- The Ottomans won the battle, with Lazar's fate being roughly the same, but the former suffered heavy losses, and as Murad surveyed the carnage he was assassinated by a Serbian noble lying in wait. Beyezid took control of the situation and returned with what was left of the army to Edirne, now utterly incapable of exploiting whatever advantage there might have been on the battlefield.
well the legend fostered nationalist sentiments which would be expressed in the 19th CenturyThe author says that the Battle of Kosovo seems to have been more important in legend than in fact, but I wonder about this. It seems like the battle itself, despite resulting in the death of Prince Lazar, established the reputation of his name and blood-line to the extent that his son Stefan was able to wield it to form a renewed central state which had disintegrated along with the Nemanjic dynasty. In this I see relevance of the battle in real terms or as a combination between fact and legend. Without the death and subsequent eulogizing of Lazar, his descendant never could have been able to exercise influence to the point he did; conversely, without the death of Murad and the losses incurred on the Ottoman army on the field of Kosovo, there wouldn't have been time for anyone to put the pieces of Serbia back together whatsoever.
Yea from what I remember the Serbs were pretty much the most successful fighting force in the Turk's army at Ankara smashing Timur's flank.
"Mors Certa, Hora Incerta."
"We are a brave people of a warrior race, descendants of the illustrious Romans, who made the world tremor. And in this way we will make it known to the whole world that we are true Romans and their descendants, and our name will never die and we will make proud the memories of our parents." ~ Despot Voda 1561
"The emperor Trajan, after conquering this country, divided it among his soldiers and made it into a Roman colony, so that these Romanians are descendants, as it is said, of these ancient colonists, and they preserve the name of the Romans." ~ 1532, Francesco della Valle Secretary of Aloisio Gritti, a natural son to Doge
yep.. them dam tatars switches sides!!!
but as for kosova, of course they're gonna idolize it.. thats how good we were at defeating themjk!
It seems to me Kossovo is quite simmilar with Mohac : both are seen by the respective nations as national catastrophes, creating a myth around them, but if we look more carefully they were not as decissive - for example Hungary was not immediatly destroyed after Mohac, it took several decades to desintegrate time when a determinate leader could have saved Hungary.
Well, Serbia took some time too. Of course it was Ottoman vassal but it existed for a few decades after the battle. And after the battle of Ankara Serbia discarded the vassalage (I think) but eventually Ottomans conquered it.
The problem is (in my opinion) that the death of Lazar prevented a strong leader who could unite all the different nobles.
When Serbian emperor Dushan (the mighty) died he left a son who although smart did not have his fathers will and ruthlessness( no offense, but in those times it was a necessity for a ruler) and was childless to boot. Urosh (i think they called him "the weak")
Lazar was perhaps the chance to have one Emperor again who could unite all the lands and nobles, but he died in the battle.
Of course the legend came with the centuries, distorting some facts and loosing anthers......
However, the importance for Serbs is that the first Serbian state and the Serbian Orthodox Church were funded and based on what is today Pech in Kosovo.
The battle that effectively signaled the start of the fall of independent Serbian kingdom happening on Kosovo as well, is just a part of the Serbian feelings and contributed to the legend.
Ugly as the north end of a pig going south
гурманска пљескавица пуњена ролованом пилетином и умотана у сланину, па све то у кајмаку
I think Northern Serbia remained free of Ottoman rule until the late 15th century under Hungarian overlordship.
Last edited by Erebus Pasha; March 03, 2010 at 07:45 AM.
Yeah,there was even a Serbian state in 16th century created by Jovan Nenad,in what today is Vojvodina,but it was very short-lived.
1389 and the field of blackbirds were not a loss for the Serbs. At worst the battle was a draw (both commanders were killed) at best it was a Serb victory. Lazars son continued as 'king' for some years after the battle - hardly a catastrophic loss.
The Serb kingdom was certainly already in decline, a process that continued for some time after 1389. The real problem is the lack of contemperous accounts (and the usual Balkans fog of slivo and bravado) has caused the whole thing to be mythologised in the way that battles from the same era in western europe such as Crecy in 1346 or Agincourt in 1415 have not.