Dutch Catholic Church refuses communion to homosexuals

[removeduser_487563287433]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8542285.stm

Just in case you hadn't worked out that the "hate the sin, not the sinner" excuse wasn't a smokescreen.

I didn't know this was going on. But I am very confused as to why any homosexual would want anything to do with this barbaric institution.

[Scorch]

Everyone should be appalled, yet no one should be surprised.

[iudas]

Everyone should be appalled, yet no one should be surprised.

Why should I be appalled? Why would anyone want 'communion' anyway?

[bigfootedfred]

Everyone should be appalled, yet no one should be surprised.

Why.

Why should they be forced to accept homosexuals and why is there a fuss if they dont.

The bible is very bloody clear...i don't get all this new age Christian stuff, or why a homosexual would want to be part of a religion where the deity at the top considers them perverted and damned.

[Visna]

I'm probably completely missing some important detail here, but why not just go to confession first? You know, "forgive me Father for I have sinned, it has been 7 years since my last confession, and in that time I've been having impure thoughts, and I have engaged in something which even Bill Clinton would call sexual relations with a person of my own gender". "Oh my my, my child, that is a very grave sin indeed, light a candle, say 20 hail Mary's, and donate 5 euros to the Church. Go in peace, yada yada yada". Problem solved?

[Arch-hereticK]

1 Cor. 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

It doesn't even matter if they have sex with anyone of the same gender, simple being homosexual or indeed effeminate gives you a one way ticket to eternal punishment.

[SigniferOne]

1 Cor. 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

It doesn't even matter if they have sex with anyone of the same gender, simple being homosexual or indeed effeminate gives you a one way ticket to eternal punishment.

This is yet another statement completely devoid of any truth or understanding of Christianity. According to Christians it is the practice of homosexuality that constitutes one as such. Indeed it is the only rational understanding of the concept, just as one is a thief for taking someone else's items, or for intending to, but not for having unconscious spurts towards theft that you choose not to act on.

And strange enough, it is not your irrational understanding but the one I outlined here that Christian priests and pastors have always followed, openly embracing non-practicing homosexuals (i.e. those only with the unconscious spurts). In fact it is a standard act of egregious kindness by pastors to embrace such men, to defend them, and even shield from instances of homophobia if it were to abound.

[Monarchist]

1 Cor. 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

It doesn't even matter if they have sex with anyone of the same gender, simple being homosexual or indeed effeminate gives you a one way ticket to eternal punishment.

What nonsense. You've left out the most important bit of the entire thought: "these were among you, but now they are saved". When people repent and stop doing that which they repented for, they are saved. It says "neither fornicators, nor idolaters, et. al." - that is the active, present-tense form of the adjective. He didn't say "neither past fornicators, nor past idolaters, et. al." - it is what you are doing that matters, not what you did or are tempted to do. His whole point was that you must repent and stop your sinning, then go on with life.

It's really not that hard to understand if you don't cut out parts of the passage...

YES! I am glad that someone is not hiding the fact of being gay is a sin! look dude, I dont hate homos, but honestly, they cant be Christians.

Courage, dear fellow, and bring cold steel to these wretched atheists!

I don't get it. As I understand Catholicism, forgiveness will absolve you of even your mortal sins, incest, sodomy, paedophilia, murder, using contraceptives (lol) etc. That forgiveness comes from confessions, non? I mean, death row has probably the highest birthrate for born again Christians anywhere. There must be a reason for that.

Born again Christians are not Roman Catholics. There is no way I could emphasise this fact more than that. Born-agains are the insane Protestant types who think mere homosexual feelings are a sin, and that gay conversion therapy actually works.

This is absurd.

"The Catholic Church/Christian faith is accepting of homosexuals as long as they don't ever have sex, ever."

Well that's a really pointless thing to say, to be honest, and just an excuse.

So you're basically saying that gays must have sex with gays to be gay? That's a pretty ignorant and bigoted view, you homophobe! You intolerant person; you insensitive, prejudiced Christian! Does a heterosexual male who takes vows of chastity suddenly become asexual? He is still horny for chicks. I find your assertion insulting, for it assumes that gays are entirely defined by who they have sex with, and not what they are in the core of their being.

[Phier]

I'm probably completely missing some important detail here, but why not just go to confession first? You know, "forgive me Father for I have sinned, it has been 7 years since my last confession, and in that time I've been having impure thoughts, and I have engaged in something which even Bill Clinton would call sexual relations with a person of my own gender". "Oh my my, my child, that is a very grave sin indeed, light a candle, say 20 hail Mary's, and donate 5 euros to the Church. Go in peace, yada yada yada". Problem solved?

Well if you INTEND to sin again then it doesn't matter if its homosexuality or standard infidelity. If you are an open, practicing homosexual then you are putting a big sign on that says 'sinner'. Bill Clinton didn't do the same thing but if he would have told the priest 'Thanks father, you know I intend to do that kinda hot fundraiser tonight so I'll be back', he too should be refused communion.

You have to at least pretend you are trying not to sin.

[Visna]

Well if you INTEND to sin again then it doesn't matter if its homosexuality or standard infidelity. If you are an open, practicing homosexual then you are putting a big sign on that says 'sinner'. Bill Clinton didn't do the same thing but if he would have told the priest 'Thanks father, you know I intend to do that kinda hot fundraiser tonight so I'll be back', he too should be refused communion.

You have to at least pretend you are trying not to sin.

I don't get it. As I understand Catholicism, forgiveness will absolve you of even your mortal sins, incest, sodomy, paedophilia, murder, using contraceptives (lol) etc. That forgiveness comes from confessions, non? I mean, death row has probably the highest birthrate for born again Christians anywhere. There must be a reason for that.

[Thanatos]

The Catholic Church refuses to give communion to homosexuals? I'd actually be surprised if they did give it to them, since the whole issue of homosexuality is pretty much looked down upon, except for certain denominations which are more progressive.

[HIC SVNT LEONES]

It doesn't matter. Private organizations/charities can do whatever they want, as long as it isn't a violation of the countries laws. If there is a problem, report it to the authorities/government and have them deal with it.

[Scorch]

It doesn't matter. Private organizations/charities can do whatever they want, as long as it isn't a violation of the countries laws. If there is a problem, report it to the authorities/government and have them deal with it.

That doesn't change the fact that it is hypocrisy and discrimination from a Church that claims to be a religion of peace and tolerance, just further demonstrating the fact that religion is a barbaric remnant of an age where we did not properly understand the world.

[removeduser_487563287433]

That doesn't change the fact that it is hypocrisy and discrimination from a Church that claims to be a religion of peace and tolerance, just further demonstrating the fact that religion is a barbaric remnant of an age where we did not properly understand the world.

Exactly - the Catholic Church claims it is the only conduit for communion with God, yet it is taking it upon itself to have the power to judge who God does and does not want? It's massive hypocrisy, but I am not saying I am surprised. The more people know how morally bankrupt the Catholic Church is the better.

[SigniferOne]

That doesn't change the fact that it is hypocrisy and discrimination from a Church that claims to be a religion of peace and tolerance

Christianity is not a religion of peace and tolerance. It is a religion of righteousness and truth.

just further demonstrating the fact that religion is a barbaric remnant of an age where we did not properly understand the world.

Nothing in what you've stated shows that you understand the world any more properly.

So what does that make the word of God that we have now, full of untruths? Sorry, but you can't have it both ways. Either they are complete and utter hypocrites or they follow their Holy Book properly and are bronze-age barbarians.

Or there is a third alternative, you have not a shred of morsel of understanding of this religion and thus have no idea of what you are talking about.

As I have said many a time, if one must invent excuses as to why you one is able to completely dismiss two-thirds of your Holy Book, one probably must reassess one's idea of how holy it really is and one probably shouldn't make social commentary based on verses surrounded by parts one tries so passionately to ignore.

Only in your warped mind do passages some people find objectionable occupy that proportion of the total.

[MaximiIian]

This isn't a discussion of law. This is a discussion of morality. And from my perspective, this is a dick move.

[Scorch]

This isn't a discussion of law. This is a discussion of morality. And from my perspective, this is a dick move.

Well they are just doing what their Holy Book tells them. It is completely hypocritical because they don't condone the killing of male prisoners of war, teach that it is okay to take females of conquered towns as sex slaves and teach that God can kill and torture whoever he feels like, and as long as they don't teach such things, they are really just cherry-picking the Bible to promote their own agenda.

When you need to ignore two-thirds of the Bible to make it even semi-acceptable in a modern society, one may need to re-assess.

[Marie Louise von Preussen]

Christianity is not about "peace and tolerance".

Religiousness has nothing to do with the cheap mass morality that is peddled from schoolbooks today. Anyway, if you want simply dogma-less candy to :wub: on, why don't you just turn on the TV or go read a book about affirmative action?

[Scorch]

Christianity is not about "peace and tolerance".

Well at least someone admits it.

[Manco]

They can do whatever they want, as long as they are a private institution (I'd like all the tax-money back though). It does however make them a socially retarded and rather unsavoury bunch.

I'm not too sure whether this is the Catholic Church's official position though. Just over the border (Belgium) gays are perfectly allowed to go to communion and even become priest, as long as they don't actually engage in homosexual acts (and even then I suppose they could just confess). Then again our previous archbishop was a rather compromising figure, and our new one has already made quite a few startling comments; which could mean that perhaps our previous archbishop was the one with the unorthodox opinions.