From Saint to Demon

**BURNY26** · February 27, 2010, 10:24 PM

I need some help guys. Ive been playing a campaign as the Poland.

chronology:
-destroyed lithuania since they are pagans ,this kept the pope and christian world happy
-novgorod attacks me since they are the allies of lithuania
-take 2 cities from novgorod and they offer a peace treaty ,which i accept
-start making crusades against HRR,to keep the pope happy
-after bout two crusades against HRR, the danes start attacking since they are also excomm
-i tackle the problem by taking the danish possession ,magdenburg
-next turn : HELL BREAKS LOSE
-byzantines, france (also excomm), the teutonic order declare war
-i dont look at the byzantines ,since they are only taking a

town at the black sea and start concentrating my forces in the north to destroy the teutons
-hungary declares war
-novgorod declares war

There is one rule that all generals know :never make war on two fronts ,well ive broken it twice .

Short summary:

A thousand nations will descend upon you ... our arrows will bloth out the sun
....
than i will cry in the shade

I have always been a good boy ,never attacking allies ,only attack pagans or excomm and still when you feel like your on top of the world ,the next turn everybody hates you and you wish you could kill all those treacherous factions by throwing your computer out of the window

Could somebody pls tell me how i can keep em happy ?

Just two things .. NO
-save ,try , reload save
-and preferably no reference to guides for Poland ,otherwise i could just play a linear FPS

**Ichon** · February 27, 2010, 10:32 PM

Are you saying you don't want to buy them off or reload earlier to buy them off? The AI obviously saw something it liked about your situation. Either your army is too small compared to your number of regions owned or you expanded just enough in every direction to come in contact with AI objectives on each border.

Your best bet is to pick a couple of the weaker faction and eliminate some of their armies and occupy a city fast as possible. That should allow them to settle for peace especially if you give back the city you took. The larger powers... eh- probably going to be a long fight. Maybe let them attack first to make sure they stay excommed and weaken their armies a bit then go on the offensive. Totally wipe out or vassalize someone so you get at least 1 secure border.

Only trust very reliable allies and even then keep an eye on them.

**Galain_Ironhide** · February 27, 2010, 10:45 PM

Real quick answer coz I'm on the fly.. ....

Pay regular tributes to your allies, like somewhere in the range of 100 - 300 florins a turn (for say about 10turns). That normally keeps them happy. I'll do it for one ally and then when their cycle has finished, I'll tribute the next ally (If there is another) - all whilst also paying tribute to the man with the pointy hat as well. When you are earning good cash, this is quite easy to maintain, can be a little chalenging if you are cash-strapped but still essential.

Also keep your border provinces well garrisoned to keep them from thinking of being greedy.

**BURNY26** · February 27, 2010, 11:07 PM

Originally Posted by Ichon

Are you saying you don't want to buy them off or reload earlier to buy them off? The AI obviously saw something it liked about your situation. Either your army is too small compared to your number of regions owned or you expanded just enough in every direction to come in contact with AI objectives on each border.

I dont want to reload savegames just to pass the peace treaty or any other of the sort.
Could have been that i had to few troops for such a kingdom.
Do you plan your conquest cosidering the AI's objectives?

Originally Posted by Ichon

Your best bet is to pick a couple of the weaker faction and eliminate some of their armies and occupy a city fast as possible. That should allow them to settle for peace especially if you give back the city you took. The larger powers... eh- probably going to be a long fight. Maybe let them attack first to make sure they stay excommed and weaken their armies a bit then go on the offensive. Totally wipe out or vassalize someone so you get at least 1 secure border.

There arent any weak kingdoms around me :HRR(keeps really calm,havent seen an army in 8-10 turns), France ,Denmark,Teutons,Novgorod ,Hungary (has 7 border regions) ,Novgorod (distance between cities becomes to big)

Originally Posted by Ichon

Only trust very reliable allies and even then keep an eye on them.

Scotland,Aragon,Papal,Norway: too far to offer support

Originally Posted by Point Blank

Gift some regions that block potential attack routes to the Pope.

I dont understand how that is going to help me ?

Originally Posted by Galain_Ironhide

Real quick answer coz I'm on the fly.. ....

Pay regular tributes to your allies, like somewhere in the range of 100 - 300 florins a turn (for say about 10turns). That normally keeps them happy. I'll do it for one ally and then when their cycle has finished, I'll tribute the next ally (If there is another) - all whilst also paying tribute to the man with the pointy hat as well. When you are earning good cash, this is quite easy to maintain, can be a little chalenging if you are cash-strapped but still essential.

Also keep your border provinces well garrisoned to keep them from thinking of being greedy.

Paying such small tributes helps? Im asking since i never do it .

**Galain_Ironhide** · February 28, 2010, 12:02 AM

Originally Posted by BURNY26

Paying such small tributes helps? Im asking since i never do it .

Surprisingly yes, although you may want to pay 300-500 minimum on second thoughts. Your relationship with your ally will continue to get better and better. Once the tributes stop will notice after a period of time your reputation with them will drop again. This is why I cycle through my allies.

**BURNY26** · February 28, 2010, 08:21 AM

Originally Posted by Galain_Ironhide

Surprisingly yes, although you may want to pay 300-500 minimum on second thoughts. Your relationship with your ally will continue to get better and better. Once the tributes stop will notice after a period of time your reputation with them will drop again. This is why I cycle through my allies.

Than you probably only pay the ones you absolutly need? Not everyone aroud you ? Otherwise in midcentered nations cases it could take some time ,before starting to repay the first. +rep

Originally Posted by JorisofHolland

That's not a very bad idea. Except I never pay the Pope because I prefer using priests to make him happy. If that won't make him happy, well, there always remain unsolved murder cases...

How good are your assassins man ? Or do you send armies of em ?

Originally Posted by Sir Walter

Appropriate image there. The Pope is always happy if you do three things:

1. Build the bare minimum religious structure (Small Church/Chapel), especially if he tells you to!

2. Give him a bit of money.

3. Do all the missions, except perhaps Crusades/ceasefires.

Oh, and most of the time he's bluffing when he says he'll excommunicate you, I've kept attacking several times in such circumstances. Mind you, keeping a diplomat/ugly princess that can't marry anyone in Italy to pay him before attacking always helps

thx +rep

Originally Posted by sbroadbent

Just don't give the Pope a couple good money making settlements, or you might find out what happens when the Pope has some disposable cash.

Actually, on second thought, when the Pope becomes a war machine, as long as you stay on the Pope's good side, he'll start kicking catholic butt and excomm'ing them in the process.

Until im starting to look as a muslim

+rep for the advice and great AAR!

**JorisofHolland** · February 28, 2010, 12:01 PM

Originally Posted by BURNY26

How good are your assassins man ? Or do you send armies of em ?

Quite good by the time they arrive in Italy. I sometimes put all good ancillaries on one man and then let him do the job, untill he no longer needs all the ancillaries to be 10+. I believe subterfuge counts above the ten, at least, when I give my assassins more items that give + assassination they get better killers, even though they already have 10+ subterfuge.

**Point Blank** · February 27, 2010, 10:43 PM

Gift some regions that block potential attack routes to the Pope.

**Point Blank** · February 27, 2010, 11:22 PM

Catholic factions won't generally attack papal states regions, so you have blocked those regions as attack routes by catholic enemies.

**BURNY26** · February 27, 2010, 11:29 PM

Ah i thought you meant attack routes to the pope. lol

**Point Blank** · February 27, 2010, 11:50 PM

No, but its a fun idea. The pope needs a good kicking now and again

**sbroadbent** · February 28, 2010, 06:32 AM

Originally Posted by Point Blank

No, but its a fun idea. The pope needs a good kicking now and again

Just don't give the Pope a couple good money making settlements, or you might find out what happens when the Pope has some disposable cash.

Actually, on second thought, when the Pope becomes a war machine, as long as you stay on the Pope's good side, he'll start kicking catholic butt and excomm'ing them in the process.

**JorisofHolland** · February 28, 2010, 05:07 AM

That's not a very bad idea. Except I never pay the Pope because I prefer using priests to make him happy. If that won't make him happy, well, there always remain unsolved murder cases...

**Sir Walter** · February 28, 2010, 05:13 AM

^ Appropriate image there. The Pope is always happy if you do three things:

1. Build the bare minimum religious structure (Small Church/Chapel), especially if he tells you to!

2. Give him a bit of money.

3. Do all the missions, except perhaps Crusades/ceasefires.

Oh, and most of the time he's bluffing when he says he'll excommunicate you, I've kept attacking several times in such circumstances. Mind you, keeping a diplomat/ugly princess that can't marry anyone in Italy to pay him before attacking always helps

**JorisofHolland** · February 28, 2010, 05:18 AM

If he says you may be excommunicated, he will do so. If he doesn't, but does gives a ceasfire mission you'll simply loose reputation.

**Sir Walter** · February 28, 2010, 05:26 AM

Originally Posted by JorisofHolland

If he says you may be excommunicated, he will do so. If he doesn't, but does gives a ceasfire mission you'll simply loose reputation.

Ah, but sometimes after a ceasefire, penalty of possible/definite excommunication mission, it says (when I click to attack) that if I do so, I will be excommunicated. And I simply lose reputation, admittedly up to 5 points, but I'm still in the Church

**Rat-tail** · February 28, 2010, 12:46 PM

Just sad to see when a good assassin with many ancillaries failes his mission and is killed ... such a waste of talent and collected ancillaries.

**JorisofHolland** · February 28, 2010, 01:35 PM

Luckily that rarely happens when you pick targets with above 70 % change. The Pope is a different issue, though. But he's easier to stab down than most Cardinals, you know. A quite big flaw in the engine.

**RootsKW** · February 28, 2010, 02:52 PM

Is there somewhere that lists the Assassic ancillaries and how to get them?

**Ichon** · February 28, 2010, 04:33 PM

Teutonic order isn't weak? I have only seen 1 game where they gained much power and it was mostly thanks to me playing as Norway and checking Danes, HRE, and Poland while losing some region to rebellion which Teutons were able to grab. Every other game they go down to 1 region pretty fast and stay that way entire game until a blob takes them out.

If you are Poland and HRE still decently strong then France, Byz, and such are rather far to be a big threat. The closest factions are more threat and there has to be a weaker one... either take out that weakest since it changes the force balance most quickly and efficiently or scout with spies for unguarded cities or something. Danes should have many along Baltic unless you already took them. Novgorod also often leaves unguarded region as it shifts its armies by land far away from coasts. Get an easy victory with cheap cost and use the captured region to bribe another enemy. Only a few faction won't take it.