Hellas1's Review of NTW vs. ETW- Ha.Cha.Cha.Cha!

[hellas1]

Dissenters: Unite and rally under my review banner 'cause I'm not B.S. 'in anyone.

I ACTUALLY purchased NTW, considering that it is the "full" version of what ETW should have been IMHPO & I wanted to play this for myself and report to you folks if I was a fool or not for buying it.

I took a hit for you folks in a sense by doing so! So don't slam me for buying NTW.

Hellas1's NTW vs. ETW review:
BAI in custom battles: NO melee bug, random squares or chicken dance (THANK GOD) no B.S. it's true.
Note: The range of lethality of muskets seems dubious, I believe (I'm not a Napoleonic expert!)

CAI: TBA however a cursory glimpse gave me the sense that it is a tad ULTRA aggressive, a bit more than ETW.

Graphics: Better than ETW, obviously

Historical battles: Nice (Napoleon's battles, approx. 9 I believe) Better than 4-5 in ETW, larger also.

Naval warfare: Same w/minor tweaks

Physics engine: More realistic than ETW, most of you probably read about "craters in the ground" and fatigue, etc. It's all in NTW.

Till next time,
hellas1...........BTW, I'm STILL expecting a ETW BAI fix, not to mention "other" ETW needed fixes.

[Blofeld2k]

εύγε hellas!

Nice to take one for the team, had a thought like this myself actually.

Please report on the CAI, how does it handle diplomacy offers? Does it attack out of the blue? Does it seem to do things more logically than in ETW?

And also, what difficulty are you playing on?

Do try hands-off battles to see if the AI manages to beat you.

[Centurion Legio IX Hispana]

Dissenters: Unite and rally under my review banner 'cause I'm not B.S. 'in anyone.

I ACTUALLY purchased NTW, considering that it is the "full" version of what ETW should have been IMHPO & I wanted to play this for myself and report to you folks if I was a fool or not for buying it.

I took a hit for you folks in a sense by doing so! So don't slam me for buying NTW.

Hellas1's NTW vs. ETW review:
BAI in custom battles: NO melee bug, random squares or chicken dance (THANK GOD) no B.S. it's true.
Note: The range of lethality of muskets seems dubious, I believe (I'm not a Napoleonic expert!)

CAI: TBA however a cursory glimpse gave me the sense that it is a tad ULTRA aggressive, a bit more than ETW.

Graphics: Better than ETW, obviously

Historical battles: Nice (Napoleon's battles, approx. 9 I believe) Better than 4-5 in ETW, larger also.

Naval warfare: Same w/minor tweaks

Physics engine: More realistic than ETW, most of you probably read about "craters in the ground" and fatigue, etc. It's all in NTW.

Till next time,
hellas1...........BTW, I'm STILL expecting a ETW BAI fix, not to mention "other" ETW needed fixes.

Well, I didn't expect this from you. In all the discussions you were the most critic against CA (even more than me and Humble). Anyway I'm glad you didn't forget there's also an ETW forum . Thanks for the review, it's good news.

[Lord Nova]

Dissenters: Unite and rally under my review banner 'cause I'm not B.S. 'in anyone.

I ACTUALLY purchased NTW, considering that it is the "full" version of what ETW should have been IMHPO & I wanted to play this for myself and report to you folks if I was a fool or not for buying it.

I took a hit for you folks in a sense by doing so! So don't slam me for buying NTW.

Hellas1's NTW vs. ETW review:
BAI in custom battles: NO melee bug, random squares or chicken dance (THANK GOD) no B.S. it's true.
Note: The range of lethality of muskets seems dubious, I believe (I'm not a Napoleonic expert!)

CAI: TBA however a cursory glimpse gave me the sense that it is a tad ULTRA aggressive, a bit more than ETW.

Graphics: Better than ETW, obviously

Historical battles: Nice (Napoleon's battles, approx. 9 I believe) Better than 4-5 in ETW, larger also.

Naval warfare: Same w/minor tweaks

Physics engine: More realistic than ETW, most of you probably read about "craters in the ground" and fatigue, etc. It's all in NTW.

Till next time,
hellas1...........BTW, I'm STILL expecting a ETW BAI fix, not to mention "other" ETW needed fixes.

Confirmed. I do wonder however how good the NTW AI is compared to Empire since right no Empire's AI is basically bugged. NTW BAI seems to be the Empire AI without the stupid blobbing issues or melee bug. It also doesn't constantly send cavalry to attack cannons and does a better job at flanking. However this is no the Super BAI that was promised by CA for Empire, it is however adequate in the way that Rome BAI and Kingdoms BAI was adequate.

The AI will form a line and fight you mostly head on, no fancy movements on the battlefield (similar to Rome) except this time when the armies meet up the AI gets it's share of kills. A human player will still beat the AI however but that's why we have battle difficulty handicaps (the AI is actually solid on Hard now).

Also the AI can use fire and advance effectively (which has been altered and works much better now).

The AI also places cannon better and rarely behind a hill it can't shoot over. This still happens though but not with the frequency as I saw in Empire.

The AI will not use trenches just like in Empire and instead does the same dumb tactic of using stakes and crippling it's artillery in a defencive structure.

I haven't done any sieges. There are very few cities with forts so I can't comment on whether sieges are better. Honestly I don't care cause if sieges are still awful, we'll just mod those out anyways.

Killrates per volley are much higher due to Rifles. There are some Musket units in Italy campaign but for the most part everyone is using Rifles which explains the new range/effectiveness. Frontal assaults are now suicide where as they would be more effective in musket era.

εύγε hellas!

Nice to take one for the team, had a thought like this myself actually.

Please report on the CAI, how does it handle diplomacy offers? Does it attack out of the blue? Does it seem to do things more logically than in ETW?

And also, what difficulty are you playing on?

I've just beaten Italy and Egypt on Normal/normal and now I'm starting a Coalition campaign as France (same difficulty). Since I'm playing the Game on normal that means the AI is getting hardly any bonuses/handicaps. The CAI is similar to empire except for a couple of things

1- It retreats in campaign map - It will now withdrawal into a city or retreat from your lands if you attack it with an overwhelming force (like it did in Rome). It will however never retreat in a battle, and will still send every last unit against you in a battle, so you end up shooting and routing the same regiment 2x. This is going to need to be fixed since the AI will destroy it's own army in a losing battle.
***EDIT*** Actually just saw the enemy retreat off the field, 4 non injured regiments left the field after a mass route, so the AI is able to retreat units and save them rather then waste them all in a losing battle.


2- If there is no garrison, a city will surrender almost 100% of the time. It seems like cities surrender more now when you have overwhelming odds unlike Empire.

3- AI is handling it's armies better, this could be cause of the smaller maps or the new gameplay mechanics. I have seen AI group forces together to make full stack armies and not just lull around their capitols waiting for you to attack. The AI also heals it's troops better but that's probably due to the new attrition system (I like it much better then Empire).

4- It doesn't send raider units every turn annoying the hell out of you. I have yet to see a 1 artillery unit raider, now when it raids, it's almost always a decent force of 4-5 troops.

Overall the CAI is improved with a mixture of gameplay changes(smaller maps/supply system) and actual AI changes (keeping bigger stacks/less raiding more invading)




The thing that bugs me is before I believed CA just wasn't capable of making a BAI that wouldn't crisscross it's line. Now that CA has proven it can do this, it makes me wonder why Empire still suffers this problem, it also makes me a little angry that NTW isn't an expansion and could fix Empire cause the problem with NTW is that the battles work but the campaign is very linear, Empire has the better campaign but the battles are pointless. I'm hoping the BAI patch fixes Empire's AI so we can really compare the 2 cause right now NTW automatically comes off as 4x better just cause it doesn't suffer the blobbing issues, even on city maps and other terrain where the Empire pathfinding would fail at.


Ideally I wish CA would just update Empire to the Napoleon engine so everyone can benefit from better performance/AI (wouldn't have the fancy smoke or graphics). At least we know that CA is capable of fixing the issue now and I have much bigger expectations for the AI melee bug/blobbing fix.

[Blofeld2k]

Thx for the report Nova.

2- If there is no garrison, a city will surrender almost 100% of the time. It seems like cities surrender more now when you have overwhelming odds unlike Empire.

Actually I get a lot of surrenders in ETW nowadays, but it has to be my full stack vs. garrison.

3- AI is handling it's armies better, this could be cause of the smaller maps or the new gameplay mechanics. I have seen AI group forces together to make full stack armies and not just lull around their capitols waiting for you to attack. The AI also heals it's troops better but that's probably due to the new attrition system (I like it much better then Empire).

I believe this is may be due to the fact that there are fewer options to the AI this time around, it is basically 1 vs 1 with France on one side and coalition on the other.

The new unit bahavior of units firing even when not fully formed, unlike in Empire where you have to wait for EVERY SINGLE UNIT to line up for them to fire, now only the front line needs to be formed to fire.

This is because they removed fire by rank, Lusted explained that the reason they did so was partly because of historical reasons but also, and this is why I think they mainly did it, so that not every soldier had to be in perfect line to be able to fire. So they removed a feature to gain another.

[Lord Nova]

This is because they removed fire by rank, Lusted explained that the reason they did so was partly because of historical reasons but also, and this is why I think they mainly did it, so that not every soldier had to be in perfect line to be able to fire. So they removed a feature to gain another.

That might be the case but even units who didn't ever use fire by rank in Empire would require the entire unit to reform before shooting. Now units will shoot even when lightly formed and much sooner. Square formation is terrific now as well since every unit fires independently (as fast as they can reload, just like a line). So I believe they fixed the behaviors to allow units to behave more independent from one another. I'm hoping that fire by rank is still in the code somewhere for future mods and benefits from the quicker unit reactions.

An example is now after a melee and the enemy routes.

In empire, your line infantry would reform the line and shoot

In Napoleon, your line infantry will shoot where they stand, then reform the line

[TheFra]

I really wanted NTW to be a good game because ultimately it means I'll get a lot more enjoyment out of the series if CA can learn from Empire.

However I'm still pretty pissed off about Empire and the fact that I’ve barely got past 20 turns in almost all my games due to various bugs. I can’t think of many games that actually get worse with the latest video drivers and the fact that it forces me to have drivers over a year old really irritates me. Why is this still an issue?

I could probably forgive a lot of the problems if it weren’t for the fact that that a new game, fixing many of the issues I've seen, was released barely a year later. For me thats a massive slap in the face and its really hard to not feel angry about it.

For these reasons I won’t be buying NTW in the foreseeable future, although I won’t say never. It’s been hard, even just a few days after release, but the only effective way to express dissatisfaction with the situation is through your wallet. Nothing else is ever going to work.

[Inhuman One]

Is the very limited number of present factions not making the campaigns very dull? and must the first two campaigns be played before the grand campaign is available? And is france the only playable faction in these campaigns?

And what about the Dutch? are they playable? are they a minor faction? do they have unique units?

And the unit editor? just how does that work?

[Jihada]

Hellas you didn't mention that there is no rank fire in NTW ,apparently only front rank can fire.This would negate British historical fire superiority and give no advantage to their line tactics. Craters in the ground is nonsense anyway, this isn't WW1.I'll be staying with darthmod until someone mods NTW.

[Lord Nova]

I would also like to add that there seems to be a number of improvements to gameplay that help the BAI out too.

For example

The new unit bahavior of units firing even when not fully formed, unlike in Empire where you have to wait for EVERY SINGLE UNIT to line up for them to fire, now only the front line needs to be formed to fire.

Unit behavior overall is much more independent which leads to less babysitting, Artillery now deselects routing units and doesn't automatically attack enemy artillery. Now artillery has much better threat detection when engaging targets on autofire.

Units will not fire as often if other friendly units are in the way, this means you can put infantry behind cannon, and only the infantry in the open gaps of the cannon will fire, in other words friendly fire incidents are less likely. This benefits the AI cause now if it does have units in front of other units or crisscorssing it won't kill it's own friendlies.

Those gameplay mechanic fixes no doubt has also improved the AI's use of these units.

[Humble Warrior]

Dissenters: Unite and rally under my review banner 'cause I'm not B.S. 'in anyone.

I ACTUALLY purchased NTW, considering that it is the "full" version of what ETW should have been IMHPO & I wanted to play this for myself and report to you folks if I was a fool or not for buying it.

I took a hit for you folks in a sense by doing so! So don't slam me for buying NTW.



.

I`m beginning to hear this reason from more and more people who so ranted against CA and then- bought the game like on day of release or within a few days. I expected Forlorn Hope to buy cos he said ages ago he would to review, but now all the `nayseyers` are doing it.

Kinda disappointed really. Still, it`s your decision, but maybe next time don`t rant against SEGA\CA so much if you can`t do the walk.

Guess I`m going to be only one left on the sinking ship, but that`s me. I am the sort of guy who`d be left at the post holding off the horde while everyone else who were going to `stand and fight` ran away when it came to the crunch. Enjoy your game.

That`s ok though. I`m not giving SEGA\CA one penny in this early release stage. I have seen no ETW BAI patch and I know it`s in the early months that they want their profit.

I paid for NTW full price when I bought ETW less than a year ago. Damned if I`m going to pay SEGA\CA again for their mistake.

[irish437]

I`m beginning to hear this reason from more and more people who so ranted against CA and then- bought the game like on day of release or within a few days. I expected Forlorn Hope to buy cos he said ages ago he would to review, but now all the `nayseyers` are doing it.

Kinda disappointed really. Still, it`s your decision, but maybe next time don`t rant against SEGA\CA so much if you can`t do the walk.

Guess I`m going to be only one left on the sinking ship, but that`s me. I am the sort of guy who`d be left at the post holding off the horde while everyone else who were going to `stand and fight` ran away when it came to the crunch. Enjoy your game.

That`s ok though. I`m not giving SEGA\CA one penny in this early release stage. I have seen no ETW BAI patch and I know it`s in the early months that they want their profit.

I paid for NTW full price when I bought ETW less than a year ago. Damned if I`m going to pay SEGA\CA again for their mistake.

Well I said a few months ago that I was going to buy NTW. $40 isn't that much to me and I am sure I'll get $40 worth of entertainment out of it.

Thats been my whole contention all along. Its not that I didn't think that I got a decent amount of playing time out of ETW, its just that the game could have been so much better. Throw in the silly ruses, pranks, and flat out lies by the CA team and its enough to make you want to punch a wall.

Personally, I think after the love fest for NTW wears off, people are going to realize that the AI artillery will often be left by its lonesome, shooting into the sides of a hill, Napoleon abandons his army and charges headlong into cannister shot(afterall why wouldn't he, you can't actually kill Napoleon or the Ghost of Christmas past for that matter), and soldiers produce dust even when walking through a shallow river bed. There will be a lundry list of other problems too. But.....The game is still challenging.

That said, I like the global feel of ETW better and its my game of preference. SO I still intend to hold CA accountable for the PROMISED Empire BAI fix.

Once again, dollar to dollar, I get my money's worth out of these games. Afterall, its just the cost of a round of golf or a decent steak and a few pints. The problem lies with the fact that CA simply doesn't strive for excellence and their PR shenanigans are ridiculous.

So keep up the fight and hopefully CA fixes everything.

[Centurion Legio IX Hispana]

I`m beginning to hear this reason from more and more people who so ranted against CA and then- bought the game like on day of release or within a few days. I expected Forlorn Hope to buy cos he said ages ago he would to review, but now all the `nayseyers` are doing it.

Kinda disappointed really. Still, it`s your decision, but maybe next time don`t rant against SEGA\CA so much if you can`t do the walk.

Guess I`m going to be only one left on the sinking ship, but that`s me. I am the sort of guy who`d be left at the post holding off the horde while everyone else who were going to `stand and fight` ran away when it came to the crunch. Enjoy your game.

That`s ok though. I`m not giving SEGA\CA one penny in this early release stage. I have seen no ETW BAI patch and I know it`s in the early months that they want their profit.

I paid for NTW full price when I bought ETW less than a year ago. Damned if I`m going to pay SEGA\CA again for their mistake.

Well buddy, you are not alone in this fight. I haven't bought NTW yet. So don't give up. Anyway I must admit that NTW is much better than ETW, based on the TWC members reviews.

I believe this is may be due to the fact that there are fewer options to the AI this time around, it is basically 1 vs 1 with France on one side and coalition on the other.

Well I must contradict you on this one. I don't think it has anything to do with the AI having fewer options. The fact is that they have improved the AI, and that's it. In the ETW the AI sucked because it was poorly scripted, I think that the options haven't changed that much (there are fewer factions, but it's not All vs France).

[Blofeld2k]

Come on Humble, you know you're not alone. I welcome the initiative from hellas to get a view from one of the nay sayers. If only the people who liked ETW buys NTW how will the community reviews look like? Not saying I will buy the game, just that it is nice to hear from someone who doesn't say it is good just to win a discussion.

[Tango12345]

Killrates per volley are much higher due to Rifles. There are some Musket units in Italy campaign but for the most part everyone is using Rifles which explains the new range/effectiveness. Frontal assaults are now suicide where as they would be more effective in musket era.

Typical historical accuracy from CA-rifles were never used in large numbers during the napoleonic wars-I think it was the British who used the most-with two light regiments having them as standard issue. (Royal American rifles and the 95th)

They were more expensive than muskets, and Napoleon himself didn't like them much.

[hellas1]

Hello all,

I'd like to address WHY I bought NTW.

First, I was EXTREMELY hesitant at buying it.
I thought "CA just boned me with ETW and no BAI fix yet."

Second, I thought "Well, I can buy it and return it IF it sucks"
NTW doesn't suck. It's what ETW should have been.

Third, I thought "These folks in the community SHOULD get a review from
somebody who is still pissed off at a F'd up ETW and it's half bakedness."

Fourth, I thought "Alright CA, I'm giving you ONE chance to correct yourselves,
and YOU better not bone me ever again."

BTW, I'm still pushing and posting on the official forums re. ETW's BAI fix and other aggregated fixes which would make ETW actually playable with the Fire and Advance button being enabled and make sieges more realistic. If you don't believe me, read my thread there.

Do you ACTUALLY think that I forgot about ETW's cost & problems that it still has? B.S.

Finally, I DO believe that the Napoleonic era should have been configured as a stand alone product with its' napoleonic era specifics. The Napoleonic era should be addressed by itself.

Sorry if you don't agree with me.

That's it,
hellas1

[Abspara]

Nice review, but I'm not buying the game. I still feel ripped off with ETW and I'm not about to give a company my money who wronged me.

[EmperorJulian]

I'm still not planning to get NTW myself. Frankly, there's just no reason to do so. The game is pricey, the campaign is limited and modding potential is entirely unknown at this point. I suppose if I -just- cared about battles, it might be a different story, but I'm really a grand campaign kind of guy, and I just don't see how 7 years of Napoleon running around is sufficient to hold my interest. Plus, I don't like the "story" style RTI campaign format anyway.

That said, I do think alot of the stuff I've heard is interesting/encouraging, for now. I remember when Oblivion came out in 2006, the hype and jubilation was such that it was impossible to convince anyone that it had a single flaw. In fact, it took months for the reality of the games shallowness and irritating design to come to light. Of course NTW is no where near as complex as an Elder Scrolls release, but I'm still convinced that you can't really trust the "wow!" factor when it comes to early reports of games performance. For me, I'll give it four weeks, and then I'll see what people are saying about this game, and surely it will be a better indication of what is and isn't good about it then what we have now. Of course it wont make NTW more appealing to me, per se, but at least then I'll know if these initial good reports are actually, you know, not chimeral.

Here's hoping there's some additional work done on ETW, CA could benefit from building some goodwill up with its fanbase again. That would go along way to convincing me (and others) that it's going to be worth it, in the long haul, to keep investing in their games. Or, in the case of NTW, reducing the price by about half. At any rate, like I said, I'm cautiously optimistic about the improvements, let's see where they go.

[Reiver]

How is the phsycic AI? Is it still forming line at the very extremity of your shot range? Reacting to your clicks before your units even start to move?

[[GG]Rechen]

How is the phsycic AI? Is it still forming line at the very extremity of your shot range? Reacting to your clicks before your units even start to move?

Yup, unfortunately, the AI still has its' magic "know-it-all" powers. Played the Italian campaign yesterday and the enemy properly advanced in a line-firmation against my position. When they came almost to shrapnel-shot-range, I ordered my artillery to hold fire, so they would reload and be ready to shrapnel the enemy line to pieces once they would come in range. Still kept round shot acticated though.
Well, enemy walks into range, but in the very moment I switch the ammunition, the enemy line instantly turns around, runs out of range and reforms. I repeated this procedure about 4 times, *sighed*, gave up and advanced on them with my infantry.

Another example: enemy holding a good position, raining artillery on me. Under heavy fire, I moved my artillery into a reasonable firing position to get a shot at the enemy general. Guess what, the very microsecond I clicked on the enemy general, he started running. *sigh* OK, so I command hold fire, enemy general moves back into the old spot. I command fire 1m in front of him, this time he doesn't move, because I didn't click *on* him, bang, hit.

It bothers me this is still in the game, but my overall impression of the game is good and I really appreciate the many improvements. The best thing for me is: it didn't crash... yet. The constant crashing was what ruined ETW for me in the first months.