The Conspiracy

[Pra]

I don't want this to turn into a debacle, so lets keep it clean. As I have said before, I am going to entertain the notion of a global conspiracy. The following is some relative information that I found interesting. The information does not provide a firm basis for an argument on a possible conspiracy, but it is interesting.

the Bildeberg video http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles...bilderberg.htm

BILDERBERG SCARED

James P Tucker | May 07 2005

ROTTACH-EGERN, Germany—Britons were voting even as Bilderberg was gathering here Thursday, May 5, and the British luminaries gave grudging support to Prime Minister Tony Blair’s Labor Party because of his backing of the pending European Constitution (EC). But they remain angry that Blair joined the United States in the invasion of Iraq.

A French referendum on the proposed EC May 29 has Bilderberg deeply concerned. The outcome is in doubt and defeat would be a severe blow to Bilderberg’s long-term effort to establish a globalist government.

Polls in March showed that, after strongly backing the EC for months, French support dropped below 50 percent. The latest poll had supporters ahead by a slight margin. But Bilderberg is still concerned because one-fourth of the supporters could change their minds.

A German Bilderberg insider said the EC is in trouble for the same reason, he hopes, that the Free Trade Area of the Americas may fail: “outsourcing” of jobs.

“American jobs are going to South America, China and India,” he said.

“Jobs in Germany and France are going to Asia and Ukraine.” Ukraine is among the former East Bloc countries that have been admitted to the European Union, bringing membership to 25.

International financiers, along with heads of state and high officials of government in the United States and Europe, are the main muscle of Bilderberg. As the European Union expanded, jobs were shipped to the new memberstates to take advantage of cheap labor—just as NAFTA
affected the United States.

This accounts for the shift in sentiment in France and Germany toward the pending EC and, by extension, to the European Union. France and Germany are suffering economically as a result, while Europe-shunning Britain is relatively healthy.

Unemployment in France and Germany is high—10 percent—because of “outsourcing” and moving plants to poor countries. Britain prospers, making it politically difficult for Blair to keep his years-old promise to Bilderberg to persuade Britons to embrace the EC.

“Protectionism is the flavor of the month,” said an unhappy Elga Bartsch, an economist at Morgan Stanley in London, which is always represented at Bilderberg.

The Financial Times carried a “pre-leak” Bilderberg story May 5, using a tongue-in-cheek style to reassure readers about “conspiracy theories.”

Writer Daniel Dombey failed to mention that his newspaper is regularly represented at Bilderberg.

He inadvertently confirmed past AFP reports with these words: “In 2003, tensions over the Iraq war boiled over.”

http://www.prisonplanet.com/Pages/Ma...ilderberg.html

Bilderberg Group Meeting 2005: Rottach-Egern, Munich, Bavaria, Germany, May 5–8, 2005

Intelligence Sources Say Bilderberg Targeting Patriots

According to Estulin's sources, Bilderberg are very angry at the alternative truth movement and its opposition and exposure of Bilderberg's agenda. More specifically, the Christian Patriot movement in America was highlighted as a nuisance that will have to be dealt with.

Alex Jones interviews Daniel Estulin

Daniel Estulin is award-winning investigative journalist who has been researching the Bilderbergers for over 13 years.

The world in the palm of their hands: Bilderberg 2005

The annual secret meeting of the Bilderberg group determines many of the headlines and news developments you will read about in the coming months. But the Establishment media completely black it out. With the exception of half-a-dozen high-ranking members of the press who are sworn to secrecy, few have ever heard of the exclusive andsecretive group called The Bilderbergers.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/archives...rberg_2005.htm

BILDERBERG MEETING
Rottach-Egern, Germany
5-8 May 2005

LIST OF PARTICIPANTS

Honorary Chairman

B
Davignon, Etienne
Vice Chairman, Suez-Tractebel


Honorary Secretary General

GB
Taylor, J. Martin
International Advisor, Goldman Sachs International


NL
Aartsen, Jozias J. van
Parliamentary Leader, Liberal Party (VVD)

PNA
Abu-Amr, Ziad
Member of he Palestinian Legislative Council; President of the Palestinian Council on Foreign Relations; Professor of Political Science, Birzeit University

D
Ackermann, Josef
Chairman, Group Executive Committee. Deutsche Bank AG

INT
Almunia Amann, Joaquin
Commissioner, European Commission

GR
Alogoskoufis, George
Minister of Economy and Finance

TR
Babacan, Ali
Minister of Economic Affairs

P
Balsemão, Francisco Pinto
Chairman and CEO, IMPRESA, S.G.P.S.; Former Prime Minister

INT
Barroso. José M. Durão
President, European Commission

S
Belfrage, Erik
Senior Vice President, SEB

I
Bernabè, Franco
Vice Chairman, Rothschild Europe

F
Beytout, Nicolas
Editor-in-Chief, Le Figaro

A
Bronner, Oscar
Publisher and Editor, Der Standard

GB
Browne, John
Group Chief Executive, BP plc

D
Burda. Hubert
Chairman of the Board of Management, Hubert Burda Media

IRL
Byrne, David
WHO Special Envoy on Global Cornmunicable Diseases; Former Commissioner, European Commission

F
Camus, Philippe
CEO,EADS

F
Castries, Henri de
Chairman of the Board, AXA

E
Cebrián. Juan Luis
CEO, PRISA

USA
Collins, Timothy C.
Senior Managing Director and CEO, Ripplewood Holdings, LLC

F
Collomb, Bertrand
Chairman, Lafarge

CH
Couchepin, Pascal
Head, Department of Home Affairs

GR
David, George A.
Chairman, Coca-Cola H.B.C. S.A.

F
Delpech, Thérèse
Director for Strategic Affairs, Atomic Energy Commission

GR.
Diamantopoulou, Anna
Member of Parliament

NL
Docters van Leeuwen, Arthur W.H.
Chairman of the Executive Board, Netherlands Authority for the Financial Markets

USA
Donilon, Thomas E.
Partner, O’Melveny & Myers

D
Döpfner, Mathias
CEO, Axel Springer AG

DK
Eldrup, Anders
President, DONG A/S

I
Elkann, John
Vice Chairman, Fiat S.p.A.

USA
Feldstein, Martin S,
President and CEO, National Bureau of Economic Research

USA
Ford, Jr., William C.
Chairman and CEO, Ford Motor Company

USA
Geithner, Timothy F.
President, Federal Reserve Bank of New York

TR
Gencer, Imregul
Member of the Board, Global Investment Holding

ISR
Gilady, Eival
Strategic Advisor to Prime Minister Sharon

IRL
Gleeson, Dermot
Chairman, AIB Group

USA
Graham, Donald E.
Chairman and CEO, The Washington Post Company

N
Grydeland, Bjørn T.
Ambassador to the EU

P
Guterres, António
Former Prime Minister; President, Socialist International

USA
Haass, Richard N.
President, Council on Foreign Relations

NL
Halberstadt, Victor
Professor of Economics, Leiden University

B
Hansen@ Jean-Pierre
CEO, Suez-Tractebel S.A.

A
Haselsteiner, Hans Peter
CEO, Bauholding Strabag SE (Societas Europea)

DK
Hedegaard, Connie
Minister for the Environment

USA
Holbrooke, Richard C.
Vice Chairman, Perseus

INT
Hoop Scheffer, Jaap G. de
Secretary General, NATO

USA
Hubbard, Allan B.
Assistant to the President for Economic Policy and Director of the National Economic Council

B
Huyghebaert, Jan
Chairman of the Board of Directors, KBC Group

USA
Johnson, James A.
Vice Chairman, Perseus LLC

INT
Jones, James L.
Supreme Allied Commander Euope, SHAPE

USA
Jordan, Jr.,Vernon E.
Senior Managing Director, Lazard Frères & Co. LLC

USA
Keane, John M.
President, GSI, LLC; General, US Army, Retired

GB
Kerr, John
Director, Shell, Rio Tinto, Scottish Americal Investment Trust

USA
Kissinger, Henry A.
Chairman, Kissinger Associates, Inc.

D
Kleinfeld, Klaus
President and CEO, Siemens AG

TR
Koç, Mustafa V.
Chairman, Koç Holding A.S.

D
Kopper, Hilmar
Chairman of the Supervisory Board, DaimlerChrysler AG

F
Kouchner, Bernard
Director "Santé et développement", CNAM

USA
Kravis, Henry R.
Founding Partner, Kohlberg Kravis Roberts & Co.

USA
Kravis, Marie-Josée
Senior Fellow, Hudson Institute, Inc.

INT
Kroes, Neelie
Commissioner, European Commission

CH
Kudelski, André
Chairman of the Board and CEO, Kudelski Group

F
Lamy, Pascal
President, Notre Europe; Former Commissioner, European Commission

USA
Ledeen, Michael A.
American Enterprise Institute

FIN
Liikanen, Erkki
Govemor and Chairman of the Board, Bank of Finland

N
Lundestad, Geir
Director, Norwegian Nobel Institute; Secretary, Norwegian Nobel Committee

USA
Luti, William J.
Deputy Under Secretary of Defense for Near Eastern and South Asian Affairs

DK
Lykketoft, Mogens
Chairman, Social Democratic Party

CDN
Manji, Irshad
Author/Founder of "Project Ijtihad”

USA
Mathews, Jessica T.
President, Carnegie Endowment for International Peace

CDN
Mau, Bruce
Bruce Mau Design

CDN
McKenna, Frank
Ambasssador to the US

USA
Medish, Mark C.
Akin Gump Strauss Hauer & Feld LLP

USA
Mehlman, Kenneth B.
Chairman, Republican National Committee

D
Merkel, Angela
Chairman, CDU; Chairman CDU/CSU-Fraction

SVK
Miklos, Ivan
Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance

F
Montbrial, Thierry de
President, French Institute of International Relations (IFRI)

INT
Monti, Mario
President, Bocconi University; Former Commissioner for Competition, European Commission

CDN
Munroe-Blum, Heather
Principal and Vice Chancellor, McGill University

N
Myklebust, Egil
Chairman of the Board of Directors, SAS

D
Nass, Matthias
Deputy Editor, Die Zeit

RUS
Nemirovskaya, Elena
Founder and Director, Moscow School of Political Studies

NL
Netherlands, H.M. tihe Queen of The


PL
Olechowski, Andrzej
Leader Civic Platform

FIN
Ollila, Jorma
Chairman of the Board and CEO, Nokia Corporation

INT
Padoa-Schioppa, Tommaso
Member of the Executive Board, European Central Bank

E
Palacio, Loyola de
President, Council on Foreign Relations, Partido Popular

Gk
Papandreou, George A.
President, Panhellenic Socialist Movement (PASOK)

USA
Pearl, Frank H.
Chairman and CEO, Perseus, LLC

USA
Pearlstine, Norman
Editor-in-Chief, Time Inc.

FIN
Pentikäinen, Mikael
President, Sanoma Corporation

USA
Perle, Richard N.
Resident Fellow, American Enterprise Institute for Public Policy Research

D
Pflüger, Friedbert
Member of Parliament, CDU/CSU Fraktion

B
Philippe, H.R.H. Prince


CDN
Prichard, J. Robert S.
President. Torstar Media Group and CEO, Torstar Corporation

IN'T
Rato y Figaredo, Rodrigo de
Managing Director, IMF

CDN
Reisman, Heather
President and CEO, Indigo Books & Music Inc.

USA
Rockefeller, David
Member, JP Morgan International Council

USA
Rodin, Judith
President, The Rockefeller Foundation

E
Rodriguez Inciarte, Matias
Executive Vice Chairman, Grupo Santander

USA
Ross, Dennis B.
Director, The Washington Institute for Near East Policy

F
Roy, Olivier
Senior Researcher, CNRS

P
Sarmento, Nuno Morais
Former Minister of State and of Presidency; Member of Parliament

I
Scaroni, Paolo
Chief Executive Officer and Managing Director, Enel S.p.A.

D
Schily, Otto
Minister of the Interior

A
Scholten, Rudolf
Member of the Board of Executive Directors, Oesterreichische Kontrollbank AG

D
Schrempp , Jürgen E.
Chairman of the Board of Management, DaimlerChrysler AG

D
Schulz, Ekkehard D.
Chairman of the Executive Board, ThyssenKrupp AG

E
Sebastián Gascón, Miguel
Chief Economic Adviser to Prime Minister

ISR
Sharansky, Natan
Former Minister for Jerusalem & Diaspora Affairs

I
Siniscalco, Domenico
Minister for Economy and Finance

GB
Skidelsky, Robert
Professor of Political Economy, Warwick University

E
Spain, H.M. the Queen of


IRL
Sutherland, Peter D.
Chairman, Goldman Sachs International; Chairman, BP p.l.c.

PL
Szwajcowski, Jacek,
CEO, Polska Grupa Farmaceutyczna

FIN
Tiilikainen, Teija H.
Director, University of Helsinki, Network for European Studies

NL
Tilmant, Michel
Chairman, ING N.V.

INT
Trichet, Jean-Claude
Governor, European Central Bank

TR
Ülsever, Cüneyt,
Columnist, Hürriyet

CH
Vasella, Daniel L.
Chairman and CEO, Novartis AG

NL
Veer, Jeroen van der
Chairman Committee of.Managing Directors, Royal Dutch Shell Group

USA
Vinocur, John
Senior Correspondent, International Herald Tribune

S
Wallenberg, Jacob
Chairman of the Board, Investor AB; Vice-Chairman, SEB

USA
Warner, Mark R.
Governor of Virginia

GB
Weinberg, Peter
CEO, Goldman Sachs International

D
Wissmann, Matthias
Member of Parliament, CDU/CSU Fraktion

GB
Wolf, Martin H.
Asscociate Editor and Economics Commentator, The Financial Times

INT/USA
Wolfensohn, James D.
President, The World Bank

USA
Wolfowitz, Paul
President designate, The World Bank

USA
Zakaria, Fareed
Editor, Newsweek International

D
Zumwinkel, Klaus
Chairman of the Board of Management, Deutsche Post AG


Reporters


GB
Micklethwait, R. John
United States Editor, The Economist

GB
Wooldridge, Adrian D.
Foreign Correspondent, The Economist

Courtesy http://www.fosar-bludorf.com/bilderberger/Liste.htm

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles...erberglist.htm

The objective information depends far too much upon the subjectivity and political leanings of the author, and the subjective information is far too biased; yet, there is certainly a possibility, however minute, that the conspiracy could very well exist.

[Justinian]

There probably is a global conspiracy, I'll grant; but I find it far too hard to believe that this conspiracy is in charge of every major government in the world, and has control over the weather, is throwing hurricanes at the US, intends to declare martial law, or is actually going to come to anything whatsoever at all.

[Pra]

There probably is a global conspiracy, I'll grant; but I find it far too hard to believe that this conspiracy is in charge of every major government in the world, and has control over the weather, is throwing hurricanes at the US, intends to declare martial law, or is actually going to come to anything whatsoever at all.

That the conspiracy can mastermind such natural disasters is specious, but there might be some true plot in the machinations of the powerful...who knows?

[PacSubCom]

As I said in the other thread, there is footage of the Hotel where the meeting happened. You could see John Elkann (Fiat) and Paul Wolfowitz there. It was broadcasted by CNN.

So it is quite likely that there was a meeting. And two on the list where identified.

[Pra]

As I said in the other thread, there is footage of the Hotel where the meeting happened. You could see John Elkann (Fiat) and Paul Wolfowitz there. It was broadcasted by CNN.

So it is quite likely that there was a meeting. And two on the list where identified.

Unfortunately, without a written documentation of the meeting itself, we can only speculate on the true discourse.

[nahirean]

I am a firm beleiver in what people refer to as "Conspiracy." The reason behind my position is history. History is absolutely laden with conspiracies. If you beleive that middle-eastern hijackers attacked the US on September 11th, by definition - you beleive in a conspiracy theory. The term "conspiracy theory/theorists" seems to be a deliberate position to discount any alternate idea no matter how much evidence there is to support it.

[Tom Paine]

I'd say there was a plot. And it requires these conspiracy theories. The government wants to stay in power, and the establishment wants to stay, well, established. A harmony is reached whereby the government changes its name but not the policies (can you see any difference between the Tories and New Thatcherites, sorry I mean New Labour?). This is also becaus the voters are scared of change, and because they accept this life rather than going for a completely unknown and different political system.

Conspiracy theories are a wonderful thing; they keep the people laughing at outlandish ideas and so on. The government or establishment doesn't create them, but rather than ignoring it denies them... knowing human nature is to assume that they are lying. Why deny when ignoring them works so much better? Because it gives us lot something to do other than considering real change in the nation.

[Tom Paine]

Which tells us nothing, really, beyond a meeting happened. Are we going to read sinister intent into every meeting between important officials? What about the G8?

[PacSubCom]

Which tells us nothing, really, beyond a meeting happened. Are we going to read sinister intent into every meeting between important officials? What about the G8?

Unfortunately, without a written documentation of the meeting itself, we can only speculate on the true discourse.

That is true of course, we don't know what they are talking about. About the "sinister intent", I'm not so sure.

Here we have corporate, party and government people (often high up), who have regular meetings. Now, these meetings are not "secret" in a way that they are meeting by night, in a thunderstorm with sunglasses an white hoods on. If you happen to be there at this hotel what do you see? You see Paul Wolfowitz running around in the lobby, meeting with some suits. The chance you recognize them, know their names as a normal citizen are slim, especially the if they are from another country. In other words, without footage, people who happen to be present at the same time will find this noteworthy, but not especially strange.

With footage, like a camera at the entrance, people (investigative journalists) can identify this and might start to ask questions. And if this was in the Newspapers, many many people might ask what they are doing there. Which leads to parliament members all over the world asking what they mght be doing there. And judges, state attorneys and so on.

Now, all we have is a list from a the crazy prisonplanet and some footage of a few seconds aired weeks or months later, very probably just ONCE. You know, G8 is publitized widely. But this is completely absent, if you count the size, the participants and the regularity of the meeting in. Reporting only once on an event is, for TV, not reporting on it at all. I see there is a short article on bbc.co.uk, too. The internet is full of it, of course.

Why isn't there more reporting? Mainstream reporting?

What is the Bilderberg Group?

In my view, it is a global meeting of minds. As suggested in the bbc article, the confidentiality of the meetings ensures that attendees can speak their minds freely, without fearing repercussions. If there was more publicity on the meetings, this would be ever more difficult to maintain, as ever more nosy people are attracted. You cannot keep anything secret to the REAL press, the meeting is simply too large for that. Why are they meeting at all? Because in a globalized world, you need to talk to each other, so you set up a fair. A fair where the exchange of ideas can take place, ideas on how to manage the globalized world. This is no centralized cabal "running the world", as it is sure that each of the participants has his own agenda, it is rather managing the world for mutual profit.

With "managing the world" I do not mean the control of governments and parliaments, but to exercise control, to influence the matters that these people have control over, be it the world bank, Daimler Chrysler or Fiat, for mutual profit. They of course also make up their minds on large scale economic policies, and then the members go out to their organizations/countries and start lobbying for these policies, using the connections they have. This is indistiguishable form their normal work, however it is known and supported by the other members. It is not circumventing democracy, rather, using whatever democratic or un-democratic structures in place, but together.

Considering the cast of these events, it REALLY is quite an effort to not notice that this mutual profit is not necessarily profiting democracy or the well-being of ordinary citizens. Why do you need confidential meetings? To speak freely without repercussions. If they are pure of heart, why do they fear repercussions? Why do they fear the great beast, their own population?

No a sinister intent is not a given, but as a democrat you need to be wary of what the powerful are doing. And every large scale meeting with such secret going-on's is way suspicious. Of course, you have to see it as part of the larger scheme of things. These guys are meeting on other occasions too, no one would notice if two or three of them were dining together one evening. It's the scale. It's the secrecy. And the members. And the press, who for whatever reasons (er, mutual profit?) chooses to let this slip.

[Intru]

The only conspirecy here is the FBi killing Ojedas Rios because he is a terrorist, wtf lets be random

[Tom Paine]

Conspiracy theory has come to mean things over than the literal meaning though, and is applied as such only in certain situations.

[nahirean]

Right, which I mean to say is a certain hinderance in the quest for truth on any level.

[Sulla]

Hah... I love all this stuff .

Do you know why I don't believe in conspiracies... It's simple. The average government department runs something like 'yes minister'. They couldn't boil an egg let alone organise and execute the plans of a highly complex international conspiracy. Do you know how many people would need to be involved in this. Hell, even the departments who handle top secret information tend to leak like sieves when they are doing unethical stuff. You just couldn't keep this a secret for long with so many people knowing.

Please people... stop giving these organisations the supreme compliment of attributing to them qualities of foresight, incredible strategic ability and organisational abilities second to none. In actual fact I tend to think governments and agencies stumble blindly from one disaster to the next with little or no foresight let alone having any appreciation of the consequences of their actions (all of which would be needed in abundance to organise an international conspiracy) .

[Belisarius]

Its not the governments, its the Illuminati who feed us through processed packaged TV dinners and use politicians as facade for true plotting.

The Illuminati are so smart, we have never seen them nor do we know if they exist, but they do... because the voices in my head tell me so and tell me to jump.



Sarcasm off.

[Tom Paine]

Not really; everyone knows and uses its current meaning, and it has stopped being an object in the path to truth because it is applied to the David Ickes of this world.

[nahirean]

Not really; everyone knows and uses its current meaning, and it has stopped being an object in the path to truth because it is applied to the David Ickes of this world.

I completely disagree with you. How many times have you heard people written off without a side glance being called "Conspiracy theorists?" Several times these people actually have factual data to support thier claims.

[Tom Paine]

I completely disagree with you. How many times have you heard people written off without a side glance being called "Conspiracy theorists?" Several times these people actually have factual data to support thier claims.

I've never seen it happen to anyone with evidence that is not both circumstancial and interpreted very loosely and with the aim of conspiracy. Or simply wrong evidence.

[nahirean]

I've never seen it happen to anyone with evidence that is not both circumstancial and interpreted very loosely and with the aim of conspiracy. Or simply wrong evidence.

I suggest you attempt to view the documentary called, "Arithmetic, Population and Energy - The Forgotten Fundamentals." There were several doctors and professors who are stating the obvious about expoential growth against a finite resource who were ridiculed and dismissed. But thier predictions are coming true every single day because they were based upon simple arithmetic.

Now I don't want to open a can of worms, but the Kennedy assassination is another strong case. While I understand that some people who claim conspiracy are just flat out incredulous, (see, Jim Garrison) there are others with hard evidence to support several claims they make. I'd be happy to sort them out for you and provide them to you. One person in particular has hard mathematical data combined with photo imaging that prooves that a shot came from the front. If I were to state, "I beleive that the was a conspiracy involving the JFK murder" citing some factual data, I'd still be written off as a "Conspiracy theorist" or a "whacko." It's a term that has forced people to have closed minds to nearly any theory that challenges "official accounts." In my opinion this is incredibly detrimental to the pursuit of truth.

[Pra]

I suggest you attempt to view the documentary called, "Arithmetic, Population and Energy - The Forgotten Fundamentals." There were several doctors and professors who are stating the obvious about expoential growth against a finite resource who were ridiculed and dismissed. But thier predictions are coming true every single day because they were based upon simple arithmetic.

Now I don't want to open a can of worms, but the Kennedy assassination is another strong case. While I understand that some people who claim conspiracy are just flat out incredulous, (see, Jim Garrison) there are others with hard evidence to support several claims they make. I'd be happy to sort them out for you and provide them to you. One person in particular has hard mathematical data combined with photo imaging that prooves that a shot came from the front. If I were to state, "I beleive that the was a conspiracy involving the JFK murder" citing some factual data, I'd still be written off as a "Conspiracy theorist" or a "whacko." It's a term that has forced people to have closed minds to nearly any theory that challenges "official accounts." In my opinion this is incredibly detrimental to the pursuit of truth.

So what are your views on the Kennedy assassination?

[Tom Paine]

Then how do they survive cultural and political shofts so well, for example the switch to Thatcherism in 1979?