Battle mechanics much better

Spent most of the evening playing NTW and I must say it is a very well done improvement over what Empire was. I'm not going to get into talking about the campaign. I will just say they are ALOT of fun and the campaign map looks amazing. The detail on the map is insane.

The main purpose of this thread is to say the mechanics of the battles themselves is much better. The AI is decent. There isn't the melee blob like before. They still charge home here and there, but there is alot more musket exchanges. Cavalry no longer sits in one place and lets musketeers take shots at them. One battle they circled around a line of infantry waiting for an opening.

The line infantry act much better and are way easier to control. They fire on angles so there is no more endless shuffling as a line tries to position itself to an enemy. The line fires right away and doesn't wait for 1 or 2 soldiers to load their weapons. Also when a line turns it does so much fluidly, not like in Empire when they would get all messed up and shuffle back and forth. It almost feels like controlling melee units in MTW2. They keep their line but move with ease. A big improvement there.

Besides the mechanics, the little stuff like craters from cannon, riders getting knocked off horse, no more clones, waving flags, chatter, drums and fife, smoke, cannons shaking the screen all add ALOT to the battles.

What about fort battles and settlement battles? They were the worst types in Empire. Have they improved too?

Hi

Could you give us your initial impressions in regards to campaign map lag (if it exists) and what you've found 'end of turn' times to be like...

Was a supposed memory leak issue in ETW which meant quite a lot of peoples campaigns slowed right down when ending turns. Hopefully something they have overcome in NTW

Originally Posted by Zhuge_Liang

What about fort battles and settlement battles? They were the worst types in Empire. Have they improved too?

i have yet to see a fort battle. there isnt alot of forts as far as I can see. Then again I have been playing as Russia so I havent pushed to far into central Europe yet.

Settlement battles are similar to Empire in that you are on the outskirts of the city and there is some buildings around. it is much easier to control, as I said above the infantry move better, so if you find yourself on the street your units will just fire. they wont worry about forming a proper line. i assume the same will be with fort battles.

the main improvement is the way infantry fire. they just fire. they dont worry about being perfect like in Empire where it would take 20 seconds for the unit to position itself. that improvement alone makes settlement battles, and I assume siege battles much better.

Originally Posted by GTFO. Jamie

Hi

Could you give us your initial impressions in regards to campaign map lag (if it exists) and what you've found 'end of turn' times to be like...

Was a supposed memory leak issue in ETW which meant quite a lot of peoples campaigns slowed right down when ending turns. Hopefully something they have overcome in NTW

No lag on the map, which is suprising as it is quite a bit more detailed and advanced. keep in mind that when it comes to map lag, it really depends on the computer. but so far i have had none.

turns are very quick. average turn so far is like 10 seconds. you have to remember there isnt as many factions and the map is smaller. all which lead to shorter turns.

In the settlement battles if the AI was defending they tended to stick to a plan and stand there until you attacked, does this till happen? Also - for when you play a fort battle - I presume they don't just banzai to the centre square like in Empire?

Originally Posted by Zhuge_Liang

In the settlement battles if the AI was defending they tended to stick to a plan and stand there until you attacked, does this till happen? Also - for when you play a fort battle - I presume they don't just banzai to the centre square like in Empire?

the settlement battles i fought in both armies were outside the town. when the battle started half the AI force marched around the town to engage me while the other half went into the town to secure the buildings.

i have yet to see a fort battle. like i said they seem rare on the map, but I have yet to see inside France.

keep in mind these are just first impressions after an evening of playing 7-8 battles in my campaigns. the AI is decent, but my thread is more speaking to how much easier it is to control your army. and in turn the AI controls his better.

Some testers short before release saw the melee bug and Kieran said, that CA will patch this after release. It's seems CA use same AI for N:TW as Empire. Now you talk about completly different feeling.

Are you happy about new game or are N:TW got a patch?

It will need a patch, there are already a few annoying looking bugs in the bug thread. Also there appears to be no fire by rank.

the AI is similar to Empire, but because of the new mechanics of the way the units move, it comes across much better. Part of the major problem with Empire's battle AI was the way the lines moved and got out of position. then they would shuffle and reposition. in NTW this seems to be improved quite a bit.

I am very happy with NTW so far. but that is just my opinion.

Originally Posted by Zhuge_Liang

It will need a patch, there are already a few annoying looking bugs in the bug thread. Also there appears to be no fire by rank.

there is no fire by rank. and i dont want it back! the days of waiting for one soldier to load his musket so the whole unit can fire are over!

Hmmm, some of the battle AI was beyond description in Empire though - especially in settlement battles, units stayed facing the wrong way and let whole portions of their army get destroyed without moving. I'll have to keep an eye out for CAI and BAI reports.

EDIT

Fire by rank was excellent, the idea of up to 7 ranks standing waiting for the front rank to die annoys me. With the improvements you mention fire-by-rank ought to have been even better in Napoleon.

Originally Posted by Zhuge_Liang

Hmmm, some of the battle AI was beyond description in Empire though - especially in settlement battles, units stayed facing the wrong way and let whole portions of their army get destroyed without moving. I'll have to keep an eye out for CAI and BAI reports.

EDIT

Fire by rank was excellent, the idea of up to 7 ranks standing waiting for the front rank to die annoys me. With the improvements you mention fire-by-rank ought to have been even better in Napoleon.

This here is the official response from Jack Lusted

"Fire by rank isn't in Napoleon for two reasons, one historical and one gameplay. The historical one is that fire by rank wasn't really used in Napoleonic times apart from perhaps on the parade ground.

The gameplay reason is that we've made a lot of improvements to the responsiveness of units in Napoleon. Soldiers get into position quicker, go from being in position to firing quicker, and soldiers in a unit can fire before whole unit has stopped moving. If we had kept firing drills from Empire, you would still hav to wait for all the soldiers in a unit to be in position before a unit could fire as all the firing drills require all the soldiers to be in place for a unit to fire.

The reload time of units has also decreased across the board so whilst the fact rank fire isn't included may seem like battles or kill rates have massively dropped, the reload time drop and unit reaction improvements all for a much more fluid battlefield and better gameplay."

Originally Posted by Greve Af Göteborg

This here is the official response from Jack Lusted

"Fire by rank isn't in Napoleon for two reasons, one historical and one gameplay. The historical one is that fire by rank wasn't really used in Napoleonic times apart from perhaps on the parade ground.

The gameplay reason is that we've made a lot of improvements to the responsiveness of units in Napoleon. Soldiers get into position quicker, go from being in position to firing quicker, and soldiers in a unit can fire before whole unit has stopped moving. If we had kept firing drills from Empire, you would still hav to wait for all the soldiers in a unit to be in position before a unit could fire as all the firing drills require all the soldiers to be in place for a unit to fire.

The reload time of units has also decreased across the board so whilst the fact rank fire isn't included may seem like battles or kill rates have massively dropped, the reload time drop and unit reaction improvements all for a much more fluid battlefield and better gameplay."

Bah, don't quote Kieran, I can't stand propaganda. The improvements in Napoleon would have complimented it, and it was accurate to the time for more than the first rank to fire.

Originally Posted by Zhuge_Liang

Bah, don't quote Kieran, I can't stand propaganda. The improvements in Napoleon would have complimented it, and it was accurate to the time for more than the first rank to fire.

Read my post again

Can a unit fire in any state? I don't mind that a unit cannot fire if its strung out across the battlefield but I presume it must form some coherent formation before it can fire.

I would still like to know can units fire in any state, do they need to line up in some manner before they can fire or have they all become archers.

Originally Posted by Zhuge_Liang

Bah, don't quote Kieran, I can't stand propaganda. The improvements in Napoleon would have complimented it, and it was accurate to the time for more than the first rank to fire.

Kieran didn't say anything. He said Jack Lusted

And fire by rank SHOULD NOT be in NTW. No one used it, and it would ruin the beautiful way that firing now works in NTW

Originally Posted by gord96

Spent most of the evening playing NTW and I must say it is a very well done improvement over what Empire was. I'm not going to get into talking about the campaign. I will just say they are ALOT of fun and the campaign map looks amazing. The detail on the map is insane.

The main purpose of this thread is to say the mechanics of the battles themselves is much better. The AI is decent. There isn't the melee blob like before. They still charge home here and there, but there is alot more musket exchanges. Cavalry no longer sits in one place and lets musketeers take shots at them. One battle they circled around a line of infantry waiting for an opening.

The line infantry act much better and are way easier to control. They fire on angles so there is no more endless shuffling as a line tries to position itself to an enemy. The line fires right away and doesn't wait for 1 or 2 soldiers to load their weapons. Also when a line turns it does so much fluidly, not like in Empire when they would get all messed up and shuffle back and forth. It almost feels like controlling melee units in MTW2. They keep their line but move with ease. A big improvement there.

Besides the mechanics, the little stuff like craters from cannon, riders getting knocked off horse, no more clones, waving flags, chatter, drums and fife, smoke, cannons shaking the screen all add ALOT to the battles.

some question:
riders getting knocked off horse?if is possible this is very good and realistic for a good inmersion of battle,although is necessary the blood and dismemberment.
is the AI the best AI of all totalwar games?
the sound of muskets is better than in the empire?
the AI has a line of battle coordinated or attacked or defended without coordination and isolation?
There is variety of units and historical uniforms?
the generals are historical with his portraits and features historical?
the difficulty level influences for the AI play better or only to provide bonus?

Originally Posted by Anibal at portas

some question:
riders getting knocked off horse?if is possible this is very good and realistic for a good inmersion of battle,although is necessary the blood and dismemberment.
is the AI the best AI of all totalwar games?
the sound of muskets is better than in the empire?
the AI has a line of battle coordinated or attacked or defended without coordination and isolation?
There is variety of units and historical uniforms?
the generals are historical with his portraits and features historical?
the difficulty level influences for the AI play better or only to provide bonus?

yes riders get knock off horses. sometimes their feet get stuck in the stirrups and they get dragged along the ground. the AI is better in the campaign then Empire. Generals have historical portraits and models in the game.

Originally Posted by Modestus

I would still like to know can units fire in any state, do they need to line up in some manner before they can fire or have they all become archers.

they have to be in some sort of formation, but they move there very quick.

Originally Posted by Dain

Are there still fences and walls on the battlefield?

to tell you the truth i didnt notice any last night. maybe CA got rid of them?

Are there still fences and walls on the battlefield?

Originally Posted by gord96

to tell you the truth i didnt notice any last night. maybe CA got rid of them?

there are still walls and fences just not an over abundance of them like there were in Empire.The field has been made to be much more open in feel allowing for much better maneuver across the board.There are still obstacles,trees hills and chokepoints but as well there are plenty of expanses to allow for you to form proper line