SS pikeniers useless

**PlautusLeo** · February 24, 2010, 03:41 PM

-useless

equal for spearmen

every ap(antipanzer)-unit is better than spearmen/pikeniers

**Lemming69** · February 24, 2010, 03:51 PM

is there a particular unit which you find to be too strong against the spearmen/pikemen? -when you say antipanzer- do you mean heavy infantry like knights?

**DeliCiousTZM** · February 24, 2010, 04:20 PM

Yeah okay buddy i suggest u try Noble pikes vs Chiv knights and then try macemen vs chiv knights tell me how it goes yeah..

**Point Blank** · February 24, 2010, 06:10 PM

Define 'useless'. Pikes were meant primarily to stop cavalry charges. If heavy horse got among them, or hit them in the flank, they were quite vulnerable.

**JohnDoe5x5** · February 24, 2010, 06:31 PM

Your 'anti-panzer' guys will be dead after the charge(s). They are great only if you can pin down their heavy cav. Your only hope on stopping them are long spears. Of course, vs. something like lancers, all your scots pike militia will die instantly, but noble scot pikes can actually deal with them with decent casualties as long as you don't let them charge the second time. And this is the case for some of the best cavalry in the game. Worse cav can be handled by average pikes.

Let them charge the spears and flank them with anti-panzers or your own cav.

**Concrete** · February 24, 2010, 09:36 PM

Do archers suck because they get killed in close combat too?
Pikemen are a purely directional unit only.

**Point Blank** · February 24, 2010, 11:17 PM

totally right

**RyuNoKami** · February 24, 2010, 11:29 PM

i think people want a master of all trades unit. you can always edit the damn file. hahahaha.....ridiculously overpowered peasant charges!

**JorisofHolland** · February 25, 2010, 04:46 AM

I totally disagree with you, but before I say anything else: are you using 6.1/6.2/submods?

**Point Blank** · February 25, 2010, 05:15 AM

Try a properly-handled pike-and-shot + heavy cavalry army vs an early medieval army, it will win with ease.

**PlautusLeo** · February 25, 2010, 01:59 PM

even these late pikeniers cant handle late cav. So whats the point of this new unit?
Halberds do a better job to stop the enemies cav charge.
You better put pikeniers and speramen out!

**PlautusLeo** · February 25, 2010, 02:14 PM

Point Blank, 1on1 with me???
Lets see if you know what you talk.
If you hesitate, well then it is obvious you dont know what you talk

**Point Blank** · February 25, 2010, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by PlautusLeo

Point Blank, 1on1 with me???
Lets see if you know what you talk.
If you hesitate, well then it is obvious you dont know what you talk

Pikes stop the charge, but in melee vs heavy cav are not ideal. Late heavy horse armor could stop a pike thrust. The real cavalry killers are polearms, which should be committed to combat once the enemy cav has been halted by the pikes. Beating late-era heavy cav is a combined-arms task.

I don't need to prove that I 'know what I talk', my information is based of historical sources and common sense. A little thought on your behalf will hopefully help you to agree with me.

**JorisofHolland** · February 25, 2010, 02:18 PM

I dislike that your arrogant (wheter or not it's intended) so I'm going to prove you're wrong.

**Stilgar CG** · February 25, 2010, 02:35 PM

As long as pikemen do not loose formation they can take care of themselves against most infantry and cavalry. Individual pikemen units are not that useful indeed: they are slow and need time to reform the formation (althoug they are still pretty useful in street fighting). They die pretty fast when caught on the move or when they loose the formation.

Anyway, I commonly employ a line of pikemen (5-8 units) in 5-6 ranks deep to agreat effect. Give these guys some experience and armour (and a good general) and they can stand their ground against any kind of infantry and most of the cavalry. Maneuvering such a line of pikemen needs a bit of practice, but it definetely can become a relatively inexpensive and quite effective backbone of a large army. A unit or two of haberdiers (or heavy infantry) behind pikemen line would not hurt, I guess, to fill the gaps made by heavy cavalry charges.

For example, in my French campaign I went for an easy crusade against Moors (took a settlement in Iberian peninsula somewhere). I took 6 pikemen units on crusade with me. At the end of the crusade all units received 2 chevrons of experience (as a present from Pope). I gave the pikemen some armour and they are on their way to HRE border now

**Point Blank** · February 25, 2010, 02:40 PM

Right! Used correctly they are extremely valuable. Its all down to the tactics and force match-ups. which is what makes this game interesting.

**Awellesley** · February 25, 2010, 04:06 PM

PlautusLeo is just trying to be difficult and by continuing this thread, we are playing into his hands. A legitimate discussion of tactics and units you will not find here. I think its best if we let this thread die.

**Caesar Clivus** · February 25, 2010, 04:18 PM

Originally Posted by Awellesley

PlautusLeo is just trying to be difficult and by continuing this thread, we are playing into his hands. A legitimate discussion of tactics and units you will not find here. I think its best if we let this thread die.

I'll go you one better and kill it directly. Locked