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  1. #1

    Default Merguen-,dismounted Khorchi archers

    Merguen-,dismounted Khorchi archers
    In discription it says Merguen archers are the masters of the masters and noone can fly their arrows truer and farther.
    But the truth is, dismounted khorchi have much higher range:
    stat_pri 6, 2, elite_mass_composite_arrow, 210 (range)

    Merguen only:
    stat_pri 6, 2, exceptional_composite_arrow, 170 (range)


    Merguen even cost more than dis.khorchi archers. So what is the point of that?
    I also checked exceptional_composite_arrow,elite_mass_composite_arrow in projectile text file
    and I saw that elite_mass_composite_arrow has much more accuracy.
    That means Dismounted Khorchis shoot farther and more precisely!!!

    Is that a mistake? If not whats the point of paying more money for worse units?

    thank you for all comments
    Last edited by PlautusLeo; March 01, 2010 at 06:14 PM.

  2. #2
    gluteus maximus aurelius's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: Merguen-,dismounted Khorchi archers

    I think you should probably post this in the correct submod forum rather than the main SS forum.
    Dyslexia for cure found!!

  3. #3
    Caesar Clivus's Avatar SS Forum Moderator
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    Default Re: Merguen-,dismounted Khorchi archers

    Plautus I have repeatedly told you to post questions about RR/RC in the RR/RC forum. Please do so.

    The unit descriptions are from Rusichi Total War.
    Last edited by Caesar Clivus; March 01, 2010 at 06:37 PM.

    BftB2 UPDATED 22nd DECEMBER. Member of the Complete Byzantine Unit Roster team

  4. #4

    Default Re: Merguen-,dismounted Khorchi archers

    Merguen are skirmishers, Khorchi are missile archers. Use that as a starting point for a search, its been asked multiple times.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Merguen-,dismounted Khorchi archers

    skirmishers???? like javelins?
    Anyway I dont get the point why they are expansiver than dismounted khorchis. WOuld be nice to tell me, why good units are cheaper than worse.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Merguen-,dismounted Khorchi archers

    Yawn

  7. #7
    Gorrrrrn's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: Merguen-,dismounted Khorchi archers

    PB - PL is trying.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Merguen-,dismounted Khorchi archers

    Sigh, OK. For a start:

    -Bows are divided into 'Missile' and 'Skirmish' types, with their own updated animations
    * 'Missile' units shoot faster but with less accuracy to a greater range - these units create a real 'arrow shower' over a wider area
    * 'Skirmish' units shoot more slowly but with better accuracy, over direct sights (ie a shorter range). Foot skirmishers are the most accurate archer units

    Skirmish units are placed by the formation file out in front of the main battle line and usually skirmish away from danger.

    Consider 'Missile' archers as having a lower lethality overall, but that it is applied rapidly due to their faster shooting rate, and skirmish archers a higher total lethality that takes longer to apply.

    You really want to have Missile archers shoot into bunched groups of enemy units for maximum effect.

    Merguen are 'Exceptional' quality with generally better stats except armor, Khorchi are Elite, ie lower quality, hence the higher cost for Merguen.

    There, that's 5 minutes of my life I'll never get back again
    Last edited by Point Blank; March 02, 2010 at 07:37 AM.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Merguen-,dismounted Khorchi archers

    well, the fact is the opposite of what you said. Merguens are worse in melee (cz not effective against armor) and still worse in missile.
    And if you still dont believe me, why dont you make a test?
    take a group of dis.khorchis and merguen and let them shoot a target

    Afterwards check the results. I really wonder why people talk talk talk about something they didnt try out.
    You cant talk about something you never tested. Make the test!
    I am not the onlyone who is complaining about it, all the other people I play with share my opinion. There is absolutely no point to take Merguens.
    When I chekc the results in the end of a battle it talks another story according to what you said.

    Merguen cause less damage in missile than Dis.khorchi. I would like to upload a pic, but I dont know how
    Last edited by PlautusLeo; March 02, 2010 at 11:26 AM.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Merguen-,dismounted Khorchi archers

    Quote Originally Posted by PlautusLeo View Post
    well, the fact is the opposite of what you said. Merguens are worse in melee (cz not effective against armor) and still worse in missile.
    And if you still dont believe me, why dont you make a test?
    take a group of dis.khorchis and merguen and let them shoot a target

    Afterwards check the results. I really wonder why people talk talk talk about something they didnt try out.
    You cant talk about something you never tested. Make the test!
    I am not the onlyone who is complaining about it, all the other people I play with share my opinion. There is absolutely no point to take Merguens.
    When I chekc the results in the end of a battle it talks another story according to what you said.

    Merguen cause less damage in missile than Dis.khorchi. I would like to upload a pic, but I dont know how
    Ridiculous, Khorchi have less accuracy than Merguen, try shooting off all their ammo in a properly controlled test vs stationary target on open grasssland. I told you that Skirmish archers shoot slower and in fact rarely get through their entire ammo load in battle. Efffectiveness also depends on target bunching etc. As far as melee, RC merely represents their weapons as depicted, Khorchi has 2AP so it will be more effective vs armor than another, but less effective vs unarmored (Merguen has 5 attack, better defense , faster attack, better morale etc etc).

    Roz, see why I don't answer this PL rubbish?? I won't do so again.
    Last edited by Point Blank; March 02, 2010 at 01:38 PM.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Merguen-,dismounted Khorchi archers

    another thing I noticed. my archers need a too long to switch from their bow to melee weapon. THey are already involved in a melee fight and have still their bows in hand. I always loose 10 soldiers until they switch units while they are involved in a melee fight

    increasing the charge distance, would fix it!
    Last edited by PlautusLeo; March 02, 2010 at 11:30 AM.

  12. #12
    JorisofHolland's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Merguen-,dismounted Khorchi archers

    That's a vanilla bug, right? I've never seen it in SS (don't have the time to take a closer look at the action ) but I always saw it when I played vanilla.
    About the pictures: on top of the screen there is a FAQ button (next to "My Account" and "Register"). I'm sure there is something in it.
    The Enemy of Human Souls
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    And was a sovereign Southern State.

  13. #13
    Gorrrrrn's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: Merguen-,dismounted Khorchi archers

    I said he was trying

  14. #14

    Default Re: Merguen-,dismounted Khorchi archers

    ok, thank you for all comments.
    but if I do as you say, letting shoot my merguens til they get out of ammo, I will lose a lot of archers by opposite arrows.
    maybe you should make them even more precise? if khorchi kills faster, cz they shoot faster and wider, why shall I take merguens?
    Do you think the enemy is that stupid to wait til my merguens getting out of ammo?
    As is mostly the case, the opponent is coming, so I dont have a lot of time to shoot him.
    There is no point to take Merguens.
    Please, please, fix it!
    Last edited by PlautusLeo; March 02, 2010 at 02:38 PM.

  15. #15
    JorisofHolland's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Merguen-,dismounted Khorchi archers

    Quote Originally Posted by PlautusLeo View Post
    ok, thank you for all comments.
    but if I do as you say, letting shoot my merguens til they get out of ammo, I will lose a lot of archers by opposite arrows.
    maybe you should make them even more precise? if khorchi kills faster, cz they shoot faster and wider, why shall I take merguens?
    Do you think the enemy is that stupid to wait til my merguens getting out of ammo?
    As is mostly the case, the opponent is coming, so I dont have a lot of time to shoot him.
    There is no point to take Merguens.
    Please, please, fix it!
    Why don't you do it yourself? In the Mod Workshop are many tutorials, I'm sure there is one to change stats.
    The Enemy of Human Souls
    Sat grieving at the cost of coals;
    For Hell had been annexed of late,
    And was a sovereign Southern State.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Merguen-,dismounted Khorchi archers

    Oh man.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Merguen-,dismounted Khorchi archers

    Skirmishers are typically better against single units or even a couple of units clustered together. They're also more useful for drawn out battles.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Merguen-,dismounted Khorchi archers

    By the way, don't forget that 6 is as high as arrows go and even the English longbowmen only have 5 attack.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Merguen-,dismounted Khorchi archers

    Quote Originally Posted by meese View Post
    By the way, don't forget that 6 is as high as arrows go and even the English longbowmen only have 5 attack.
    What's higher than an English longbow?


    Aside from a crossbow, obviously...
    Quote Originally Posted by Denny Crane! View Post
    How about we define the rights that allow a government to say that isn't within my freedom.

  20. #20
    JorisofHolland's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Merguen-,dismounted Khorchi archers

    Composite bows?
    The Enemy of Human Souls
    Sat grieving at the cost of coals;
    For Hell had been annexed of late,
    And was a sovereign Southern State.

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