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Thread: US government posioned alcohol during Prohibition

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  1. #1
    Count of Montesano's Avatar Civitate
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    Default US government posioned alcohol during Prohibition

    Interesting article on how the US federal government indirectly killed an estimated 10,000 people during prohibition by poisoning bootleg liquor. Before this sounds too much like a crazy conspiracy theory, I should point out that US agents didn't go around slipping cyanide directly into stills. What the government did instead was to force ndustrial alcohol makers to add toxic agents to their products. Unfortunately, this move could be seen gross negligence as bootleggers still stole the alcohol and turned it into cheap liquor. Even as hundreds of people were dying, the government didn't change it's position because the program was seen as an important part of waging a war on bootleggers.

    Excerpts from the article:

    Industrial alcohol is basically grain alcohol with some unpleasant chemicals mixed in to render it undrinkable. The U.S. government started requiring this "denaturing" process in 1906 for manufacturers who wanted to avoid the taxes levied on potable spirits. The U.S. Treasury Department, charged with overseeing alcohol enforcement, estimated that by the mid-1920s, some 60 million gallons of industrial alcohol were stolen annually to supply the country's drinkers. In response, in 1926, President Calvin Coolidge's government decided to turn to chemistry as an enforcement tool. Some 70 denaturing formulas existed by the 1920s. Most simply added poisonous methyl alcohol into the mix. Others used bitter-tasting compounds that were less lethal, designed to make the alcohol taste so awful that it became undrinkable.

    To sell the stolen industrial alcohol, the liquor syndicates employed chemists to "renature" the products, returning them to a drinkable state. The bootleggers paid their chemists a lot more than the government did, and they excelled at their job. Stolen and redistilled alcohol became the primary source of liquor in the country. So federal officials ordered manufacturers to make their products far more deadly.

    By mid-1927, the new denaturing formulas included some notable poisons—kerosene and brucine (a plant alkaloid closely related to strychnine), gasoline, benzene, cadmium, iodine, zinc, mercury salts, nicotine, ether, formaldehyde, chloroform, camphor, carbolic acid, quinine, and acetone. The Treasury Department also demanded more methyl alcohol be added—up to 10 percent of total product. It was the last that proved most deadly.

    The results were immediate, starting with that horrific holiday body count in the closing days of 1926. Public health officials responded with shock. "The government knows it is not stopping drinking by putting poison in alcohol," New York City medical examiner Charles Norris said at a hastily organized press conference. "[Y]et it continues its poisoning processes, heedless of the fact that people determined to drink are daily absorbing that poison. Knowing this to be true, the United States government must be charged with the moral responsibility for the deaths that poisoned liquor causes, although it cannot be held legally responsible."
    http://www.slate.com/id/2245188/

  2. #2
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: US government posioned alcohol during Prohibition

    You what's amazing is almost everyone can look back know a see what a silly and just plane dumb prohibition was, but (to take a bit of editorial quoted in the article) " It is only in the curious fanaticism of Prohibition" that fanaticism is still alive keeps us wasting time and effort to win a war against drugs, prostitution and gambling which are all just as stupid prohibitions.
    Last edited by conon394; February 24, 2010 at 10:28 AM.
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    Lonck's Avatar Centenarius
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    Default Re: US government posioned alcohol during Prohibition

    crazy conservatives will do anything and everything to get their way.

  4. #4

    Default Re: US government posioned alcohol during Prohibition

    Quote Originally Posted by Lonck View Post
    crazy conservatives will do anything and everything to get their way.
    Conservatives were not the ones pushing prohibition. I know it's fun if your a liberal european to look at America and blame all of our problems on Conservatives, but the liberals are responsible for just as many of our ills.


    BTW- people are still moon shining and the govt is still out there prosecuting them. My uncle was a BATFE agent who would go out and bust these backwoods distilleries that produced dangerous moonshine. So yea, people still do it and there is alot of money to be made in doing it.
    Last edited by Gelgoog; March 02, 2010 at 03:26 PM.

  5. #5
    alhoon's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: US government posioned alcohol during Prohibition

    Hey... alcohol is still made toxic with color etc so that you can't use it to make drinks. If you want to make drinks, you have to buy the clean thing which is much, much more costly.
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    Bleda's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: US government posioned alcohol during Prohibition

    Quote Originally Posted by Count of Montesano View Post
    Interesting article on how the US federal government indirectly killed an estimated 10,000 people during prohibition by poisoning bootleg liquor. Before this sounds too much like a crazy conspiracy theory, I should point out that US agents didn't go around slipping cyanide directly into stills. What the government did instead was to force ndustrial alcohol makers to add toxic agents to their products. Unfortunately, this move could be seen gross negligence as bootleggers still stole the alcohol and turned it into cheap liquor. Even as hundreds of people were dying, the government didn't change it's position because the program was seen as an important part of waging a war on bootleggers.

    Excerpts from the article:



    http://www.slate.com/id/2245188/
    You're forgetting that those who made alcohol for consumption, did so on the black market. The fault of the government here is that by making alcohol consumption illegal the production of it was driven underground. The result is that purity laws and regulation on ingredients no longer apply.

    In fact, public misconceptions about the health hazards of absinthe are based on the very real fact that many batches of absinthe were made using mercury to enhance the hallucinogenic effects. If it were brought into the legal market, it could have been regulated the adverse health effects would have been resolved.

  7. #7
    Hotspur's Avatar I've got reach.
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    Default Re: US government posioned alcohol during Prohibition

    Wait, so if the government outlaws something but you do it anyway and die, it's the government's fault?

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    Bleda's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: US government posioned alcohol during Prohibition

    Quote Originally Posted by Hotspur View Post
    Wait, so if the government outlaws something but you do it anyway and die, it's the government's fault?
    Wait, so you are denying the culpability of the government for prohibition related problems?

    If I put up a "no trespassing" sign in my yard and then lets say, to enforce that right, I line my yard with spike pits and landmines. When someone gets killed or injured, I am still liable for that death regardless of signage.

  9. #9
    Hotspur's Avatar I've got reach.
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    Default Re: US government posioned alcohol during Prohibition

    Quote Originally Posted by Bleda View Post
    Wait, so you are denying the culpability of the government for prohibition related problems?

    If I put up a "no trespassing" sign in my yard and then lets say, to enforce that right, I line my yard with spike pits and landmines. When someone gets killed or injured, I am still liable for that death regardless of signage.
    Analogy fail. If you steal something that's not supposed to be ingested, then drink it, then die, guess who's fault that is?

  10. #10

    Default Re: US government posioned alcohol during Prohibition

    Some moonshiners used used car radiators in the distilling process. That is just one fact which proves it wasn't the safest of alcohol in the first place.

  11. #11
    Bleda's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: US government posioned alcohol during Prohibition

    Quote Originally Posted by Hotspur View Post
    Analogy fail. If you steal something that's not supposed to be ingested, then drink it, then die, guess who's fault that is?
    The fail is strong with you. The moonshiner who put stuff in the alcohol that is toxic? The government for forfeiting the right to regulate? You for being so easily fooled?

    If you STEAL something that is not supposed to be ingested? Whats been stolen? Its a matter of prohibition not theft

    If the government declares transfat to be illegal. Then as a result, those who produce transfat do so illegally and with the FDA no longer breathing down their neck, they start putting toxic agents in the transfat to make it taste better. Then the transfat kills people. Is it not the government's fault for forfeiting the regulatory powers? Is it not the producer's fault for poisoning the consumer?

    If I sell someone a bag of coke, that is laced with cyanide, I am still liable for that death even though coke is illegal. I can still be charged. In fact, I can be charged with distribution of cocaine if I sell you a bag of flower and tell you it's cocaine. The consumer is not held to liability even if the product is illegal.

    Just because the government tells you to do something, doesn't mean you should listen. People who do are called "tools". But I'm sure you know that.

    Quote Originally Posted by roy34543 View Post
    Nonsense. Theres nothing stopping people from selling unregulated alchohol even when its legal, it just means that unregulated alchohol is easier to spot when its easy to get the "legal safe thing"
    But if for some reason there were a demand for black-market alchohol that (No idea why, maybe illegal chemicals or no taxes) and it was created in huge supplies by millions of people it would be just as hard for the government to stop.
    And today, which has a bigger market share? Illegal or legal? Is the vast amount of alcohol made, regulated or unregulated? The only nonsense is your argument.
    Last edited by Bleda; March 02, 2010 at 08:11 AM.

  12. #12
    Hotspur's Avatar I've got reach.
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    Default Re: US government posioned alcohol during Prohibition

    Quote Originally Posted by Bleda View Post
    If you STEAL something that is not supposed to be ingested? Whats been stolen? Its a matter of prohibition not theft
    From the OP:

    "...by the mid-1920s, some 60 million gallons of industrial alcohol were stolen annually..."
    "To sell the stolen industrial alcohol..."

    I reckon it was an unreasonable expectation that someone would actually read the OP before shouting "GOVERNMENT IS TEH EVIL!!!11!ONE".

    People who do are called "tools". But I'm sure you know that.
    Oh, I am quite adept at recognizing tools.

  13. #13

    Default Re: US government posioned alcohol during Prohibition

    I don't think it was the government. Moonshiners were using spotty ingredients in their brews resulting in a poisonous cocktail.

  14. #14
    Bleda's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: US government posioned alcohol during Prohibition

    Quote Originally Posted by Pøntifex View Post
    I don't think it was the government. Moonshiners were using spotty ingredients in their brews resulting in a poisonous cocktail.
    thank you! this is the result of the government forfeiting its right to regulate when they outlaw the product. thus the government...is...to...blame.

  15. #15

    Default Re: US government posioned alcohol during Prohibition

    Quote Originally Posted by Bleda View Post
    thank you! this is the result of the government forfeiting its right to regulate when they outlaw the product. thus the government...is...to...blame.
    Nonsense. Theres nothing stopping people from selling unregulated alchohol even when its legal, it just means that unregulated alchohol is easier to spot when its easy to get the "legal safe thing"
    But if for some reason there were a demand for black-market alchohol that (No idea why, maybe illegal chemicals or no taxes) and it was created in huge supplies by millions of people it would be just as hard for the government to stop.
    "If you can't get rid of the skeleton in your closet, you'd best teach it to dance." - George Bernard Shaw (1856-1950)

  16. #16

    Default Re: US government posioned alcohol during Prohibition

    Quote Originally Posted by Bleda View Post
    thank you! this is the result of the government forfeiting its right to regulate when they outlaw the product. thus the government...is...to...blame.
    That doesn't logically follow.
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  17. #17
    JP226's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: US government posioned alcohol during Prohibition

    The industrial stuff is still poisoned to this day. I imagine it's like that in a number of countries.
    Sure I've been called a xenophobe, but the truth is Im not. I honestly feel that America is the best country and all other countries aren't as good. That used to be called patriotism.

  18. #18

    Default Re: US government posioned alcohol during Prohibition

    And today, which has a bigger market share? Illegal or legal? Is the vast amount of alcohol made, regulated or unregulated? The only nonsense is your argument
    The government can only throw caution to the wind and hope what they try has the expected results.
    Thats not neccasarily what will happen.
    Therefore the argument about the government "gaining" responsibility by forfeiting the right to regulate alchohol is ridicolous, unregulated alchohol still exists, the government can just hope that legalizing it will help dimnish the market for it, it doesnt mean that will be the case.
    In other words, if it was sloppy bootlegging that killed people , once alchohol is legalized, Illegal bootlegging still "exists" it just doesnt neccasarily mean theres a demand for it .
    So blaming the government once again whenever a bootlegger kills someone is moronic, Individuals shouldnt trust unreliable sources, its that simple. The government has various states of legaslation (from none, to "gray" Limited , illegal and legal ) and its ridicolous to assume that it inherits moral responsibility from other peoples actions. If the alchohol market was somehow 1% legal and 99% illegal other then the other way around you would see what I mean.

    On the other hand, the initial article about the government indirectly killing people by legaslating that industrial alchohol must have poisonous material in it is an example of the government inheriting moral responsibility , because it legaslated something directly.
    "If you can't get rid of the skeleton in your closet, you'd best teach it to dance." - George Bernard Shaw (1856-1950)

  19. #19

    Default Re: US government posioned alcohol during Prohibition

    Prohibition was largely the result of a fervent and organized religious revival in the late 1800's/early 1900's. So the biggest fault lies with Jesus.

  20. #20

    Default Re: US government posioned alcohol during Prohibition

    Jesus the wine-drinking Jew Jesus?
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