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  1. #1
    Thanatos's Avatar Now Is Not the Time
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    Default Should this Orca be destroyed?

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8539419.stm

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    A killer whale which pulled its trainer to her death at a Florida marine park was probably attracted by her long ponytail, experts have told US media.

    Dawn Brancheau's hair swung out in front of the orca as she ended a training session at SeaWorld Orlando and the whale grabbed it, they said.


    Horrified tourists using the viewing glass could see the 12,000lb (5.9tn) whale attack Ms Brancheau underwater.



    The park is to keep the animal despite its part in this and two other deaths.


    SeaWorld said its staff would continue to interact with the whale, named Tilikum, despite calls to release or destroy it.



    But all orca shows were suspended after Wednesday's death as the park reviewed its safety procedures.



    Ms Brancheau's sister, Diane Gross, said her sister, 40, had loved the park's whales as though they were her children.



    "It was her dream job since she was nine years old," she added, speaking of her sister's ambition to work at SeaWorld.



    'After a good session'

    Chuck Tompkins, chief of animal training at SeaWorld Orlando, said the casual swing of the trainer's ponytail was the likely cause of the attack.



    "What we have found out is that Dawn had just finished up a very good session with this animal," he told ABC television's Good Morning America programme on Thursday.



    "She was interacting with him, petting him on the nose. Dawn had very long hair in a ponytail. That ponytail had swung in front of him. He grabbed her by the hair and pulled her underwater and held her underwater."


    Thad Lacinak, a former head trainer at SeaWorld who coached Ms Brancheau, said on Friday after viewing video of the attack that he believed she had made a simple mistake.



    "She wasn't, obviously, watching what she was doing with her ponytail and the ponytail drifted into the water," he told ABC.



    "Dawn, if she was standing here with me right now, would tell you that it was her mistake in allowing that to happen," he added.



    An eyewitness, Sue Nichols, saw Ms Brancheau petting the whale and talking to it.



    "Then all of a sudden he just reached up," she said.



    "He got her in the water, and he took her underwater, and he had her under for quite a while. He came up out of the water, and he had her in his mouth."



    An alarm was sounded and park employees scattered around the pool with a net as audience members were rushed away, she added.



    Third death


    Earlier, Mr Tompkins said Tilikum would not survive in the wild because the animal had been captive for so long.



    He added that destroying the whale was not an option because it was an important part of the breeding programme at SeaWorld and a companion to seven other whales there.



    However, this is the third death involving the orca.



    In 1991, trainer Keltie Lee Byrne fell into a tank holding Tillikum and two other whales at Sealand of the Pacific in Victoria, Canada.



    An inquest found the whales had prevented her from climbing out of the tank and ruled her death an accident.



    At SeaWorld Orlando, in 1999, the body of Daniel Dukes, 27, was found naked, draped across the whale's body.



    He had reportedly got past security, remaining in the park after it had closed, and wearing only swimming trunks, he either jumped, fell or was pulled into the frigid water of the huge tank.



    An inquest ruled that he had died of hypothermia but officials also said it appeared Tilikum had bitten the man and torn off his trunks, apparently believing he was a toy to play with.


    What a horrible way to die.
    Last edited by Thanatos; February 26, 2010 at 12:22 PM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Should this Orca be destroyed?

    Think there's a clue in the name, really.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Should this Orca be destroyed?

    An apex predator many times our weight and size, dangerous?

    It's tragic, but part of the risk working with such animals.
    Moreover, whenever fluorescent square motion is required, it may also be employed in conjunction with the drawn reciprocation dingle arm, to reduce sinusoidal depleneration.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Should this Orca be destroyed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yaga Shu Ra View Post
    An apex predator many times our weight and size, dangerous?

    It's tragic, but part of the risk working with such animals.

    That. While I don't think the orca should be destroyed, they should probably consider not using it in their performances from now on. He seems a little too playful.



  5. #5
    Fiyenyaa's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: Should this Orca be destroyed?

    This is the third death? They need to stop mucking around with it, using it as a tourist attraction.
    I don't know what I'd do though - I wouldn't want to have it killed, but it can't keep being given opportunities to kill people.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Should this Orca be destroyed?

    I say let the Japanese deal with it
    "When I die, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like Fidel Castro, not screaming in terror, like his victims."

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  7. #7

    Default Re: Should this Orca be destroyed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phier View Post
    I say let the Japanese deal with it
    My first thought, too

    Still, it would probably be good to send it to a zoo or just dump it into the ocean, where it belongs. Alternatively they could put up a plaque beside its tank, saying "The real Killer Whale"...

  8. #8

    Default Re: Should this Orca be destroyed?




    "Mors Certa, Hora Incerta."

    "We are a brave people of a warrior race, descendants of the illustrious Romans, who made the world tremor. And in this way we will make it known to the whole world that we are true Romans and their descendants, and our name will never die and we will make proud the memories of our parents." ~ Despot Voda 1561

    "The emperor Trajan, after conquering this country, divided it among his soldiers and made it into a Roman colony, so that these Romanians are descendants, as it is said, of these ancient colonists, and they preserve the name of the Romans." ~ 1532, Francesco della Valle Secretary of Aloisio Gritti, a natural son to Doge

  9. #9
    Monarchist's Avatar Civitate
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    Default Re: Should this Orca be destroyed?

    I believe it should be shot with a thousand dull harpoons and be allowed to bleed to death on sun-baked concrete.

    Dumb, mindless piece of garbage.
    "Pauci viri sapientiae student."
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  10. #10

    Default Re: Should this Orca be destroyed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Monarchist View Post
    I believe it should be shot with a thousand dull harpoons and be allowed to bleed to death on sun-baked concrete.

    Dumb, mindless piece of garbage.
    This HAS to be an online persona. There is no other way people can come out with such crap.

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  11. #11
    Tiberios's Avatar Le Paysan Soleil
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    Default Re: Should this Orca be destroyed?

    No they should'nt kill it. But they should stop trying to use it in shows. It's clearly not suited to this.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Should this Orca be destroyed?

    So these Orcas, they do not kill people with their teeth or tails, or crush them to death. They do not make a bloody mess. They hinder you when you want to get out of the water, or catch your hair and let you drown. As if the bastard knows that if he had bitten her into two pieces and swallowed her intestines, that bad PR like that could cause his end. No, he's smarter than that. He knows his captors, and he can wait. Vengeance is a dish best served cold.

  13. #13
    cupoftea's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: Should this Orca be destroyed?

    Killing it seems stupid, it's just to make ourself and our lust for revenge feel better. It's an animal, and it has an instinct, and it handled by that instinct. You don't kill a lion because a human came into it's territory, while he clearly knows he shouldn't be doing that. Then who's to blame? The lion that was defending it's territory, or the human, who knew the dangers and still thought he could get away with it. I'm not defending animals, and I also think this is tragic and should never have happened, but she knew the risks of her job, killing the whale would be stupid.

  14. #14
    Monarchist's Avatar Civitate
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    Default Re: Should this Orca be destroyed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mythos View Post
    This HAS to be an online persona. There is no other way people can come out with such crap.
    "We really don't have to deal with his opinions if we can dismiss him as inauthentic!"

    It is a shame that I cannot meet you and shake your hand in public, my friend. I would most certainly confirm to you that I believe human beings can do whatever we want to animals. They are nothing, and we are everything. I see animals as Hitler saw the Jews.

    Of course, that's all just flashy controversy.
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  15. #15
    Horsa's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: Should this Orca be destroyed?

    Its there own faults for messing around with these poor animals, its so unnatural. Humankind has much to answer for.

    Quote Originally Posted by Monarchist View Post
    Why should we do that? It's fun to kill big, brutal, mindless animals when they can't do anything but flail.
    That is disgusting, I expected better coming from you...

  16. #16
    Monarchist's Avatar Civitate
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    Default Re: Should this Orca be destroyed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Víkingr View Post
    Its there own faults for messing around with these poor animals, its so unnatural. Humankind has much to answer for.
    Are you a vegetarian? I've never heard such words from a religious person.

    That is disgusting, I expected better coming from you...
    I expect more coming from a Christian! You believe that God gave us dominion over the animals, don't you? They are flies to our hand, and we are flies to God's hand. It is a perfect ascending pyramid to the Highest Heaven. As God can abolish us and send us into oblivion at any second, so too can we with the mindless animals. Symbolism, my dear fellow!
    "Pauci viri sapientiae student."
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  17. #17
    Horsa's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: Should this Orca be destroyed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Monarchist View Post
    Are you a vegetarian? I've never heard such words from a religious person.

    I expect more coming from a Christian! You believe that God gave us dominion over the animals, don't you? They are flies to our hand, and we are flies to God's hand. It is a perfect ascending pyramid to the Highest Heaven.
    What kind of bible have you been reading?

    Yes, it states that we have dominion over the animals, its also states that they are gods creation and are special.

    First of all, the bible says that animal will be in heaven.
    Isa 65:25 5 The wolf and the lamb will feed together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox, but dust will be the serpent's food. They will neither harm nor destroy on all my holy mountain," says the LORD.

    Psalm 145:-9-10,13,15-21 God loves all His creation and has made plans for all His children and the lesser creatures to enjoy His eternal Kingdom.

    Romans 8:21-22 says "Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now"

    As for the treatment of animals, the bible is very clear.
    "A righteous man cares for the needs of his animal, but the kindest acts of the wicked are cruel" (Proverbs 12:10).

    Proverbs 27:23: "Be sure you know the condition of your flocks, give careful attention to your herds."

    Exodus 23:12 - "Six days thou shalt do thy work, and on the seventh day thou shalt
    rest: that thine ox and thine ass may rest."

    Ezekiel 4:2-4 "Should not the shepherds feed the flocks? Ye eat the fat, and ye
    clothe you with the wool, ye kill them that are fed: but ye feed not
    the flock. The diseased have ye not strengthened, neither have ye
    healed that which was sick, neither have ye bound up that which was
    broken, neither have ye brought again that which was driven away,
    neither have ye sought that which was lost."

    No, I am not a vegetarian, because in the fall things have changed, its has become a necessity to eat certain animals. This will not be done in heaven though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Monarchist View Post
    As God can abolish us and send us into oblivion at any second, so too can we with the mindless animals. Symbolism, my dear fellow!
    But we are not gods, we do not have his perfect wisdom and mercy.
    Last edited by Horsa; February 27, 2010 at 06:43 AM.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Should this Orca be destroyed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Monarchist View Post
    I believe it should be shot with a thousand dull harpoons and be allowed to bleed to death on sun-baked concrete.

    Dumb, mindless piece of garbage.
    See this is where you are wrong. They are not "dumb" or "mindless", they are animals going by instinct. These animals group together to hunt, and socialise, and far from dumb.

    I will admit, they are s of the animal kingdom, but it doesn't deserve to be killed. It acted on instinct, and what would you expect, especially for the fact it is a predator.

    I think it should be released.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Should this Orca be destroyed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Monarchist View Post
    I believe it should be shot with a thousand dull harpoons and be allowed to bleed to death on sun-baked concrete.

    Dumb, mindless piece of garbage.


    This guy has got to be somebody's clever alt. This stuff is way too good comedy.



    If he's not, than his moral compass is wildly skewed.




    Also, humanity is not the apex of evolution. We are a successful branch on the tree of life, but that's it. Drop any one of us naked in the ocean, and we'd die within a day. Drop us naked into the middle of the Amazon rain forest, and we'd die within the week. Drop us off in the Sahara and we'd last about 3 days. I imagine there are a number of animals that would last much longer.


    The whale is a killer whale. There is a clue int he name as to what it does. Nobody should be surprised if it occasionally lives up to its name.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Should this Orca be destroyed?

    If they are going to deal with animals of that size who are essentially slave to their own instincts, then they should know the risks. Even dolphins can kill people.
    "Romans not only easily conquered those who fought by cutting, but mocked them too. For the cut, even delivered with force, frequently does not kill, when the vital parts are protected by equipment and bone. On the contrary, a point brought to bear is fatal at two inches; for it is necessary that whatever vital parts it penetrates, it is immersed. Next, when a cut is delivered, the right arm and flank are exposed. However, the point is delivered with the cover of the body and wounds the enemy before he sees it."

    - Flavius Vegetius Renatus (in Epitoma Rei Militari, ca. 390)

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