Normandy: On the Dacian Origins of the Normans

[Getwulf]

“Thus, spread over the plentiful space from the Danube to the neighborhood of the Scythian Black Sea, do there inhabit fierce and barbarous nations, which are said to have burst forth in manifold variety like a swarm of bees from a honeycomb or a sword from a sheath, as is the barbarian custom, from the island of Scania, surrounded in different directions by the ocean. For indeed there is there a tract for the very many people of Alania, and the extremely well-supplied region of Dacia, and the very extensive passage of Greece. Dacia is the middle-most of these. Protected by very high alps in the manner of a crown and after the fashion of a city. With Mars' forewarning, raging warlike peoples inhabit those tortuous bends of extensive size, namely the Getae, also known as Goths,” (Gesta Normannorum, Dudo of St. Quentin)

First I have to comment that the passage saying that the barbarians came from the “island of Scania” is based on the mistaken belief that the Goths originate in Scandinavia. In reality the origin of the Goths is in Moldova.

If we read the Gesta Norm. in its entirety we find that Rollo (the founder of Normandy) is exclusively called “Dacian”. I can not understand why an entire fake history has been created around the place of origin of the Normans. The Gesta Norm. was commissioned by the Norman nobles themselves and yet its contents remain “taboo”.

Regards,

Getwulf of Dacia

I need to emphasize that according to the Gesta Normannorum the origin of the Normans is in modern day Romania. I consider the Scandinavian origin of the Normans to be the false history.

[Lysimachus]

That's odd. The Normans descend from Vikings, and the Vikings are from Scandinavia. The only contact the Vikings had with Eastern Europe was in their advances down there, they didn't descend from Romania at all. Seriously, I can't be bothered with these stupid balkan threads.

[Getwulf]

Well luckily Dudo of St. Quentin wasn't from the "Balkans". He was a Norman historian commissioned by the House of Normandy. Do you have any time for what he has to say on the subject...?

[Lysimachos11]

Perhaps a link to the Gesta Normannorum would be in place? I find it unlikely the Normans came all the way over land from Romania to a corner of France. I find the general theory of their origins much more logical, ie. that they descend from Scandinavian sea-farers, which more easily explains their settlement on a corner of France, and perhaps their subsequent naval expansion into the Mediterranean.

[Odovacar]

Like the franks came from Sicambria? ...

[Getwulf]

Like the franks came from Sicambria? ...

...LOL...

Funny because I learned at university that they came from what is today Russia...

[Getwulf]

Sure Lysimachos... Your request is reasonable...

This is a link to the Gesta Normannorum...

http://www.the-orb.net/orb_done/dudo/dudindexe.html

[DisgruntledGoat]

First I have to comment that the passage saying that the barbarians came from the “island of Scania” is based on the mistaken belief that the Goths originate in Scandinavia. In reality the origin of the Goths is in Moldova.

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaa? The goths came from Gotland, in Scandinavia. Why does this thread reek of nationalist historical re-writing.

[Lysimachus]

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaa? The goths came from Gotland, in Scandinavia. Why does this thread reek of nationalist historical re-writing.

But I thought everyone knew how everything important came from the Balkans!

You know, things like petty countries arguing about their dubious claims to things that never happened

[Getwulf]

But I thought everyone knew how everything important came from the Balkans!

You know, things like petty countries arguing about their dubious claims to things that never happened

Concerning the Gesta Normannorum no one is arguing about anything. I'm just reporting what is written down.

Ice monkey's, evolution and species. WTF.

I don't even know what you are trying to say. You can basically trace the spread of gothic culture from the island of gotland, to southern scandinavia, northern poland and further south. Starting in about 300BC. To claim that they originated in Moldova and spread their culture in reverse is silly. Having the gothic culture show up in south eastern europe AFTER north eastern europe while originating in the south MAKES NO SENSE.

This is rather odd considering the fact that they were living in Moesia since before the Trojan War and that the Gothic king Telefus married the sister of Priam... But hey whatever...! GOOO NORDICAAAA!!!!

[Getwulf]

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaa? The goths came from Gotland, in Scandinavia. Why does this thread reek of nationalist historical re-writing.

Well speaking of "nationalistic historical re-writing" perhaps you can explain to me how a group of people could have evolved on the island of Gotland separate from all else. Or perhaps Gotland means southern Scandinavia? As such, can you please give the species of ice monkey that the Goths evolved from, along with their geneologica records?

[DisgruntledGoat]

Well speaking of "nationalistic historical re-writing" perhaps you can explain to me how a group of people could have evolved on the island of Gotland separate from all else. Or perhaps Gotland means southern Scandinavia? As such, can you please give the species of ice monkey that the Goths evolved from, along with their geneologica records?

Ice monkey's, evolution and species. WTF.

I don't even know what you are trying to say. You can basically trace the spread of gothic culture from the island of gotland, to southern scandinavia, northern poland and further south. Starting in about 300BC. To claim that they originated in Moldova and spread their culture in reverse is silly. Having the gothic culture show up in south eastern europe AFTER north eastern europe while originating in the south MAKES NO SENSE.

[DisgruntledGoat]

I'm not Nordic. Your accusation of nationalistic motivations is wrong and frankly pathetic. This thread should be closed as theres no history actually happening in it.

[Getwulf]

As for the "ice monkey" comment I was just wondering how the Goths evolved in Scandinavia...? What species of ice "hominid" lived there and how did it turn into the Goths...? Was it Homo Sapiens Gothicus? Perhaps it was Homo Sapiens Nordicus!?

The first trace of Gothic culture in Gotland appears somewhere around the 7th-8th C. AD...

I'm not Nordic. Your accusation of nationalistic motivations is wrong and frankly pathetic. This thread should be closed as theres no history actually happening in it.

Really...?

What do you mean there is no history happening here? Did I not provide a historical quote at the begining with an author...?

[Maximinus Thrax]

Somebody has made a duplicate account. It's that you Kirov123?

[Lysimachus]

Somebody has made a duplicate account. It's that you Kirov123?

The thought never crossed my mind. Though now that you mention it, a mod should trace the IP and infract the culprit for disruptive posting. Oh how I crave for a (temporary) ban on Balkan threads, they're just so annoying.

[DisgruntledGoat]

You do realize that the quote you produce basically just says

"There are barbarians from Scandinavia that inhabit Dacia, the are known as the Getea or Goths."

Seeing that at the time of writing the Goths (migrating from Scadinavia) had been in the region for some time it seems to me to confirm exactly what I have been saying all along. Oh right I forgot your blanket, "I am going to contradict everyhitng I just posted" statement directly following the quote.

[Getwulf]

You do realize that the quote you produce basically just says

"There are barbarians from Scandinavia that inhabit Dacia, the are known as the Getea or Goths."

Seeing that at the time of writing the Goths (migrating from Scadinavia) had been in the region for some time it seems to me to confirm exactly what I have been saying all along. Oh right I forgot your blanket, "I am going to contradict everyhitng I just posted" statement directly following the quote.

Sure I realize that... Do you realize that this has more to do with the history of Jordanes and the politics of the period. You see the original version of the "Getica" (the real history of the Goths) was destroyed. Jordanes creates another history for the Goths with the place of origin in Scandinavia. According to his work the Goths migrated from Scandinavia a long, long time before 1500 BC... His claim is impossible to verify. However, we can verify the town of "Birka" in Gotland being the first town in the north with about 200 inhabitants. Sure enough after 7-8 th C. AD the "Goths" make an archeological appearance there.

[Karklos]

What utter nonsense. There is vast amounts of evidence to the Normans Scandinavian heritage. How for example do you explain away the fact that they had Scandinavian names and initially spoke Norse? Your suggestion has no basis and is quite offensive.

[CiviC]

The claim that Normans descend from the lands of Dacia is unheard in Romania.

There was a claim in the history of Goths by a contemporary author (can't remember his name right now - Edit : he was Jordanes) that Goths are the Gets (Gets being the Greek name for Dacians - their name resembles with Geats). But this was also a fictious history that tried to give Goths a prestigious history - like some genealogies that linked Clovis with Troy or something like this.

Just to know, Romanians don't suffer the complex of claiming descend from Vikings.